1 00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:04,733 Hello everyone, and welcome to 2 00:00:04,733 --> 00:00:05,900 today's presentation 3 00:00:05,900 --> 00:00:07,600 of "Mandatory trademark 4 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,834 identity verification." 5 00:00:09,834 --> 00:00:10,467 We're going to be talking 6 00:00:10,467 --> 00:00:11,067 about this topic 7 00:00:11,067 --> 00:00:13,501 for a lot over the next 90 minutes. 8 00:00:13,501 --> 00:00:14,901 I'm Jason Lott, the attorney 9 00:00:14,901 --> 00:00:16,101 advisor for Trademarks 10 00:00:16,101 --> 00:00:18,468 Customer Outreach at the USPTO. 11 00:00:18,468 --> 00:00:20,168 And the great thing is that 12 00:00:20,168 --> 00:00:21,101 we are going to be joined today 13 00:00:21,101 --> 00:00:22,802 by two, actually, three 14 00:00:22,802 --> 00:00:23,935 experts in this field. 15 00:00:23,935 --> 00:00:24,635 So the information 16 00:00:24,635 --> 00:00:25,202 you're going to be learning 17 00:00:25,202 --> 00:00:27,035 today is going to be incredibly helpful 18 00:00:27,035 --> 00:00:28,735 in making sure you understand 19 00:00:28,735 --> 00:00:30,736 why we have mandatory 20 00:00:30,736 --> 00:00:32,636 ID verification and sort of 21 00:00:32,636 --> 00:00:34,536 how to go about it. 22 00:00:34,536 --> 00:00:35,569 So before we get started 23 00:00:35,569 --> 00:00:36,369 today, there are a couple 24 00:00:36,369 --> 00:00:37,336 of housekeeping tips 25 00:00:37,336 --> 00:00:39,436 that we do need to keep in mind. 26 00:00:39,436 --> 00:00:40,236 I know a lot of you 27 00:00:40,236 --> 00:00:41,136 are going to be wondering, 28 00:00:41,136 --> 00:00:43,137 "Is today's session being recorded?" 29 00:00:43,137 --> 00:00:45,037 And the answer is, "Yes. 30 00:00:45,037 --> 00:00:46,137 Yes, it is." 31 00:00:46,137 --> 00:00:47,637 Another question you're probably asking 32 00:00:47,637 --> 00:00:48,670 is, "Are the slides 33 00:00:48,670 --> 00:00:49,471 going to be available?" 34 00:00:49,471 --> 00:00:51,704 And the answer is, "Yes. Yes, they are." 35 00:00:52,271 --> 00:00:52,971 So you are going to 36 00:00:52,971 --> 00:00:54,438 be receiving an email 37 00:00:54,438 --> 00:00:57,005 from Eventbrite in about 90 minutes 38 00:00:57,471 --> 00:00:58,238 when this, when the 39 00:00:58,238 --> 00:01:00,138 webinar ends. In that email 40 00:01:00,138 --> 00:01:01,172 is going to be a link 41 00:01:01,172 --> 00:01:02,338 to today's slides 42 00:01:02,338 --> 00:01:03,739 so you can download 43 00:01:03,739 --> 00:01:06,005 a PDF of the slides that you see today. 44 00:01:06,505 --> 00:01:07,939 And also in that email 45 00:01:07,939 --> 00:01:09,939 is going to be a link to a survey. 46 00:01:09,939 --> 00:01:10,939 We always want to know 47 00:01:10,939 --> 00:01:11,839 what you're thinking 48 00:01:11,839 --> 00:01:13,273 and how you feel 49 00:01:13,273 --> 00:01:15,040 about the, our presentations. 50 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,640 And so that's an opportunity for you 51 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:17,673 to give us feedback, 52 00:01:17,673 --> 00:01:18,673 to tell us what worked 53 00:01:18,673 --> 00:01:19,607 and what didn't work. 54 00:01:19,607 --> 00:01:20,607 It's a very short 55 00:01:20,607 --> 00:01:22,774 survey, would really appreciate it 56 00:01:22,774 --> 00:01:24,807 if you take a few minutes 57 00:01:24,807 --> 00:01:25,474 to fill it out. 58 00:01:25,474 --> 00:01:27,141 We do look at every single 59 00:01:27,141 --> 00:01:29,207 survey result that comes in, 60 00:01:29,207 --> 00:01:30,574 so we want to know 61 00:01:30,574 --> 00:01:32,708 what you are thinking. 62 00:01:32,708 --> 00:01:35,041 So with regard to the recording 63 00:01:35,041 --> 00:01:36,841 of today's presentation, 64 00:01:36,841 --> 00:01:37,908 unfortunately it's not something 65 00:01:37,908 --> 00:01:40,008 that we can turn around super fast. 66 00:01:40,008 --> 00:01:41,108 However, we do our best 67 00:01:41,108 --> 00:01:41,809 to make sure that a 68 00:01:41,809 --> 00:01:43,242 recording is available 69 00:01:43,242 --> 00:01:44,875 in about three weeks. 70 00:01:44,875 --> 00:01:45,809 So we're going to be posting 71 00:01:45,809 --> 00:01:46,909 that on our website. 72 00:01:46,909 --> 00:01:49,176 It'll also go up on YouTube. 73 00:01:49,176 --> 00:01:50,709 But so you don't have to search for it, 74 00:01:50,709 --> 00:01:51,643 you are going to receive 75 00:01:51,643 --> 00:01:53,010 an email from Eventbrite 76 00:01:53,010 --> 00:01:54,143 when that recording 77 00:01:54,143 --> 00:01:55,743 is live on our site. 78 00:01:55,743 --> 00:01:57,243 So make sure that you are 79 00:01:57,243 --> 00:01:59,477 looking for emails from Eventbrite 80 00:01:59,477 --> 00:02:00,844 and coming into your inbox. 81 00:02:00,844 --> 00:02:02,544 Sometimes there are pretty aggressive 82 00:02:02,544 --> 00:02:03,944 email filters that treat 83 00:02:03,944 --> 00:02:05,911 Eventbrite emails as spam. 84 00:02:05,911 --> 00:02:07,944 So if you're not seeing something, 85 00:02:08,044 --> 00:02:09,378 make sure to check your junk folder 86 00:02:09,378 --> 00:02:10,411 because it's possible 87 00:02:10,411 --> 00:02:11,311 it will be in there. 88 00:02:12,411 --> 00:02:13,978 So if you are someone who needs 89 00:02:13,978 --> 00:02:14,978 or wants captioning, 90 00:02:14,978 --> 00:02:16,212 we do have live captioning 91 00:02:16,212 --> 00:02:17,112 available today. 92 00:02:17,112 --> 00:02:19,112 Just take a look in the Q&A section. 93 00:02:19,112 --> 00:02:20,012 You'll see an announcement 94 00:02:20,012 --> 00:02:21,345 there with a link. 95 00:02:21,345 --> 00:02:22,546 If you want to turn on captioning, 96 00:02:22,546 --> 00:02:23,579 just click on the link there 97 00:02:23,579 --> 00:02:25,379 and you should be good to go. 98 00:02:25,379 --> 00:02:26,846 That Q&A box is also 99 00:02:26,846 --> 00:02:27,146 where are you going 100 00:02:27,146 --> 00:02:28,913 to communicate with us today. 101 00:02:28,913 --> 00:02:30,613 So all you have to do, 102 00:02:30,613 --> 00:02:31,613 if you have a question for us, 103 00:02:31,613 --> 00:02:33,847 is pop your question into the Q&A box. 104 00:02:34,247 --> 00:02:35,713 We have several other experts 105 00:02:35,713 --> 00:02:37,047 who are on the line today 106 00:02:37,047 --> 00:02:37,580 who are going to be 107 00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:39,480 working the Q&A box. 108 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:40,314 If you, 109 00:02:40,614 --> 00:02:41,514 this is not a situation 110 00:02:41,514 --> 00:02:42,481 where you post a question 111 00:02:42,481 --> 00:02:43,914 and it's automatically 112 00:02:43,914 --> 00:02:44,781 publicly available 113 00:02:44,781 --> 00:02:46,348 for everybody to see. 114 00:02:46,348 --> 00:02:46,914 Actually, it's going 115 00:02:46,914 --> 00:02:48,181 to go into a queue. 116 00:02:48,181 --> 00:02:49,081 And so our folks 117 00:02:49,081 --> 00:02:49,981 are going to be taking a look 118 00:02:49,981 --> 00:02:51,515 at those questions as they come in. 119 00:02:51,515 --> 00:02:52,782 If it's something quick and easy 120 00:02:52,782 --> 00:02:53,715 that they can answer 121 00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:54,415 then you might get a 122 00:02:54,415 --> 00:02:55,648 response right away. 123 00:02:55,648 --> 00:02:56,415 But if it's something 124 00:02:56,415 --> 00:02:58,849 that we think everybody would benefit 125 00:02:58,849 --> 00:03:00,182 from hearing the answer, 126 00:03:00,182 --> 00:03:01,916 then that's going to get posted there 127 00:03:01,916 --> 00:03:04,016 into the publicly viewable 128 00:03:04,016 --> 00:03:05,049 section of the box. 129 00:03:05,049 --> 00:03:07,716 And then Amy and Matt and also Bob 130 00:03:08,183 --> 00:03:08,983 are going to be answering 131 00:03:08,983 --> 00:03:10,350 your questions later 132 00:03:10,350 --> 00:03:12,150 on after the presentation. 133 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:13,417 So if you have questions, 134 00:03:13,417 --> 00:03:15,617 by all means pop them into the box. 135 00:03:15,617 --> 00:03:16,584 But you also might want to wait 136 00:03:16,584 --> 00:03:17,517 a little bit as well, 137 00:03:17,517 --> 00:03:19,184 because your question might be answered 138 00:03:19,184 --> 00:03:20,551 by the things that you're going to hear 139 00:03:20,551 --> 00:03:21,684 right now as we move 140 00:03:21,684 --> 00:03:23,518 into the presentation. 141 00:03:25,351 --> 00:03:27,685 So as I mentioned, today's presentation 142 00:03:28,118 --> 00:03:29,485 is about mandatory 143 00:03:29,485 --> 00:03:31,318 trademark ID verification, 144 00:03:31,318 --> 00:03:33,619 or identity verification. 145 00:03:33,619 --> 00:03:34,852 And you're going to be hearing 146 00:03:34,852 --> 00:03:37,019 from two experts in this field. 147 00:03:37,052 --> 00:03:38,219 One is Amy Cotton 148 00:03:38,219 --> 00:03:40,219 and the other is Matt Schwab. 149 00:03:40,219 --> 00:03:42,419 And we are going to be discussing the, 150 00:03:42,853 --> 00:03:44,820 you know, more about the program 151 00:03:44,820 --> 00:03:47,453 and why and how we're using user roles 152 00:03:47,453 --> 00:03:48,553 to help regulate 153 00:03:48,553 --> 00:03:50,520 unauthorized trademark submissions 154 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,220 and how you can help determine 155 00:03:52,220 --> 00:03:53,220 the right role for 156 00:03:53,220 --> 00:03:55,487 your specific situation. 157 00:03:55,487 --> 00:03:56,887 So let's do some quick bios 158 00:03:56,887 --> 00:03:57,454 and then we'll jump 159 00:03:57,454 --> 00:03:58,521 right into the presentation. 160 00:03:58,521 --> 00:03:59,587 So Amy Cotton 161 00:03:59,587 --> 00:04:01,021 is the Deputy Commissioner 162 00:04:01,021 --> 00:04:03,321 for Trademark Examination Policy. 163 00:04:03,321 --> 00:04:04,421 She's held a lot of different 164 00:04:04,421 --> 00:04:05,621 positions over the years, 165 00:04:05,621 --> 00:04:06,721 including leading the U.S. 166 00:04:06,721 --> 00:04:07,788 delegation to the World 167 00:04:07,788 --> 00:04:08,788 Intellectual Property 168 00:04:08,788 --> 00:04:10,922 Organization on trademark matters. 169 00:04:11,255 --> 00:04:12,422 And in her role as 170 00:04:12,422 --> 00:04:13,322 the Deputy Commissioner, 171 00:04:13,322 --> 00:04:14,489 she oversees eight 172 00:04:14,489 --> 00:04:16,256 different offices at the USPTO, 173 00:04:16,256 --> 00:04:16,989 including the one 174 00:04:16,989 --> 00:04:18,689 that is relevant for today, 175 00:04:18,689 --> 00:04:21,189 the Office of Trademark Policy. 176 00:04:21,189 --> 00:04:22,456 We also have Matt Schwab. 177 00:04:22,456 --> 00:04:23,390 He works in the Office 178 00:04:23,390 --> 00:04:24,356 of the Deputy Commissioner 179 00:04:24,356 --> 00:04:25,656 for Trademark Administration 180 00:04:25,656 --> 00:04:26,790 as a staff attorney 181 00:04:26,790 --> 00:04:27,923 with Electronic Filing 182 00:04:27,923 --> 00:04:29,390 and Public Web Services. 183 00:04:29,390 --> 00:04:30,757 He focuses on policy 184 00:04:30,757 --> 00:04:31,990 and security issues 185 00:04:31,990 --> 00:04:33,557 related to trademark filing, 186 00:04:33,557 --> 00:04:35,124 and he previously worked as a trademark 187 00:04:35,124 --> 00:04:37,591 examining attorney and as a mentor. 188 00:04:37,958 --> 00:04:38,691 So, Matt, I'm going 189 00:04:38,691 --> 00:04:39,991 to turn it over to you 190 00:04:39,991 --> 00:04:40,791 for you to start just your 191 00:04:40,791 --> 00:04:43,025 presentation and away we go. 192 00:04:44,425 --> 00:04:45,058 -All right. 193 00:04:45,058 --> 00:04:46,792 Thanks, Jason, for those introductions 194 00:04:46,792 --> 00:04:49,225 and for leading in with some energy. 195 00:04:49,525 --> 00:04:50,459 I will do my best 196 00:04:50,459 --> 00:04:51,259 not to suck it all 197 00:04:51,259 --> 00:04:53,826 out of the room as we proceed. 198 00:04:53,826 --> 00:04:55,692 There are going to be four main topics 199 00:04:55,692 --> 00:04:57,159 that we cover today, 200 00:04:57,159 --> 00:04:57,959 and one of them is 201 00:04:57,959 --> 00:04:58,893 going to be pretty fast, 202 00:04:58,893 --> 00:04:59,960 and I'll hit that first. 203 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:01,126 It's the mandatory date 204 00:05:01,126 --> 00:05:03,360 announcement that we made recently. 205 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,460 You're going to need to verify your 206 00:05:05,460 --> 00:05:06,493 USPTO.gov account 207 00:05:06,493 --> 00:05:07,494 by August 6th 208 00:05:07,494 --> 00:05:09,960 in order to continue filing. 209 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,494 And so we'll talk a little bit 210 00:05:11,494 --> 00:05:12,561 more about what that means. 211 00:05:12,561 --> 00:05:12,961 We're also going 212 00:05:12,961 --> 00:05:14,427 to talk about some changes 213 00:05:14,427 --> 00:05:16,761 to our online verification options. 214 00:05:16,761 --> 00:05:18,561 We have a new option for filing for 215 00:05:18,561 --> 00:05:19,695 verifying your identity. 216 00:05:19,695 --> 00:05:21,095 And we also have 217 00:05:21,095 --> 00:05:22,195 some new privacy options 218 00:05:22,195 --> 00:05:23,962 that we've rolled out too. 219 00:05:23,995 --> 00:05:25,195 And then once I'm done with those, 220 00:05:25,195 --> 00:05:26,162 Amy is going to spend 221 00:05:26,162 --> 00:05:27,062 the bulk of the program 222 00:05:27,062 --> 00:05:29,062 discussing the register 223 00:05:29,062 --> 00:05:30,696 protection program. 224 00:05:30,696 --> 00:05:33,963 Why are we implementing login ID 225 00:05:33,963 --> 00:05:35,063 verification? 226 00:05:35,063 --> 00:05:36,563 Why are we moving to a phase three 227 00:05:36,563 --> 00:05:38,430 with enhanced security controls? 228 00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:39,896 And finally, 229 00:05:39,896 --> 00:05:41,630 an in-depth talk on the user roles. 230 00:05:41,630 --> 00:05:42,930 We've got for user roles: 231 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:44,430 owner, attorney, Canadian 232 00:05:44,430 --> 00:05:45,130 agent or attorney, 233 00:05:45,130 --> 00:05:46,664 and attorney support staff. 234 00:05:46,664 --> 00:05:47,164 And we're going to 235 00:05:47,164 --> 00:05:48,997 explain much more about 236 00:05:48,997 --> 00:05:50,264 when you should choose 237 00:05:50,264 --> 00:05:51,164 one or the other, 238 00:05:51,164 --> 00:05:52,264 if possibly more 239 00:05:52,264 --> 00:05:53,564 than one would apply to you. 240 00:05:53,564 --> 00:05:55,498 And what the ethical 241 00:05:55,498 --> 00:05:56,431 obligations are for 242 00:05:56,431 --> 00:05:57,365 each of these roles. 243 00:05:59,298 --> 00:06:00,898 So in the first slide, 244 00:06:00,898 --> 00:06:01,665 we're just going to talk 245 00:06:01,665 --> 00:06:04,299 about the mandatory date briefly. 246 00:06:04,299 --> 00:06:07,399 August 6th, 2022 is the mandatory date. 247 00:06:07,432 --> 00:06:09,066 That's a Saturday. 248 00:06:09,332 --> 00:06:10,899 And on this day, 249 00:06:10,899 --> 00:06:12,199 you will need to verify 250 00:06:12,199 --> 00:06:13,499 your USPTO.gov account 251 00:06:13,499 --> 00:06:14,766 in order to continue filing 252 00:06:14,766 --> 00:06:16,200 trademark submissions. 253 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,033 If you just have filings 254 00:06:18,033 --> 00:06:18,767 that are outstanding, 255 00:06:18,767 --> 00:06:20,033 but you don't need to access 256 00:06:20,033 --> 00:06:21,733 TEAS or TEASi to file, 257 00:06:21,733 --> 00:06:24,067 you don't need to go in and verify, 258 00:06:24,734 --> 00:06:26,834 you know, just as a status issue. 259 00:06:26,834 --> 00:06:28,801 But if you need to make a filing, 260 00:06:28,801 --> 00:06:30,768 you will need to verify your identity. 261 00:06:30,768 --> 00:06:32,901 Again, we have two options for owners 262 00:06:32,901 --> 00:06:33,868 and attorneys to verify 263 00:06:33,868 --> 00:06:35,268 their identities. 264 00:06:35,268 --> 00:06:36,601 We have an electronic online 265 00:06:36,601 --> 00:06:38,068 version and a paper version. 266 00:06:38,068 --> 00:06:40,368 And support staff can be sponsored. 267 00:06:40,768 --> 00:06:42,069 But please don't 268 00:06:42,069 --> 00:06:43,069 wait until the last minute 269 00:06:44,202 --> 00:06:45,202 to do this just in 270 00:06:45,202 --> 00:06:46,569 case there's any issue. 271 00:06:46,569 --> 00:06:47,802 Most of them should be short, 272 00:06:47,802 --> 00:06:50,236 15 to 20 minutes or less. 273 00:06:50,236 --> 00:06:52,103 But if you run into any issues, 274 00:06:52,103 --> 00:06:53,036 it's going to be difficult 275 00:06:53,036 --> 00:06:54,536 at the deadline. 276 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:55,770 If you are at deadline 277 00:06:55,770 --> 00:06:57,937 and you have trouble verifying, 278 00:06:57,937 --> 00:06:59,203 we're going to be discussing it in 279 00:06:59,203 --> 00:07:00,837 further length on our website. 280 00:07:00,837 --> 00:07:02,237 And our support materials 281 00:07:02,237 --> 00:07:04,337 our, our policy for handling that, 282 00:07:04,337 --> 00:07:04,937 but it's essentially 283 00:07:04,937 --> 00:07:06,237 going to be a version 284 00:07:06,237 --> 00:07:08,371 of our current outage procedure 285 00:07:08,371 --> 00:07:11,038 for when TEAS would be unavailable. 286 00:07:11,105 --> 00:07:12,405 There are a few changes 287 00:07:12,405 --> 00:07:14,672 to the online verification process. 288 00:07:15,505 --> 00:07:16,372 And the biggest one is one 289 00:07:16,372 --> 00:07:17,938 that we rolled out on June 30th, 290 00:07:17,938 --> 00:07:18,772 along with a lot of 291 00:07:18,772 --> 00:07:20,672 these other changes. 292 00:07:20,739 --> 00:07:21,872 This is a new option, 293 00:07:21,872 --> 00:07:23,406 a new way to verify. 294 00:07:23,406 --> 00:07:24,806 So originally 295 00:07:24,806 --> 00:07:25,539 we had an option 296 00:07:25,539 --> 00:07:27,473 and we still offer this option 297 00:07:27,473 --> 00:07:28,739 called the "self-service option." 298 00:07:28,739 --> 00:07:31,606 You'd go in, you would provide a selfie, 299 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:33,907 and you would hold up 300 00:07:33,907 --> 00:07:34,873 your driver's license. 301 00:07:34,873 --> 00:07:37,340 It would take a picture of you, 302 00:07:37,340 --> 00:07:39,107 compare it to your driver's license, 303 00:07:39,107 --> 00:07:42,141 and then it would use AI to validate 304 00:07:42,141 --> 00:07:43,574 the similarity between those, 305 00:07:43,574 --> 00:07:45,441 verify your identity, 306 00:07:45,441 --> 00:07:46,941 and the automated process 307 00:07:46,941 --> 00:07:47,941 would take about, 308 00:07:47,941 --> 00:07:50,475 you know, 5-10 minutes to complete. 309 00:07:51,241 --> 00:07:52,008 If for whatever reason, 310 00:07:52,008 --> 00:07:53,475 you couldn't be completed, 311 00:07:53,475 --> 00:07:55,108 most often due to a credit freeze 312 00:07:55,108 --> 00:07:56,075 that we'll talk about later, 313 00:07:57,242 --> 00:07:58,609 you would be routed to a video chat 314 00:07:58,609 --> 00:07:59,942 agent to complete that. 315 00:07:59,942 --> 00:08:01,942 So you would move to the queue, 316 00:08:01,942 --> 00:08:03,209 wait for a video chat agent, 317 00:08:03,209 --> 00:08:04,876 and then perhaps provide 318 00:08:04,876 --> 00:08:06,076 additional documentation, 319 00:08:06,076 --> 00:08:07,410 but finish your verification 320 00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:08,610 in that session. 321 00:08:08,610 --> 00:08:10,576 We're offering a new option now, 322 00:08:10,576 --> 00:08:11,377 and that is for people 323 00:08:11,377 --> 00:08:12,310 who don't want to go through 324 00:08:12,310 --> 00:08:13,677 the self-service route. 325 00:08:13,677 --> 00:08:14,677 This is a "direct-to-video 326 00:08:14,677 --> 00:08:16,710 chat agent" option 327 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:18,211 and simply you can just choose 328 00:08:18,211 --> 00:08:19,411 on the main page 329 00:08:19,411 --> 00:08:20,411 that you want to go directly 330 00:08:20,411 --> 00:08:21,644 to a video chat agent. 331 00:08:21,644 --> 00:08:23,678 You won't need to provide a selfie, 332 00:08:23,678 --> 00:08:24,778 but you may need to provide 333 00:08:24,778 --> 00:08:26,311 some additional documentation 334 00:08:26,311 --> 00:08:26,911 that we'll discuss 335 00:08:26,911 --> 00:08:28,911 on the following slides. 336 00:08:32,312 --> 00:08:34,379 So this slide is a good comparison 337 00:08:34,379 --> 00:08:36,145 of the differences between these two 338 00:08:36,145 --> 00:08:37,379 and some of the considerations 339 00:08:37,379 --> 00:08:38,446 that went into 340 00:08:38,446 --> 00:08:40,479 to offering these options. 341 00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:41,313 So on the left, we'll start 342 00:08:41,313 --> 00:08:42,446 with the self-service 343 00:08:42,446 --> 00:08:43,613 and then we'll go back and forth 344 00:08:43,613 --> 00:08:44,713 between the two to compare 345 00:08:44,713 --> 00:08:46,046 the differences. 346 00:08:46,213 --> 00:08:47,880 Self-service is going to require 347 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:48,780 a driver's license, 348 00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:50,680 passport, or passport card. 349 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:52,080 More than 95% of people 350 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,314 who are verifying through ID.me 351 00:08:53,314 --> 00:08:54,680 are using at least one of these 352 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:56,381 for their verification. 353 00:08:56,381 --> 00:08:58,714 So it does have a pretty good reach. 354 00:08:58,714 --> 00:08:59,448 The driver's license 355 00:08:59,448 --> 00:09:00,514 can also be a state ID. 356 00:09:00,514 --> 00:09:01,148 It does not need to be 357 00:09:01,148 --> 00:09:02,314 a driver's license. 358 00:09:02,314 --> 00:09:03,548 It could be a state ID instead. 359 00:09:04,981 --> 00:09:06,615 The direct to video chat agent. 360 00:09:06,615 --> 00:09:07,515 They'll need at least 361 00:09:07,515 --> 00:09:08,615 two identity documents, 362 00:09:08,615 --> 00:09:09,182 but they can pull 363 00:09:09,182 --> 00:09:10,615 from a much wider list. 364 00:09:10,615 --> 00:09:12,249 This wider list is available 365 00:09:12,249 --> 00:09:13,549 on our USPTO ID.me 366 00:09:13,549 --> 00:09:16,282 help site, also on their help site. 367 00:09:16,282 --> 00:09:17,482 It includes things 368 00:09:17,482 --> 00:09:18,583 like utility bills, 369 00:09:18,583 --> 00:09:20,649 alternate forms of verification, 370 00:09:20,649 --> 00:09:22,550 alternate forms of identity. 371 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:23,583 It's much wider, 372 00:09:23,583 --> 00:09:24,983 but you will need to provide more of it 373 00:09:24,983 --> 00:09:27,050 if you go into this option. 374 00:09:27,050 --> 00:09:28,250 The self-service uses AI 375 00:09:28,250 --> 00:09:29,584 for that first step. 376 00:09:29,584 --> 00:09:30,484 That's why it's available 377 00:09:30,484 --> 00:09:32,017 24 hours, very quickly, 378 00:09:32,017 --> 00:09:33,184 and can get you in and out the door 379 00:09:33,184 --> 00:09:34,584 in 5 to 10 minutes. 380 00:09:34,584 --> 00:09:34,984 The AI 381 00:09:34,984 --> 00:09:36,651 checks your, your 382 00:09:36,651 --> 00:09:37,751 biometric data 383 00:09:37,751 --> 00:09:39,684 against your driver's license 384 00:09:39,684 --> 00:09:41,018 and makes a decision 385 00:09:41,018 --> 00:09:43,151 about whether you match based on that. 386 00:09:43,151 --> 00:09:44,118 The direct video chat 387 00:09:44,118 --> 00:09:45,752 agent uses human eyes 388 00:09:45,752 --> 00:09:46,985 to make this determination. 389 00:09:46,985 --> 00:09:49,385 So there's no facial recognition. 390 00:09:49,385 --> 00:09:50,719 There's just a live video chat. 391 00:09:52,819 --> 00:09:54,852 Now the data is collected 392 00:09:54,852 --> 00:09:56,686 for the self-service option. 393 00:09:56,686 --> 00:09:58,553 The data is deleted after 24 hours. 394 00:09:58,553 --> 00:09:59,986 So the selfie that you provide: 395 00:09:59,986 --> 00:10:01,820 deleted. The biometric data 396 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:04,120 that's derived from it is also deleted. 397 00:10:04,587 --> 00:10:06,553 For people who use this option, 398 00:10:06,553 --> 00:10:08,787 like I did prior to March 30th, 399 00:10:09,154 --> 00:10:10,554 you'll need to go in there manually 400 00:10:10,554 --> 00:10:12,354 or I'm sorry, prior to June 30th, 401 00:10:12,354 --> 00:10:13,121 you'll need to go in there 402 00:10:13,121 --> 00:10:16,421 manually and delete this. 403 00:10:16,554 --> 00:10:17,721 And we'll give instructions 404 00:10:17,721 --> 00:10:18,555 on a following slide 405 00:10:18,555 --> 00:10:19,588 about the link to go to. 406 00:10:19,588 --> 00:10:21,355 It really is about a 10 second process. 407 00:10:21,355 --> 00:10:23,655 You just click on the link, log 408 00:10:23,688 --> 00:10:24,588 in, tell it you want to 409 00:10:24,588 --> 00:10:28,089 delete the data, and move on. 410 00:10:30,856 --> 00:10:31,756 I think there's. 411 00:10:31,756 --> 00:10:32,989 Can we go back one slide? 412 00:10:32,989 --> 00:10:35,389 There's just one. One 413 00:10:35,723 --> 00:10:38,090 or two more points to to compare here. 414 00:10:38,090 --> 00:10:40,590 The credit profile check 415 00:10:40,590 --> 00:10:41,390 ius required as part of 416 00:10:41,390 --> 00:10:43,590 the self-service option. So if you're 417 00:10:45,357 --> 00:10:46,557 not sure if your credit 418 00:10:46,557 --> 00:10:47,557 profile is complete 419 00:10:47,557 --> 00:10:48,991 or if it exists or if you know 420 00:10:48,991 --> 00:10:50,491 that you've placed a freeze on it, 421 00:10:50,491 --> 00:10:51,824 you may want to choose the direct 422 00:10:51,824 --> 00:10:52,658 to video chat agent 423 00:10:52,658 --> 00:10:54,691 because they will try to check this 424 00:10:54,691 --> 00:10:55,958 and it's not doing a credit 425 00:10:55,958 --> 00:10:56,758 worthiness check. 426 00:10:56,758 --> 00:11:00,425 It's not doing a financial inquiry. 427 00:11:00,592 --> 00:11:01,392 It is just looking 428 00:11:01,392 --> 00:11:02,692 at the things on your profile, 429 00:11:02,692 --> 00:11:04,259 like your name, address, phone number 430 00:11:04,259 --> 00:11:06,125 to try to match them with the records 431 00:11:06,125 --> 00:11:07,626 that are from your ID 432 00:11:07,626 --> 00:11:09,792 to see if there is in fact a match. 433 00:11:09,792 --> 00:11:12,326 If the automated system can't use this, 434 00:11:12,893 --> 00:11:13,793 the direct to video chat 435 00:11:13,793 --> 00:11:15,560 agent will have a wider 436 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,293 range of options that they can do. 437 00:11:18,293 --> 00:11:19,593 When you go in to video chat with them, 438 00:11:19,593 --> 00:11:21,060 they will record that chat 439 00:11:21,060 --> 00:11:21,927 just to make sure 440 00:11:21,927 --> 00:11:22,360 that there are no 441 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:23,860 security issues happening, 442 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:25,861 nobody doing anything under duress 443 00:11:25,861 --> 00:11:27,627 or being confused 444 00:11:27,627 --> 00:11:29,428 or misled into doing anything. 445 00:11:29,428 --> 00:11:32,061 And that is deleted after 30 days too. 446 00:11:32,061 --> 00:11:32,828 Again self-service, 447 00:11:32,828 --> 00:11:34,295 about 5 to 10 minutes. 448 00:11:34,295 --> 00:11:37,062 Direct to video chat that may, 449 00:11:37,062 --> 00:11:38,562 the session itself 450 00:11:38,562 --> 00:11:39,728 will take about 5 to 10 minutes 451 00:11:39,728 --> 00:11:40,328 when you're in it. 452 00:11:40,328 --> 00:11:42,095 But there may be a wait for an agent. 453 00:11:42,095 --> 00:11:42,995 That'll be displayed, 454 00:11:42,995 --> 00:11:44,829 as you can see on the right side 455 00:11:44,829 --> 00:11:46,396 of the screen in this video chat 456 00:11:46,396 --> 00:11:48,329 agent option here. 457 00:11:48,329 --> 00:11:48,896 It'll tell you about 458 00:11:48,896 --> 00:11:50,763 how long the wait time is. 30 minutes 459 00:11:50,763 --> 00:11:51,663 is generally 460 00:11:51,663 --> 00:11:52,896 a little bit on the higher side. 461 00:11:52,896 --> 00:11:53,596 That's what you get 462 00:11:53,596 --> 00:11:54,863 when you're coming in 463 00:11:54,863 --> 00:11:56,063 after work, when other people 464 00:11:56,063 --> 00:11:57,063 are coming in to 465 00:11:57,063 --> 00:11:58,563 verify their identities. 466 00:11:58,563 --> 00:11:59,530 If you do it in the morning, it's 467 00:11:59,530 --> 00:12:00,930 typically significantly less. 468 00:12:05,964 --> 00:12:06,731 So. 469 00:12:07,364 --> 00:12:08,564 We also wanted to enhance 470 00:12:08,564 --> 00:12:09,864 some of the privacy settings 471 00:12:09,864 --> 00:12:11,031 because we heard customer 472 00:12:11,031 --> 00:12:12,298 concerns about privacy. 473 00:12:12,298 --> 00:12:13,798 We take it very seriously 474 00:12:13,798 --> 00:12:14,932 and we don't want 475 00:12:14,932 --> 00:12:16,432 to have any information 476 00:12:16,432 --> 00:12:18,532 that's kept unnecessarily, that's 477 00:12:19,799 --> 00:12:21,199 that that people feel 478 00:12:21,199 --> 00:12:22,632 uncomfortable providing. 479 00:12:22,632 --> 00:12:23,866 We really are trying to collect 480 00:12:23,866 --> 00:12:25,699 the very minimum that we can 481 00:12:25,699 --> 00:12:26,866 to guarantee that 482 00:12:26,866 --> 00:12:28,133 the person who's using an account 483 00:12:28,133 --> 00:12:30,233 is the person who's named in it. 484 00:12:30,233 --> 00:12:31,366 So the self-service 485 00:12:31,366 --> 00:12:33,567 has had some changes made to it. 486 00:12:33,567 --> 00:12:34,767 We only use, there 487 00:12:34,767 --> 00:12:35,967 have been some articles in the news 488 00:12:35,967 --> 00:12:37,400 about facial recognition. 489 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:38,600 We use the kind that 490 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,434 compares your selfie to your photo ID. 491 00:12:41,434 --> 00:12:42,267 We're not comparing it 492 00:12:42,267 --> 00:12:43,601 to other people's photos. 493 00:12:43,601 --> 00:12:45,601 We've we've not used this service 494 00:12:46,468 --> 00:12:48,735 from from ID.me since 495 00:12:50,335 --> 00:12:52,202 late February, and it was only used 496 00:12:52,202 --> 00:12:54,235 in a few cases before that. 497 00:12:54,235 --> 00:12:56,802 So we've we've been able 498 00:12:56,802 --> 00:12:59,002 to survey that and determine that, that 499 00:12:59,002 --> 00:13:00,169 there were no issues with that. 500 00:13:00,169 --> 00:13:00,736 But we just want to 501 00:13:00,736 --> 00:13:01,869 make sure everyone knows 502 00:13:01,869 --> 00:13:02,202 we're 503 00:13:02,202 --> 00:13:04,769 we're not comparing these images to 504 00:13:04,769 --> 00:13:06,569 everybody else's photos. 505 00:13:06,569 --> 00:13:07,370 It's only comparing it 506 00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:09,236 to your driver's license. 507 00:13:09,236 --> 00:13:10,170 The selfie in the biometric 508 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:11,470 data, again, is now 509 00:13:11,470 --> 00:13:13,670 automatically deleted after 24 hours. 510 00:13:14,504 --> 00:13:16,137 People who verify their identities 511 00:13:16,137 --> 00:13:17,237 prior will need to go in 512 00:13:17,237 --> 00:13:18,737 and delete it manually. 513 00:13:18,737 --> 00:13:20,104 And this is the length 514 00:13:20,104 --> 00:13:21,871 that you can go to: 515 00:13:21,871 --> 00:13:24,338 account.id.me/signin/privacy. 516 00:13:24,738 --> 00:13:25,671 You can just go right in there 517 00:13:25,671 --> 00:13:27,471 and there's a big button that says, 518 00:13:27,471 --> 00:13:28,805 "Delete my selfie." And it will 519 00:13:28,805 --> 00:13:29,472 clear all that out. 520 00:13:30,638 --> 00:13:31,772 The direct to video chat agent, 521 00:13:31,772 --> 00:13:32,805 as we said before, 522 00:13:32,805 --> 00:13:34,439 will delete those video recordings 523 00:13:34,439 --> 00:13:35,705 automatically after 30 days. 524 00:13:35,705 --> 00:13:37,206 And again, it does not use 525 00:13:37,206 --> 00:13:38,506 facial recognition. 526 00:13:38,506 --> 00:13:39,806 In this case because you're 527 00:13:39,806 --> 00:13:40,806 talking to the video 528 00:13:40,806 --> 00:13:41,939 chat agent directly 529 00:13:41,939 --> 00:13:44,740 and they are using human recognition. 530 00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:46,573 And again, both options: 531 00:13:46,573 --> 00:13:47,973 the profile is checked, 532 00:13:47,973 --> 00:13:49,473 but not the credit history. 533 00:13:49,473 --> 00:13:51,574 These are not financial matters 534 00:13:51,574 --> 00:13:52,407 that are queried. 535 00:13:52,407 --> 00:13:55,474 Just think of it as a an in-depth 536 00:13:56,174 --> 00:13:58,341 phone book directory listing. 537 00:13:58,341 --> 00:13:59,374 That's the information that it's 538 00:13:59,374 --> 00:14:00,808 checking against. 539 00:14:07,042 --> 00:14:08,975 So we've talked a lot about changes 540 00:14:08,975 --> 00:14:09,942 to privacy, changes 541 00:14:09,942 --> 00:14:10,975 to the online option. 542 00:14:10,975 --> 00:14:11,875 We just want to remind you 543 00:14:11,875 --> 00:14:13,242 that you do have 544 00:14:13,442 --> 00:14:15,176 multiple options for verifying here, 545 00:14:15,176 --> 00:14:16,542 including the paper process. 546 00:14:16,542 --> 00:14:17,776 That's been available 547 00:14:17,776 --> 00:14:18,976 since January 8th, 548 00:14:18,976 --> 00:14:20,176 the same date that online 549 00:14:20,176 --> 00:14:22,210 verification became an option. 550 00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:23,776 And attorneys and owners 551 00:14:23,776 --> 00:14:25,377 can use this to mail 552 00:14:25,377 --> 00:14:27,910 in a notarized paper form 553 00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:29,610 that they can then send to us. 554 00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:31,877 And generally within a week. 555 00:14:31,877 --> 00:14:32,477 We've really gotten it 556 00:14:32,477 --> 00:14:33,544 down to three or four days, 557 00:14:33,544 --> 00:14:35,677 as long as there are no issues, 558 00:14:35,677 --> 00:14:37,378 getting these verified. 559 00:14:37,378 --> 00:14:38,311 So this is an option, 560 00:14:38,311 --> 00:14:39,244 but it's not the best 561 00:14:39,244 --> 00:14:40,578 one for a last minute option, 562 00:14:40,578 --> 00:14:41,311 and it does require 563 00:14:41,311 --> 00:14:43,245 an in-person notary. 564 00:14:43,245 --> 00:14:44,912 Again, we've got these two options 565 00:14:44,912 --> 00:14:46,745 for online verification: self-service 566 00:14:46,745 --> 00:14:48,112 and our new video chat option. 567 00:14:49,179 --> 00:14:50,412 We've got the attorney 568 00:14:50,412 --> 00:14:51,512 support staff process, 569 00:14:51,512 --> 00:14:52,979 and this is what support staff 570 00:14:52,979 --> 00:14:54,246 have to use. 571 00:14:54,246 --> 00:14:55,679 Paralegals and other support staff 572 00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:56,413 who are working under 573 00:14:56,413 --> 00:14:58,213 the supervision of an attorney 574 00:14:58,213 --> 00:14:59,813 will be sponsored by that attorney 575 00:14:59,813 --> 00:15:01,013 once the attorney has verified, 576 00:15:01,013 --> 00:15:02,313 their identity 577 00:15:02,413 --> 00:15:04,613 using that sponsorship tool 578 00:15:04,613 --> 00:15:06,514 that we have links to on our page. 579 00:15:06,514 --> 00:15:08,614 So the support staff 580 00:15:08,847 --> 00:15:10,447 will not go through ID.me. 581 00:15:10,447 --> 00:15:12,014 They will not submit a paper form. 582 00:15:12,014 --> 00:15:13,581 Instead, they will be sponsored 583 00:15:13,581 --> 00:15:14,781 by their sponsoring attorney 584 00:15:14,781 --> 00:15:16,648 who will verify their, that identity 585 00:15:16,648 --> 00:15:18,681 at the time of sponsorship. 586 00:15:18,681 --> 00:15:20,281 And finally, for all of our 587 00:15:20,281 --> 00:15:21,315 patent practitioners 588 00:15:21,315 --> 00:15:24,215 and other patent filers, 589 00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:26,282 we have their accounts 590 00:15:26,282 --> 00:15:28,382 that are the same USPTO.gov accounts 591 00:15:28,682 --> 00:15:31,016 as the trademark users have. 592 00:15:31,016 --> 00:15:34,316 In most cases, we are able to determine 593 00:15:34,316 --> 00:15:35,016 what their role is 594 00:15:35,016 --> 00:15:36,083 and if we can automatically 595 00:15:36,083 --> 00:15:37,516 move it over or not. 596 00:15:37,516 --> 00:15:38,783 If you have a role 597 00:15:38,783 --> 00:15:40,883 that we can't automatically move over, 598 00:15:40,883 --> 00:15:42,017 you may need to go back in 599 00:15:42,017 --> 00:15:44,484 to our "Verify identity" web page, 600 00:15:44,750 --> 00:15:46,584 select your trademark filing role, 601 00:15:46,584 --> 00:15:47,851 and then you'll be allowed to proceed 602 00:15:47,851 --> 00:15:49,051 as long as you're logged in with that 603 00:15:49,051 --> 00:15:50,417 previously verified account. 604 00:15:51,551 --> 00:15:53,284 So that's the the 605 00:15:53,284 --> 00:15:54,451 extra step 606 00:15:54,451 --> 00:15:55,585 that some of our patent filers 607 00:15:55,585 --> 00:15:56,851 may need to take. 608 00:15:56,851 --> 00:15:58,018 But if they have gone through patent 609 00:15:58,018 --> 00:15:59,752 verification, even 610 00:15:59,752 --> 00:16:01,152 going back to the PKI 611 00:16:01,152 --> 00:16:02,685 certificate days, 612 00:16:02,685 --> 00:16:05,019 that's carrying through until now. 613 00:16:05,019 --> 00:16:05,985 If you've been verified with us, 614 00:16:05,985 --> 00:16:07,486 you don't need to verify again 615 00:16:07,486 --> 00:16:08,819 just with trademarks 616 00:16:08,819 --> 00:16:10,153 as long as you verified 617 00:16:10,153 --> 00:16:12,519 previously with patents. 618 00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:14,453 So these these ways 619 00:16:14,453 --> 00:16:15,520 of verification, 620 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:16,453 they vary according 621 00:16:16,453 --> 00:16:18,053 to the roles that you have. 622 00:16:18,053 --> 00:16:19,120 And we're going to 623 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:19,820 spend a lot more time 624 00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:21,020 talking about these roles 625 00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:22,387 and why we need roles 626 00:16:22,387 --> 00:16:23,520 and why we need verification 627 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,754 and the rest of these things. 628 00:16:24,754 --> 00:16:25,554 And so for that, 629 00:16:25,554 --> 00:16:26,621 I'd like to turn it over 630 00:16:26,621 --> 00:16:30,221 to Deputy Commissioner Amy Cotton. 631 00:16:31,221 --> 00:16:32,454 -Thank you, Matt. 632 00:16:32,454 --> 00:16:33,988 So he told you the how. 633 00:16:33,988 --> 00:16:35,521 I'm going to tell you the why. 634 00:16:36,555 --> 00:16:38,722 So over the past few years, 635 00:16:38,722 --> 00:16:39,455 well, and probably even 636 00:16:39,455 --> 00:16:41,389 a little bit longer than few, right? 637 00:16:41,389 --> 00:16:43,022 USPTO has seen a steady 638 00:16:43,022 --> 00:16:44,422 growth of abuses 639 00:16:44,422 --> 00:16:45,756 of the filing system, 640 00:16:45,756 --> 00:16:47,389 attempts to circumvent 641 00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:48,423 our rules of practice, 642 00:16:48,423 --> 00:16:50,023 and outright fraud. 643 00:16:50,023 --> 00:16:51,623 So these scams are growing 644 00:16:51,623 --> 00:16:53,623 in volume, variety. 645 00:16:53,623 --> 00:16:54,690 They're constantly, constantly 646 00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:55,923 evolving, just like 647 00:16:55,923 --> 00:16:57,723 counterfeiting, right? 648 00:16:57,790 --> 00:16:59,490 There are four main types. 649 00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:00,724 Scam type number one: 650 00:17:00,724 --> 00:17:01,790 where the scammers mislead 651 00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:03,691 customers to pay inflated fees 652 00:17:03,691 --> 00:17:05,624 for fake or unnecessary services. 653 00:17:05,624 --> 00:17:08,124 These are those misleading invoices. 654 00:17:08,124 --> 00:17:10,891 Number two: scammers pose as the USPTO. 655 00:17:11,358 --> 00:17:12,625 And for this, actually, 656 00:17:12,625 --> 00:17:14,258 we were trying to register 657 00:17:14,258 --> 00:17:15,658 our own logos as trademarks 658 00:17:15,658 --> 00:17:16,892 so we can use those to 659 00:17:16,892 --> 00:17:18,292 take down these folks 660 00:17:18,292 --> 00:17:20,892 that are posing as us. 661 00:17:20,892 --> 00:17:21,992 Scam type number three: 662 00:17:21,992 --> 00:17:22,892 tthese are when scammers 663 00:17:22,892 --> 00:17:24,859 are hijacking applications 664 00:17:24,859 --> 00:17:25,959 and registrations 665 00:17:25,959 --> 00:17:27,293 in order to extort money 666 00:17:27,293 --> 00:17:28,659 or get into an e-commerce 667 00:17:28,659 --> 00:17:30,326 platform brand registry. 668 00:17:30,326 --> 00:17:31,826 And scam type number four: 669 00:17:31,826 --> 00:17:33,360 where scammers are hijacking 670 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,660 or renting attorney credentials 671 00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:37,794 to circumvent the 2019 U.S. 672 00:17:37,794 --> 00:17:38,527 Council rule. 673 00:17:39,794 --> 00:17:41,061 So to respond to these 674 00:17:41,061 --> 00:17:42,961 scams, we've developed four, five 675 00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:43,861 broad strategies. 676 00:17:43,861 --> 00:17:44,861 Number one. 677 00:17:44,861 --> 00:17:46,894 We've had to rethink and reorganize 678 00:17:46,894 --> 00:17:48,695 the registration system. 679 00:17:48,695 --> 00:17:49,695 Our examining attorneys 680 00:17:49,695 --> 00:17:51,662 only see one application at a time, 681 00:17:51,662 --> 00:17:53,095 and that means that they're not seeing 682 00:17:53,095 --> 00:17:54,528 the telltale markers 683 00:17:54,528 --> 00:17:56,262 of a bad faith filing firm 684 00:17:56,262 --> 00:17:58,829 that's the invisible hand behind 685 00:17:59,296 --> 00:18:00,529 thousands of invalidly 686 00:18:00,529 --> 00:18:02,596 filed applications. 687 00:18:02,596 --> 00:18:04,096 We decided to pull, 688 00:18:04,096 --> 00:18:04,796 as best we could, 689 00:18:04,796 --> 00:18:06,096 to pull these suspicious cases 690 00:18:06,096 --> 00:18:07,230 out of examination 691 00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:09,430 for review and handling by 692 00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:10,830 non-examination staff. 693 00:18:10,830 --> 00:18:13,397 And that leads to strategy number two. 694 00:18:13,397 --> 00:18:15,164 To pull these cases out of examination, 695 00:18:15,164 --> 00:18:17,130 we had to create a sanctions program, 696 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:18,831 a sanctioned process. 697 00:18:18,831 --> 00:18:20,097 The Special Task Force 698 00:18:20,097 --> 00:18:22,231 for Improper Activities 699 00:18:22,231 --> 00:18:24,231 now review suspicious behavior 700 00:18:24,231 --> 00:18:25,465 that violates our filing rules. 701 00:18:25,465 --> 00:18:26,865 And it looks for evidence of intent 702 00:18:26,865 --> 00:18:28,698 to circumvent our rules. 703 00:18:28,698 --> 00:18:30,098 And that review may result 704 00:18:30,098 --> 00:18:32,265 in administrative sanctions orders. 705 00:18:32,265 --> 00:18:33,665 It could result in a referral 706 00:18:33,665 --> 00:18:34,865 for attorney disciplinary or 707 00:18:34,865 --> 00:18:36,399 referral to law enforcement 708 00:18:36,399 --> 00:18:39,099 if it's got a criminal element there. 709 00:18:39,099 --> 00:18:40,099 And solution number three. 710 00:18:40,099 --> 00:18:41,633 Communication's always important 711 00:18:41,633 --> 00:18:43,499 to tell our customers 712 00:18:43,499 --> 00:18:44,766 how to prevent scams, 713 00:18:44,766 --> 00:18:45,866 how to respond to scams, 714 00:18:45,866 --> 00:18:47,500 how to watch out for scams. 715 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:48,633 Solution number four. 716 00:18:48,633 --> 00:18:50,500 Access controls for filing 717 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:51,634 electronic forms. 718 00:18:51,634 --> 00:18:52,967 We're putting up a fence 719 00:18:52,967 --> 00:18:54,567 around the filing system 720 00:18:54,567 --> 00:18:55,534 so the bad actors 721 00:18:55,534 --> 00:18:57,301 can't continue to inject 722 00:18:57,301 --> 00:18:58,034 these fraudulent 723 00:18:58,034 --> 00:18:59,134 filings into our system. 724 00:19:00,234 --> 00:19:01,368 Solution number five. 725 00:19:01,368 --> 00:19:02,768 Post-registration audit and 726 00:19:02,768 --> 00:19:04,235 non-use cancelation proceedings. 727 00:19:04,235 --> 00:19:06,001 So this is to address that fake 728 00:19:06,001 --> 00:19:07,335 and fraudulent claims of use 729 00:19:07,335 --> 00:19:09,135 and the specimens of use. 730 00:19:09,135 --> 00:19:10,635 We established two mechanisms 731 00:19:10,635 --> 00:19:12,235 to test the veracity 732 00:19:12,235 --> 00:19:13,535 of applicants' and registrants' 733 00:19:13,535 --> 00:19:14,469 claims of use. 734 00:19:14,469 --> 00:19:16,502 That's the audit and the TMA non-use 735 00:19:16,502 --> 00:19:17,903 cancelation proceedings. 736 00:19:17,903 --> 00:19:19,203 Now today 737 00:19:19,203 --> 00:19:20,003 I just really want to 738 00:19:20,003 --> 00:19:21,370 focus on number four. 739 00:19:21,370 --> 00:19:22,770 That's the access controls. 740 00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:24,303 To building the fence 741 00:19:24,303 --> 00:19:25,470 around the filing system. 742 00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:27,570 So three phases to our 743 00:19:27,903 --> 00:19:28,904 our access controls. 744 00:19:28,904 --> 00:19:30,470 Phase one requires, 745 00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:32,004 you remember this, customer accounts 746 00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:33,971 that allow us to track 747 00:19:33,971 --> 00:19:35,471 those fraudulent filings back 748 00:19:35,471 --> 00:19:36,571 to the specific account 749 00:19:36,571 --> 00:19:38,071 from which it came. 750 00:19:38,571 --> 00:19:39,871 Phase two allows us 751 00:19:39,871 --> 00:19:41,205 to hold folks accountable 752 00:19:41,205 --> 00:19:42,738 for their filings. 753 00:19:42,738 --> 00:19:43,405 If the filings are 754 00:19:43,405 --> 00:19:44,505 fraudulent, the account 755 00:19:44,505 --> 00:19:45,005 from which they're 756 00:19:45,005 --> 00:19:46,138 filed will be blocked 757 00:19:46,138 --> 00:19:47,072 and that bad actor 758 00:19:47,072 --> 00:19:48,039 won't be able to simply 759 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:49,372 create a new one 760 00:19:49,372 --> 00:19:51,206 under a different name. 761 00:19:51,206 --> 00:19:52,339 Phase three allows 762 00:19:52,339 --> 00:19:54,039 us to control submission rights 763 00:19:54,039 --> 00:19:56,106 to applications and registrations. 764 00:19:56,106 --> 00:19:57,373 Now we're only in the beginning 765 00:19:57,373 --> 00:19:58,973 phases of designing phase three, 766 00:19:58,973 --> 00:20:00,440 so that rollout really 767 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,673 will not be sometime in 768 00:20:01,673 --> 00:20:04,707 probably late 2023, 2024. 769 00:20:05,073 --> 00:20:06,007 We have some work to do 770 00:20:06,007 --> 00:20:08,374 and we got delayed on phase two, 771 00:20:08,374 --> 00:20:10,574 but we're making making headway now. 772 00:20:11,841 --> 00:20:13,207 So we have something, 773 00:20:13,207 --> 00:20:14,541 I don't know, 200,000 774 00:20:14,541 --> 00:20:16,674 USPTO.gov accounts. 775 00:20:16,674 --> 00:20:18,208 Only about 70,000 776 00:20:18,208 --> 00:20:20,075 are ID-verified so far. 777 00:20:20,075 --> 00:20:22,242 And we can track the filing behavior 778 00:20:22,242 --> 00:20:23,242 on all those accounts. 779 00:20:23,242 --> 00:20:25,009 But for those accounts 780 00:20:25,009 --> 00:20:26,709 that are not ID-verified, 781 00:20:26,709 --> 00:20:27,675 we actually don't know 782 00:20:27,675 --> 00:20:29,676 who is filing from that account. 783 00:20:29,676 --> 00:20:31,042 We don't know how many people 784 00:20:31,042 --> 00:20:32,843 are filing from that account. 785 00:20:32,843 --> 00:20:33,409 And we don't know 786 00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:34,743 whether one person controls 787 00:20:34,743 --> 00:20:36,276 multiple accounts 788 00:20:36,276 --> 00:20:38,276 under different aliases. 789 00:20:38,276 --> 00:20:39,310 So if we shut down 790 00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:40,710 one of those fraudulent accounts, 791 00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:43,177 there's nothing stopping the bad actor 792 00:20:43,177 --> 00:20:46,577 from creating a new one. 793 00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:49,177 But we now have a game changer. 794 00:20:49,177 --> 00:20:50,244 It's coming down the pike, 795 00:20:50,244 --> 00:20:53,478 August 6th, mandatory ID verification. 796 00:20:53,511 --> 00:20:54,678 So as Matt said, 797 00:20:54,678 --> 00:20:55,945 all USPTO.gov 798 00:20:55,945 --> 00:20:57,978 accounts must be ID, ID- 799 00:20:57,978 --> 00:20:58,778 verified in order 800 00:20:58,778 --> 00:21:01,312 to continue to access TEAS and TEASi, 801 00:21:01,345 --> 00:21:03,312 as of August 6th. 802 00:21:03,312 --> 00:21:04,445 Now, after August 6th, 803 00:21:04,445 --> 00:21:05,312 then that means if 804 00:21:05,312 --> 00:21:06,312 we discover an account 805 00:21:06,312 --> 00:21:08,179 is responsible for fraudulent filings 806 00:21:08,179 --> 00:21:09,646 or other bad behavior, 807 00:21:09,646 --> 00:21:10,613 we can take it down. 808 00:21:10,613 --> 00:21:12,646 And it should stay down 809 00:21:12,646 --> 00:21:14,380 because the bad actor, bad actor 810 00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:15,613 can't create another 811 00:21:15,613 --> 00:21:17,547 account with that ID. 812 00:21:17,547 --> 00:21:19,680 Now, I'm sure all you guys, focusing, 813 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,380 focusing on anti-counterfeiting efforts 814 00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:22,147 just laugh at that. 815 00:21:22,147 --> 00:21:23,180 And we know, you know, 816 00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:24,914 we're not going to solve the problem. 817 00:21:24,914 --> 00:21:26,114 This is not a silver bullet 818 00:21:26,114 --> 00:21:27,147 all at once, but 819 00:21:27,147 --> 00:21:29,014 certainly it can help us 820 00:21:29,014 --> 00:21:30,081 in our fight to combat 821 00:21:30,081 --> 00:21:31,781 fraudulent filings. 822 00:21:31,781 --> 00:21:33,948 But I'm really here to talk about 823 00:21:34,081 --> 00:21:36,915 another feature of that, that phase two 824 00:21:37,448 --> 00:21:38,282 that can help us 825 00:21:38,282 --> 00:21:39,782 cut down on unauthorized, 826 00:21:39,782 --> 00:21:41,082 fraudulent submissions. 827 00:21:41,082 --> 00:21:43,249 And that's the user rule feature. 828 00:21:43,249 --> 00:21:44,816 So when you verify 829 00:21:44,816 --> 00:21:46,382 your USPTO.gov account 830 00:21:46,382 --> 00:21:48,016 and I hope all of you have done that, 831 00:21:48,016 --> 00:21:50,049 you have to choose a user role. 832 00:21:50,049 --> 00:21:52,116 We're using these user roles 833 00:21:52,116 --> 00:21:54,216 and the enforcement of these user roles 834 00:21:54,216 --> 00:21:56,183 to regulate the conduct of those 835 00:21:56,183 --> 00:21:58,183 appearing before the USPTO. 836 00:22:01,017 --> 00:22:02,284 Phase three. 837 00:22:02,284 --> 00:22:03,617 Now, when I say we're 838 00:22:03,617 --> 00:22:05,284 regulating the conduct, 839 00:22:05,284 --> 00:22:06,651 here's an example of the conduct 840 00:22:06,651 --> 00:22:07,084 that we're seeing. 841 00:22:07,084 --> 00:22:08,551 We're seeing unauthorized changes 842 00:22:08,551 --> 00:22:10,418 of correspondence addresses. 843 00:22:10,418 --> 00:22:12,318 They appear to be hijacking attempts. 844 00:22:12,318 --> 00:22:13,518 They're trying to extort money 845 00:22:13,518 --> 00:22:14,618 from the true owner 846 00:22:14,618 --> 00:22:15,418 or they're using 847 00:22:15,418 --> 00:22:16,552 that hijacked application 848 00:22:16,552 --> 00:22:18,419 to enroll in a brand registry. 849 00:22:18,419 --> 00:22:20,219 Now, phase three, role-based 850 00:22:20,219 --> 00:22:22,486 access controls, will stop that or, 851 00:22:22,786 --> 00:22:24,819 you know, help to stop it, hopefully. 852 00:22:24,819 --> 00:22:25,786 These roles 853 00:22:25,786 --> 00:22:26,886 that account holders are claiming 854 00:22:26,886 --> 00:22:28,753 now are the ones that the USPTO 855 00:22:28,753 --> 00:22:30,886 will use to establish in phase three 856 00:22:30,886 --> 00:22:33,087 what submission rights you have. 857 00:22:33,087 --> 00:22:33,753 Now, don't worry, 858 00:22:33,753 --> 00:22:35,220 you'll be able to change your role 859 00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:37,020 if you chose the wrong one originally, 860 00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:38,820 if you've already ID-verified. 861 00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:40,187 Now phase three, we haven't 862 00:22:40,187 --> 00:22:41,387 really fully developed 863 00:22:41,387 --> 00:22:43,187 phase three, but our current thinking 864 00:22:43,187 --> 00:22:44,521 is that owner accounts 865 00:22:44,521 --> 00:22:45,621 would have submission rights 866 00:22:45,621 --> 00:22:47,288 related to their own applications 867 00:22:47,288 --> 00:22:48,621 or registrations. 868 00:22:48,621 --> 00:22:50,455 And generally an attorney account 869 00:22:50,455 --> 00:22:51,555 would have submission rights 870 00:22:51,555 --> 00:22:52,688 for only those applications 871 00:22:52,688 --> 00:22:54,055 or registrations 872 00:22:54,055 --> 00:22:54,822 that are consistent 873 00:22:54,822 --> 00:22:56,255 with our recognition rules or, 874 00:22:56,255 --> 00:22:57,755 you know, who the attorney 875 00:22:57,755 --> 00:22:58,689 can appear 876 00:22:58,689 --> 00:23:00,689 before the office and represent. 877 00:23:00,689 --> 00:23:01,489 Attorney support 878 00:23:01,489 --> 00:23:02,289 staff would only have 879 00:23:02,289 --> 00:23:03,356 access to those files 880 00:23:03,356 --> 00:23:04,089 where their sponsoring 881 00:23:04,089 --> 00:23:05,589 attorney has access. 882 00:23:06,590 --> 00:23:07,590 So that's phase three. 883 00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:09,690 But we're we're still in phase two. 884 00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:10,723 So let's focus on that now. 885 00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:12,023 There are four 886 00:23:12,023 --> 00:23:13,090 available user roles 887 00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:14,390 that can correspond to 888 00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:15,990 those that are authorized 889 00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:17,124 to make submissions 890 00:23:17,124 --> 00:23:18,191 in trademark matters. 891 00:23:18,191 --> 00:23:19,957 And that's owners, attorneys, 892 00:23:19,957 --> 00:23:20,991 Canadian agents or 893 00:23:20,991 --> 00:23:22,624 attorneys, and Canadians, 894 00:23:22,624 --> 00:23:24,891 I'm sorry, attorney support staff. 895 00:23:24,891 --> 00:23:26,125 Now, owners and attorneys 896 00:23:26,125 --> 00:23:27,425 must verify their identities 897 00:23:27,425 --> 00:23:28,525 through the processes 898 00:23:28,525 --> 00:23:30,558 that Matt describes, through, 899 00:23:30,558 --> 00:23:31,958 you'll you'll find them on our ID 900 00:23:31,958 --> 00:23:33,792 verification web page. 901 00:23:33,792 --> 00:23:34,859 Attorney support staff, 902 00:23:34,859 --> 00:23:35,559 again, I'll reiterate, 903 00:23:35,559 --> 00:23:37,059 do not verify their identities 904 00:23:37,059 --> 00:23:38,626 through the paper or online process. 905 00:23:38,626 --> 00:23:40,793 Instead, the attorney who is sponsoring 906 00:23:40,793 --> 00:23:42,559 the support staff must verify 907 00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:44,226 the identity of the support staff, 908 00:23:44,226 --> 00:23:44,960 and I'll go into that 909 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,760 in a little bit more detail. 910 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:48,193 All right. 911 00:23:48,193 --> 00:23:51,060 So I'm going to go back up to to 912 00:23:51,594 --> 00:23:53,060 30,000 feet for a minute. 913 00:23:53,060 --> 00:23:53,827 I just told you there's 914 00:23:53,827 --> 00:23:54,861 four user roles, 915 00:23:54,861 --> 00:23:56,461 but really, in reality, 916 00:23:56,461 --> 00:23:57,061 there's really only 917 00:23:57,061 --> 00:23:58,994 two categories of people 918 00:23:58,994 --> 00:24:00,528 that should be making submissions 919 00:24:00,528 --> 00:24:02,395 to the USPTO under our rules. 920 00:24:02,395 --> 00:24:03,828 And that's owners 921 00:24:03,828 --> 00:24:06,228 and attorneys representing owners. 922 00:24:06,795 --> 00:24:08,195 Limiting user roles 923 00:24:08,195 --> 00:24:10,062 to these two categories 924 00:24:10,062 --> 00:24:11,162 will help us to ensure 925 00:24:11,162 --> 00:24:13,129 that whoever is filing 926 00:24:13,129 --> 00:24:15,896 a submission is acting as the owner or 927 00:24:15,896 --> 00:24:16,962 on behalf of the owner. 928 00:24:18,229 --> 00:24:20,429 Now, historically, our 929 00:24:20,429 --> 00:24:21,296 trademark registration 930 00:24:21,296 --> 00:24:22,330 was based on trust. 931 00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:23,630 In the past, 932 00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:24,730 we used to trust that 933 00:24:24,730 --> 00:24:26,230 the information provided 934 00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:27,197 to us was accurate. 935 00:24:27,197 --> 00:24:28,564 But we really don't live 936 00:24:28,564 --> 00:24:30,130 in that world anymore. 937 00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:31,764 And based on our experiences 938 00:24:31,764 --> 00:24:33,131 reviewing fraudulent submissions 939 00:24:33,131 --> 00:24:34,531 in the past few years, 940 00:24:34,531 --> 00:24:37,231 the USPTO does not have assurances 941 00:24:37,564 --> 00:24:39,031 that, in particular, non-attorney 942 00:24:39,031 --> 00:24:40,031 entities, that is, 943 00:24:40,031 --> 00:24:41,231 those engaging in the 944 00:24:41,231 --> 00:24:42,365 unauthorized practice 945 00:24:42,365 --> 00:24:43,732 of law or unauthorized 946 00:24:43,732 --> 00:24:44,898 representation of others 947 00:24:44,898 --> 00:24:46,232 before the USPTO, 948 00:24:46,232 --> 00:24:48,365 that those folks are not acting in the 949 00:24:48,365 --> 00:24:49,699 in, on behalf of the owner 950 00:24:49,699 --> 00:24:51,099 and they're not acting 951 00:24:51,099 --> 00:24:51,566 with the owner's 952 00:24:51,566 --> 00:24:52,599 knowledge of the information 953 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:54,666 contained in the submission. 954 00:24:54,666 --> 00:24:57,433 And we want to address that. 955 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,100 So user roles: owner. 956 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:03,000 Let's start with owner. 957 00:25:03,633 --> 00:25:04,767 A trademark owner, 958 00:25:04,767 --> 00:25:05,934 of course, can be an individual. 959 00:25:05,934 --> 00:25:07,134 It can be a juristic entity 960 00:25:07,134 --> 00:25:08,067 like a corporation 961 00:25:08,067 --> 00:25:09,967 or partnership or LLC. 962 00:25:09,967 --> 00:25:10,501 And therefore the 963 00:25:10,501 --> 00:25:12,234 trademark-verified USPTO.gov 964 00:25:12,234 --> 00:25:15,468 account owner role encompasses 965 00:25:15,701 --> 00:25:17,035 a person who's an individual 966 00:25:17,035 --> 00:25:18,635 and the owner of the mark, 967 00:25:18,635 --> 00:25:20,935 a person who can legally bind the owner 968 00:25:20,935 --> 00:25:22,335 (like a corporate officer 969 00:25:22,335 --> 00:25:24,702 or a partner in a partnership) 970 00:25:24,702 --> 00:25:27,069 and a person who is directly employed 971 00:25:27,069 --> 00:25:28,936 by a juristic entity 972 00:25:28,936 --> 00:25:30,936 owner, the trademark owner. 973 00:25:30,936 --> 00:25:33,169 Now it doesn't say on the slide, but 974 00:25:33,369 --> 00:25:34,603 the trademark-verified account 975 00:25:34,603 --> 00:25:35,503 agreement states 976 00:25:35,503 --> 00:25:37,136 that the direct employee 977 00:25:37,136 --> 00:25:39,670 must not have a financial interest 978 00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:40,970 in the outcome of the 979 00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:42,237 registration process. 980 00:25:42,237 --> 00:25:43,637 So I have an asterisk 981 00:25:43,637 --> 00:25:45,104 here on the slide, you'll see, 982 00:25:45,104 --> 00:25:46,937 because there's some nuance here. 983 00:25:46,937 --> 00:25:48,437 The word "direct" 984 00:25:48,437 --> 00:25:50,938 means that an outside non-attorney 985 00:25:50,938 --> 00:25:53,038 trademark preparation or filing firm 986 00:25:53,371 --> 00:25:54,671 cannot be considered 987 00:25:54,671 --> 00:25:56,638 an employee for the purposes 988 00:25:56,638 --> 00:25:58,572 of claiming the owner role. 989 00:25:58,572 --> 00:25:59,738 Similarly, the 990 00:25:59,738 --> 00:26:00,938 the employee should not have 991 00:26:00,938 --> 00:26:01,872 a financial interest 992 00:26:01,872 --> 00:26:03,005 in the outcome of the registration 993 00:26:03,005 --> 00:26:03,739 because again, 994 00:26:03,739 --> 00:26:04,872 we don't want those 995 00:26:04,872 --> 00:26:06,506 outside contractors, 996 00:26:06,506 --> 00:26:08,439 those outside non-attorney preparation 997 00:26:08,439 --> 00:26:10,173 firms to claim the owner role. 998 00:26:11,273 --> 00:26:12,706 We need to be able to trust 999 00:26:12,706 --> 00:26:13,540 that the submissions from 1000 00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:14,373 the owner can be deemed 1001 00:26:14,373 --> 00:26:15,340 to be an act of the owner 1002 00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:16,140 because they're authorized 1003 00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:17,040 by the owner. 1004 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,607 They're made at the owner's request. 1005 00:26:18,607 --> 00:26:19,207 And they're made with 1006 00:26:19,207 --> 00:26:21,140 specific knowledge of the information 1007 00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:23,140 contained in the submission. 1008 00:26:23,140 --> 00:26:23,774 Now, 1009 00:26:24,140 --> 00:26:25,307 what we don't want to see to get around 1010 00:26:25,307 --> 00:26:26,807 this is, we don't want to see owners 1011 00:26:26,807 --> 00:26:28,241 sharing their login credentials 1012 00:26:28,241 --> 00:26:28,974 with their employees. 1013 00:26:28,974 --> 00:26:30,741 That would be an account 1014 00:26:30,741 --> 00:26:32,275 agreement violation. 1015 00:26:32,275 --> 00:26:32,875 And I'm going to repeat 1016 00:26:32,875 --> 00:26:34,141 this for clarity. 1017 00:26:34,141 --> 00:26:36,008 There cannot be multiple users 1018 00:26:36,008 --> 00:26:37,742 for one account. Nope. 1019 00:26:37,742 --> 00:26:38,808 So a corporate officer 1020 00:26:38,808 --> 00:26:40,375 cannot establish an account 1021 00:26:40,375 --> 00:26:41,275 and then share that 1022 00:26:41,275 --> 00:26:42,409 with several employees. 1023 00:26:42,409 --> 00:26:45,442 Each account is tied to an individual 1024 00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:47,343 and that individual's identity 1025 00:26:47,343 --> 00:26:48,343 must be verified 1026 00:26:48,343 --> 00:26:49,443 or attested to by 1027 00:26:49,443 --> 00:26:50,543 the sponsoring attorney 1028 00:26:50,543 --> 00:26:52,510 so that the USPTO can monitor 1029 00:26:52,510 --> 00:26:53,743 filing activities 1030 00:26:53,743 --> 00:26:55,677 and sanction the appropriate party 1031 00:26:55,677 --> 00:26:57,743 if there is misuse of the account. 1032 00:26:59,077 --> 00:26:59,710 Moving on to the 1033 00:26:59,710 --> 00:27:00,410 second category, 1034 00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:02,144 I think it's pretty self-explanatory, 1035 00:27:02,144 --> 00:27:03,611 but let's talk about it a little bit. 1036 00:27:03,611 --> 00:27:03,911 The U.S.-licensed 1037 00:27:03,911 --> 00:27:05,611 attorney role is for a U.S.- 1038 00:27:05,611 --> 00:27:06,911 licensed attorney, 1039 00:27:06,911 --> 00:27:09,011 but they need to be in good standing 1040 00:27:09,011 --> 00:27:09,545 of the bar, 1041 00:27:09,545 --> 00:27:10,811 the highest, of the highest court 1042 00:27:10,811 --> 00:27:12,511 of that state or territory. 1043 00:27:12,511 --> 00:27:14,778 A trademark consultant or paralegal 1044 00:27:14,778 --> 00:27:16,178 who is not an attorney 1045 00:27:16,178 --> 00:27:18,045 nor affiliated with 1046 00:27:18,045 --> 00:27:19,745 or supervised by an attorney, 1047 00:27:19,745 --> 00:27:22,346 cannot claim the attorney role. 1048 00:27:22,346 --> 00:27:23,946 If that paralegal is directly 1049 00:27:23,946 --> 00:27:25,346 supervised by an attorney, 1050 00:27:25,346 --> 00:27:27,679 that attorney may sponsor the paralegal 1051 00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:30,113 in a support staff account. 1052 00:27:30,113 --> 00:27:31,580 A third category: Canadians. 1053 00:27:31,580 --> 00:27:32,813 This might surprise a lot of folks. 1054 00:27:32,813 --> 00:27:33,913 Why Canada? 1055 00:27:33,913 --> 00:27:35,280 Well, we actually have 1056 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,480 a really old agreement 1057 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,647 with Canada to recognize 1058 00:27:37,647 --> 00:27:39,381 certain Canadian practitioners 1059 00:27:39,381 --> 00:27:40,847 and allow them to represent 1060 00:27:40,847 --> 00:27:42,347 Canadian applicants before the office. 1061 00:27:42,347 --> 00:27:43,181 In return, 1062 00:27:44,381 --> 00:27:45,348 Canada reciprocally 1063 00:27:45,348 --> 00:27:46,414 recognizes some U.S. 1064 00:27:46,414 --> 00:27:47,781 attorneys to represent applicants 1065 00:27:47,781 --> 00:27:49,681 before the Canadian office. 1066 00:27:49,681 --> 00:27:51,015 So the Canadian agents 1067 00:27:51,015 --> 00:27:52,748 and attorneys in this user role 1068 00:27:52,748 --> 00:27:54,182 are limited in their ability 1069 00:27:54,182 --> 00:27:55,315 to make submissions 1070 00:27:55,315 --> 00:27:56,115 to the USPTO 1071 00:27:56,115 --> 00:27:57,349 by what is reciprocally 1072 00:27:57,349 --> 00:27:58,849 recognized for U.S. 1073 00:27:58,849 --> 00:28:00,182 attorneys to do in Canada. 1074 00:28:00,182 --> 00:28:01,449 So there's definitely some rules 1075 00:28:01,449 --> 00:28:02,783 around this process, 1076 00:28:02,783 --> 00:28:03,849 overseen by the Office 1077 00:28:03,849 --> 00:28:05,416 of Enrollment and Discipline. 1078 00:28:05,416 --> 00:28:06,916 The only submission 1079 00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:07,783 the Canadian attorney 1080 00:28:07,783 --> 00:28:08,683 or agent may validate 1081 00:28:08,683 --> 00:28:10,050 and submit through TEAS or TEASi 1082 00:28:10,050 --> 00:28:12,350 is a new trademark application. 1083 00:28:12,350 --> 00:28:12,850 A U.S.-licensed 1084 00:28:12,850 --> 00:28:15,084 attorney must validate or file 1085 00:28:15,084 --> 00:28:17,484 all other submissions to the USPTO 1086 00:28:17,484 --> 00:28:19,584 for the Canadian associate attorney. 1087 00:28:19,584 --> 00:28:22,718 This is in TMEP 602.03(a) 1088 00:28:22,718 --> 00:28:24,018 for those Canadians 1089 00:28:24,018 --> 00:28:25,785 in our audience today. 1090 00:28:25,785 --> 00:28:27,851 Attorney support staff: the fourth role. 1091 00:28:27,851 --> 00:28:29,185 It's also a limited role 1092 00:28:29,185 --> 00:28:30,352 because attorney support staff 1093 00:28:30,352 --> 00:28:32,119 are not authorized to make submissions 1094 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:33,385 to the USPTO under our rules 1095 00:28:33,385 --> 00:28:35,719 unless they are directly 1096 00:28:35,719 --> 00:28:37,552 supervised by an attorney. 1097 00:28:40,386 --> 00:28:41,719 So a U.S.-licensed 1098 00:28:41,719 --> 00:28:42,686 attorney or 1099 00:28:42,686 --> 00:28:43,686 Canadian agent or attorney 1100 00:28:43,686 --> 00:28:45,886 may sponsor their support staff 1101 00:28:45,886 --> 00:28:47,353 in their accounts. 1102 00:28:47,353 --> 00:28:48,487 Now these requirements, as Matt 1103 00:28:48,487 --> 00:28:49,187 said, are laid out 1104 00:28:49,187 --> 00:28:51,754 in the trademark sponsorship tool. 1105 00:28:51,754 --> 00:28:52,787 Again, the support 1106 00:28:52,787 --> 00:28:53,754 staffs are not verified 1107 00:28:53,754 --> 00:28:55,687 through online or paper process. 1108 00:28:55,687 --> 00:28:56,887 Attorneys must verify 1109 00:28:56,887 --> 00:28:57,787 the support staff. 1110 00:28:57,787 --> 00:28:59,354 So the sponsorship tool 1111 00:28:59,354 --> 00:29:01,621 guide says for, quote, "for U.S.- 1112 00:29:01,621 --> 00:29:03,955 based support staff, individual 1113 00:29:03,955 --> 00:29:04,921 use of the identity 1114 00:29:04,921 --> 00:29:05,688 proofing process 1115 00:29:05,688 --> 00:29:09,122 associated with USCIS form I-9 1116 00:29:09,455 --> 00:29:11,089 would be considered to be consistent 1117 00:29:11,089 --> 00:29:11,822 with the resolution 1118 00:29:11,822 --> 00:29:12,789 of identity required 1119 00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:15,056 by the digital identity guidelines." 1120 00:29:15,056 --> 00:29:17,056 So for those of you who have, 1121 00:29:17,056 --> 00:29:18,256 you know, started employment 1122 00:29:18,256 --> 00:29:19,956 with an organization, you know 1123 00:29:19,956 --> 00:29:20,890 there is an employment 1124 00:29:20,890 --> 00:29:22,756 check with the I-9 form, 1125 00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:24,423 usually. That should be, 1126 00:29:24,423 --> 00:29:26,723 that's the typical employment check 1127 00:29:26,723 --> 00:29:28,457 and that would suffice for purposes 1128 00:29:28,457 --> 00:29:30,357 of this identity verification process, 1129 00:29:30,357 --> 00:29:32,491 the new employee onboarding process. 1130 00:29:33,724 --> 00:29:34,091 Okay. 1131 00:29:34,091 --> 00:29:35,324 So again, we're going 1132 00:29:35,324 --> 00:29:36,191 to talk a little bit more 1133 00:29:36,191 --> 00:29:38,491 about the attorney sponsorship 1134 00:29:38,491 --> 00:29:40,025 obligations, because I know 1135 00:29:40,025 --> 00:29:42,091 attorneys like to know the rules. 1136 00:29:42,558 --> 00:29:44,125 Under USPTO rules, 1137 00:29:44,125 --> 00:29:45,525 attorneys are, of course, 1138 00:29:45,525 --> 00:29:46,625 allowed to have support staff 1139 00:29:46,625 --> 00:29:48,025 to assist in practicing 1140 00:29:48,025 --> 00:29:49,692 before the USPTO. 1141 00:29:49,692 --> 00:29:51,826 This comes with a caveat, though. 1142 00:29:51,826 --> 00:29:52,726 The support staff, as I 1143 00:29:52,726 --> 00:29:53,792 said, must be directly 1144 00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:55,859 supervised by the attorney. 1145 00:29:55,859 --> 00:29:58,793 To ensure that direct supervision, 1146 00:29:58,793 --> 00:29:59,293 the rules say the 1147 00:29:59,293 --> 00:30:00,526 attorney is responsible 1148 00:30:00,526 --> 00:30:01,426 for any submission 1149 00:30:01,426 --> 00:30:03,927 filed by the attorney support staff. 1150 00:30:03,927 --> 00:30:05,827 We are already aware 1151 00:30:05,827 --> 00:30:07,260 that there are some U.S.- 1152 00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:08,727 licensed attorneys 1153 00:30:08,727 --> 00:30:10,294 who are sponsoring support staff 1154 00:30:10,294 --> 00:30:12,394 that are not directly employed by 1155 00:30:12,394 --> 00:30:14,561 or directly supervised by the attorney. 1156 00:30:14,561 --> 00:30:16,228 And this is typically foreign 1157 00:30:16,228 --> 00:30:18,228 filing firm personnel. 1158 00:30:18,228 --> 00:30:20,228 This is not allowed 1159 00:30:20,228 --> 00:30:21,328 under the account agreement. 1160 00:30:22,628 --> 00:30:24,562 Once we find submissions 1161 00:30:24,562 --> 00:30:26,162 emanating from these accounts 1162 00:30:26,162 --> 00:30:28,162 that they're fraudulent, 1163 00:30:28,162 --> 00:30:29,496 that sponsored support 1164 00:30:29,496 --> 00:30:31,529 staff account will be terminated 1165 00:30:31,529 --> 00:30:32,829 and the attorney account 1166 00:30:32,829 --> 00:30:35,229 will likely be terminated as well. 1167 00:30:35,530 --> 00:30:36,563 So if you are, 1168 00:30:36,563 --> 00:30:38,230 if you are renting out 1169 00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:39,463 support staff accounts 1170 00:30:39,463 --> 00:30:41,063 to foreign attorneys 1171 00:30:41,063 --> 00:30:42,230 and fraudulent filings 1172 00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:43,664 start coming from those support staff 1173 00:30:43,664 --> 00:30:44,564 accounts, you're 1174 00:30:44,564 --> 00:30:45,464 going to lose your account 1175 00:30:45,464 --> 00:30:47,131 as well as the supervising attorney 1176 00:30:47,131 --> 00:30:48,864 because you're not supervising 1177 00:30:48,864 --> 00:30:51,131 nor following the agreement. 1178 00:30:51,131 --> 00:30:53,298 We will likely refer you to the USPTO's 1179 00:30:53,298 --> 00:30:54,265 Office of Enrollment 1180 00:30:54,265 --> 00:30:55,965 and Discipline, OED, 1181 00:30:55,965 --> 00:30:57,498 for attorney misconduct. 1182 00:30:57,498 --> 00:30:59,032 So be careful. 1183 00:30:59,032 --> 00:31:00,565 Furthermore, the filings 1184 00:31:00,565 --> 00:31:02,032 featuring rule violations 1185 00:31:02,032 --> 00:31:02,865 will be reviewed 1186 00:31:02,865 --> 00:31:03,832 under our administrative 1187 00:31:03,832 --> 00:31:05,099 sanctions program 1188 00:31:05,099 --> 00:31:06,266 for possible sanctions 1189 00:31:06,266 --> 00:31:07,899 that may include termination 1190 00:31:07,899 --> 00:31:10,099 of the tainted applications. 1191 00:31:10,099 --> 00:31:11,866 These applications are tainted because 1192 00:31:11,866 --> 00:31:13,866 they feature rule violations. 1193 00:31:16,466 --> 00:31:17,367 Okay. 1194 00:31:17,733 --> 00:31:19,000 I'm going to probably get into 1195 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,233 that heavy-handed mode again, 1196 00:31:20,233 --> 00:31:21,167 but let's back up a little bit. 1197 00:31:21,167 --> 00:31:21,734 Okay. 1198 00:31:21,734 --> 00:31:23,967 You can have one account. 1199 00:31:23,967 --> 00:31:24,901 And for most filers, 1200 00:31:24,901 --> 00:31:26,134 there will be only one 1201 00:31:26,134 --> 00:31:27,267 role that applies. 1202 00:31:27,267 --> 00:31:28,334 So as you're trying to figure out 1203 00:31:28,334 --> 00:31:29,468 what role applies to you, 1204 00:31:29,468 --> 00:31:31,401 let's go through some scenarios. 1205 00:31:31,401 --> 00:31:32,768 If you're the owner of the mark, 1206 00:31:32,768 --> 00:31:34,101 you control an entity 1207 00:31:34,101 --> 00:31:34,835 that owns the mark, 1208 00:31:34,835 --> 00:31:35,602 or you are a direct 1209 00:31:35,602 --> 00:31:36,968 employee of the entity 1210 00:31:36,968 --> 00:31:37,668 that owns the mark, 1211 00:31:37,668 --> 00:31:40,135 you choose the owner role. 1212 00:31:40,135 --> 00:31:41,569 If you are an owner 1213 00:31:41,569 --> 00:31:43,369 and you're represented by counsel, 1214 00:31:43,369 --> 00:31:44,569 this is internal counsel 1215 00:31:44,569 --> 00:31:45,736 or external counsel, 1216 00:31:45,736 --> 00:31:48,069 you don't need an account at all. 1217 00:31:48,769 --> 00:31:50,470 The corporate officer can sign 1218 00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:52,136 trademark documents without an account 1219 00:31:52,136 --> 00:31:53,870 and just return them to the counsel 1220 00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:55,070 who can submit them. 1221 00:31:55,070 --> 00:31:56,670 So the corporate counsel 1222 00:31:56,670 --> 00:31:57,637 has their own account, 1223 00:31:57,637 --> 00:31:58,970 but the corporate officer doesn't 1224 00:31:58,970 --> 00:32:00,570 necessarily need an account 1225 00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:01,837 if they're represented by counsel. 1226 00:32:03,437 --> 00:32:04,504 If you are a small 1227 00:32:04,504 --> 00:32:06,138 juristic entity owner, 1228 00:32:06,138 --> 00:32:07,371 you may not allow 1229 00:32:07,371 --> 00:32:08,804 your external counsel, 1230 00:32:08,804 --> 00:32:10,071 your contractor, law firm 1231 00:32:10,071 --> 00:32:10,905 working on your matters 1232 00:32:10,905 --> 00:32:12,071 to create an owner account. 1233 00:32:12,071 --> 00:32:14,138 That outside law firm 1234 00:32:14,138 --> 00:32:15,505 that, those attorneys should verify 1235 00:32:15,505 --> 00:32:16,672 their own USPTO.gov 1236 00:32:16,672 --> 00:32:19,339 accounts in the attorney role. 1237 00:32:19,339 --> 00:32:21,072 Now, if you're both an owner 1238 00:32:21,072 --> 00:32:22,439 and an attorney that engages 1239 00:32:22,439 --> 00:32:23,206 in the practice of law 1240 00:32:23,206 --> 00:32:24,339 as part of your ordinary 1241 00:32:24,339 --> 00:32:25,106 job activities, 1242 00:32:25,106 --> 00:32:26,606 you should select the attorney role. 1243 00:32:26,606 --> 00:32:27,840 This might be a general counsel 1244 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,240 who's an officer, but also counsel. 1245 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:30,840 But you should go 1246 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,040 with the attorney role. 1247 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,940 The attorney role 1248 00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:35,874 allows you to touch more files 1249 00:32:36,207 --> 00:32:36,940 where you are the, 1250 00:32:36,940 --> 00:32:39,074 you have recognition rights. 1251 00:32:40,774 --> 00:32:42,107 The attorney role. 1252 00:32:42,107 --> 00:32:43,141 If you're a U.S.- 1253 00:32:43,141 --> 00:32:44,508 licensed attorney who practices 1254 00:32:44,508 --> 00:32:46,141 trademark law for external clients 1255 00:32:46,141 --> 00:32:47,141 or internally as in-house, 1256 00:32:47,141 --> 00:32:48,341 you choose the attorney role. 1257 00:32:48,341 --> 00:32:50,108 If you're a Canadian attorney or agent 1258 00:32:50,108 --> 00:32:51,108 and you have been 1259 00:32:51,108 --> 00:32:52,775 reciprocally recognized by the 1260 00:32:52,775 --> 00:32:53,675 USPTO's Office of 1261 00:32:53,675 --> 00:32:54,975 Enrollment and Discipline, 1262 00:32:54,975 --> 00:32:57,275 you choose the Canadian agent 1263 00:32:57,275 --> 00:32:58,309 or attorney role. 1264 00:32:58,309 --> 00:33:00,076 If you're not reciprocally recognized, 1265 00:33:00,076 --> 00:33:02,243 you may not have a role. 1266 00:33:02,243 --> 00:33:03,709 Either role (the attorney 1267 00:33:03,709 --> 00:33:05,576 or the Canadian attorney 1268 00:33:05,576 --> 00:33:07,043 or agent role) will let you sponsor 1269 00:33:07,043 --> 00:33:08,010 and manage your attorney 1270 00:33:08,010 --> 00:33:09,443 support staff's accounts. 1271 00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:12,844 Attorney support staff. 1272 00:33:13,044 --> 00:33:15,110 An attorney may not sponsor 1273 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:17,144 other attorneys who work under 1274 00:33:17,144 --> 00:33:18,777 their supervision as support staff. 1275 00:33:18,777 --> 00:33:20,311 So if you're a law firm partner 1276 00:33:20,311 --> 00:33:22,144 and you have associate attorneys 1277 00:33:22,144 --> 00:33:24,411 who are, you are directly supervising, 1278 00:33:24,411 --> 00:33:25,545 they're not support staff. 1279 00:33:25,545 --> 00:33:26,378 They're an attorney. 1280 00:33:26,378 --> 00:33:28,012 They need to get their own ID- 1281 00:33:28,012 --> 00:33:30,045 verified account. 1282 00:33:30,045 --> 00:33:32,312 If the support staff. 1283 00:33:32,312 --> 00:33:33,179 If this. Let's see. 1284 00:33:33,179 --> 00:33:34,612 Each attorney 1285 00:33:34,612 --> 00:33:35,912 must verify their own identity 1286 00:33:35,912 --> 00:33:38,212 before they can sponsor 1287 00:33:38,212 --> 00:33:39,746 support staff. 1288 00:33:39,746 --> 00:33:40,846 And if that support staff 1289 00:33:40,846 --> 00:33:41,779 provide support work 1290 00:33:41,779 --> 00:33:42,880 under the direct supervision 1291 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,880 of one or more attorneys, 1292 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,880 each of those supervising attorneys 1293 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,147 have to sponsor that person 1294 00:33:48,147 --> 00:33:49,780 as their support staff 1295 00:33:49,780 --> 00:33:51,280 so that that support staff 1296 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,114 then can touch each of those attorneys', 1297 00:33:53,114 --> 00:33:55,881 the different attorneys' files. 1298 00:33:57,214 --> 00:33:58,248 There'll be more information about 1299 00:33:58,248 --> 00:33:59,381 this on our web page. 1300 00:34:00,381 --> 00:34:00,681 Okay. 1301 00:34:00,681 --> 00:34:03,148 Who's not in these user roles? 1302 00:34:03,848 --> 00:34:05,548 Non-attorney preparation 1303 00:34:05,548 --> 00:34:07,382 and filing entities are not included 1304 00:34:07,382 --> 00:34:09,082 in these user roles. 1305 00:34:09,082 --> 00:34:09,882 Under our rules, 1306 00:34:09,882 --> 00:34:11,015 they are not authorized 1307 00:34:11,015 --> 00:34:12,315 to prepare trademark filings. 1308 00:34:12,315 --> 00:34:14,282 They are not authorized 1309 00:34:14,282 --> 00:34:15,582 to do clearance searches 1310 00:34:15,582 --> 00:34:17,149 with registrability opinions. 1311 00:34:17,149 --> 00:34:18,049 And they cannot give 1312 00:34:18,049 --> 00:34:19,683 legal advice at all. 1313 00:34:19,683 --> 00:34:21,516 They cannot represent owners, owners 1314 00:34:21,516 --> 00:34:22,416 before the USPTO, 1315 00:34:22,416 --> 00:34:24,117 and they cannot provide legal advice 1316 00:34:24,117 --> 00:34:25,050 and prepare submissions 1317 00:34:25,050 --> 00:34:26,417 for the owner to submit. 1318 00:34:26,417 --> 00:34:28,017 The only thing they can do under 1319 00:34:28,017 --> 00:34:28,650 our rule, 1320 00:34:28,650 --> 00:34:30,850 rules is to transmit the filing 1321 00:34:30,850 --> 00:34:31,584 if they can meet 1322 00:34:31,584 --> 00:34:35,451 the certifications under 37 CFR 11.18. 1323 00:34:35,451 --> 00:34:36,018 We'll talk about that 1324 00:34:36,018 --> 00:34:37,151 a little bit more. 1325 00:34:37,351 --> 00:34:38,651 But so if we established 1326 00:34:38,651 --> 00:34:39,885 a user role for that one 1327 00:34:39,885 --> 00:34:41,018 function of transmittal 1328 00:34:41,018 --> 00:34:41,951 because that's all they can do, 1329 00:34:41,951 --> 00:34:42,752 we would certainly see 1330 00:34:42,752 --> 00:34:44,585 a lot of users continue 1331 00:34:44,585 --> 00:34:45,252 to engage in the 1332 00:34:45,252 --> 00:34:46,652 unauthorized practice of law 1333 00:34:46,652 --> 00:34:47,619 because while the transmittal 1334 00:34:47,619 --> 00:34:48,719 of the submissions 1335 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,686 may not constitute the practice of law, 1336 00:34:50,686 --> 00:34:52,652 it's nearly impossible for the USPTO 1337 00:34:52,652 --> 00:34:54,553 to know where the practice of law ends 1338 00:34:54,553 --> 00:34:56,753 and that transmittal begins. 1339 00:34:56,753 --> 00:34:58,320 Cutting down on those 1340 00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,986 who can have a verified account 1341 00:34:59,986 --> 00:35:02,120 will assist us with deterring 1342 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,020 and discouraging the 1343 00:35:03,020 --> 00:35:04,453 unauthorized practice of law. 1344 00:35:05,987 --> 00:35:07,587 Now that third category, Canadian 1345 00:35:07,587 --> 00:35:08,887 role, is likewise limited 1346 00:35:08,887 --> 00:35:10,687 to a small number of practitioners, 1347 00:35:10,687 --> 00:35:12,721 reciprocally recognized and regulated 1348 00:35:12,988 --> 00:35:15,221 by both the Canadian office and OED. 1349 00:35:16,588 --> 00:35:17,588 If you are a U.S.- 1350 00:35:17,588 --> 00:35:18,355 licensed attorney 1351 00:35:18,355 --> 00:35:19,655 and you have many foreign 1352 00:35:19,655 --> 00:35:21,655 domiciled clients who use 1353 00:35:21,655 --> 00:35:23,022 foreign trademark firms 1354 00:35:23,022 --> 00:35:26,089 for consultation, you may not sponsor 1355 00:35:26,089 --> 00:35:28,022 a foreign trademark firm associate's 1356 00:35:28,022 --> 00:35:30,056 USPTO.gov account. 1357 00:35:30,056 --> 00:35:31,523 You may not sponsor 1358 00:35:31,523 --> 00:35:33,623 a foreign or domestic company, group, 1359 00:35:33,623 --> 00:35:35,356 client, agent, attorney, 1360 00:35:35,356 --> 00:35:36,890 or other practitioner. 1361 00:35:36,890 --> 00:35:39,457 You may only sponsor support staff 1362 00:35:39,457 --> 00:35:40,690 that are employed by your firm 1363 00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:42,423 or company and work directly for you 1364 00:35:42,423 --> 00:35:44,690 under your direct supervision. 1365 00:35:46,324 --> 00:35:48,457 Now, this is an uncomfortable 1366 00:35:48,524 --> 00:35:49,691 conversation about the 1367 00:35:49,691 --> 00:35:51,324 unauthorized practice of law. 1368 00:35:51,324 --> 00:35:53,024 And I'm not the expert. 1369 00:35:53,024 --> 00:35:53,758 That's the Office 1370 00:35:53,758 --> 00:35:54,725 of Enrollment and Discipline. 1371 00:35:54,725 --> 00:35:55,558 But we have to go there 1372 00:35:55,558 --> 00:35:57,758 a little bit together today. 1373 00:35:58,358 --> 00:36:00,092 Now, while the practice 1374 00:36:00,092 --> 00:36:01,125 of law is regulated 1375 00:36:01,125 --> 00:36:02,459 by state bar associations, 1376 00:36:02,459 --> 00:36:04,392 in fact as a federal agency, 1377 00:36:04,392 --> 00:36:06,592 the USPTO has the authority 1378 00:36:06,592 --> 00:36:08,326 to regulate the conduct of proceedings 1379 00:36:08,326 --> 00:36:09,226 before the office, 1380 00:36:10,293 --> 00:36:11,259 to regulate the conduct 1381 00:36:11,259 --> 00:36:12,926 of those who appear before the office 1382 00:36:12,926 --> 00:36:14,060 in proceedings, 1383 00:36:14,060 --> 00:36:15,793 and to manage and direct 1384 00:36:15,793 --> 00:36:17,060 all aspects of the 1385 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:19,260 trademark operations. 1386 00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:21,494 USPTO rules govern conduct 1387 00:36:21,494 --> 00:36:23,060 of both practitioners 1388 00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:24,794 and non-practitioners 1389 00:36:24,794 --> 00:36:26,194 and they provide sanctions 1390 00:36:26,194 --> 00:36:28,528 for noncompliance with our rules. 1391 00:36:28,528 --> 00:36:29,994 Practice before the office 1392 00:36:29,994 --> 00:36:30,894 in trademark matters 1393 00:36:30,894 --> 00:36:33,295 is is described in our rules 1394 00:36:33,295 --> 00:36:34,995 and any person engaging 1395 00:36:34,995 --> 00:36:36,428 in unauthorized practice of law 1396 00:36:36,428 --> 00:36:37,528 in trademark matters before 1397 00:36:37,528 --> 00:36:39,829 the office is subject to investigation, 1398 00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:41,529 possible administrative sanctions, 1399 00:36:41,529 --> 00:36:42,429 including sanctions 1400 00:36:42,429 --> 00:36:43,929 that may affect the validity 1401 00:36:43,929 --> 00:36:46,029 of submissions made by that person. 1402 00:36:46,663 --> 00:36:48,163 So what does practice include? 1403 00:36:48,163 --> 00:36:49,563 You can see it up here on the screen. 1404 00:36:49,563 --> 00:36:51,063 This is in the rule. 1405 00:36:51,063 --> 00:36:53,230 Practice before the office includes any 1406 00:36:53,230 --> 00:36:55,363 law-related service that comprehends 1407 00:36:55,630 --> 00:36:56,797 any matter connected 1408 00:36:56,797 --> 00:36:58,530 with the presentation to the office 1409 00:36:58,530 --> 00:36:59,964 relating to a client's rights, 1410 00:36:59,964 --> 00:37:01,997 privileges, duties, or responsibilities 1411 00:37:01,997 --> 00:37:03,797 for the registration of a trademark. 1412 00:37:03,797 --> 00:37:04,998 And there are examples 1413 00:37:04,998 --> 00:37:06,931 in the rules in those four 1414 00:37:06,931 --> 00:37:07,998 squares below. 1415 00:37:10,098 --> 00:37:11,398 If you have questions about 1416 00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:12,565 specific fact patterns 1417 00:37:12,565 --> 00:37:13,565 and whether they represent 1418 00:37:13,565 --> 00:37:15,232 the unauthorized practice of law, 1419 00:37:15,232 --> 00:37:16,165 ask OED. 1420 00:37:16,165 --> 00:37:18,699 They are the experts. 1421 00:37:18,699 --> 00:37:19,565 If you call them, 1422 00:37:19,565 --> 00:37:22,466 OED has an attorney of the day on duty. 1423 00:37:23,232 --> 00:37:24,699 They'll take anonymous calls 1424 00:37:24,699 --> 00:37:26,699 with no records kept. 1425 00:37:26,699 --> 00:37:27,700 You can 1426 00:37:28,266 --> 00:37:29,100 you can use the phone. 1427 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:29,866 There's a phone number 1428 00:37:29,866 --> 00:37:30,666 on their website: 1429 00:37:30,666 --> 00:37:33,100 571-272-4097. 1430 00:37:33,100 --> 00:37:34,033 Or you can email them 1431 00:37:34,033 --> 00:37:36,267 at OED@uspto.gov. 1432 00:37:36,267 --> 00:37:37,200 They will discuss. 1433 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,801 They're very friendly, by the way. 1434 00:37:38,801 --> 00:37:39,567 They will discuss 1435 00:37:39,567 --> 00:37:41,001 the fact patterns with you 1436 00:37:41,001 --> 00:37:41,701 and they'll point you 1437 00:37:41,701 --> 00:37:43,201 to the specific rules at issue 1438 00:37:43,201 --> 00:37:44,401 to provide you with guidance. 1439 00:37:44,401 --> 00:37:45,301 But they won't issue 1440 00:37:45,301 --> 00:37:46,435 those formal opinions 1441 00:37:46,435 --> 00:37:48,001 that you get from a state bar, though. 1442 00:37:48,001 --> 00:37:50,168 But they will certainly engage with you 1443 00:37:50,602 --> 00:37:51,768 and talk about the rules. 1444 00:37:55,435 --> 00:37:57,235 So non-attorney entities do 1445 00:37:57,235 --> 00:37:58,669 exist but they are very limited 1446 00:37:58,669 --> 00:37:59,469 in what they can do 1447 00:37:59,469 --> 00:38:01,203 without running afoul of our rules. 1448 00:38:01,203 --> 00:38:02,403 Now, over the years, 1449 00:38:02,403 --> 00:38:03,869 we all know, due to, 1450 00:38:03,869 --> 00:38:05,136 I guess, a lack of attention 1451 00:38:05,136 --> 00:38:06,336 and enforcement, 1452 00:38:06,336 --> 00:38:08,403 non-attorney entities have expanded 1453 00:38:08,403 --> 00:38:10,003 into the practice of law 1454 00:38:10,003 --> 00:38:11,803 as our customers seek low cost 1455 00:38:11,803 --> 00:38:13,437 trademark filing options. 1456 00:38:13,437 --> 00:38:15,504 This is a mistake. 1457 00:38:15,504 --> 00:38:16,671 Non-attorney entities 1458 00:38:16,671 --> 00:38:19,571 can offer trademark information, 1459 00:38:19,971 --> 00:38:21,304 but not advice. 1460 00:38:21,304 --> 00:38:23,838 They can act as a mere scrivener, 1461 00:38:24,438 --> 00:38:25,671 a scribe, 1462 00:38:25,671 --> 00:38:27,171 when assisting in the preparation 1463 00:38:27,171 --> 00:38:28,505 of trademark documents, 1464 00:38:28,505 --> 00:38:29,972 but, so they can take down 1465 00:38:29,972 --> 00:38:32,339 what a principal officer tells them, 1466 00:38:32,339 --> 00:38:34,305 but they cannot prepare the application 1467 00:38:34,305 --> 00:38:35,939 because that typically 1468 00:38:35,939 --> 00:38:38,139 requires legal advice to try to, 1469 00:38:38,139 --> 00:38:38,973 as you fill out the 1470 00:38:38,973 --> 00:38:40,039 application on your own. 1471 00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:41,773 But if some some principal officer 1472 00:38:41,773 --> 00:38:43,340 is telling you what to do, 1473 00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:44,706 then that is not considered 1474 00:38:44,706 --> 00:38:45,573 the practice of law. 1475 00:38:45,573 --> 00:38:46,640 But, of course, fine line. 1476 00:38:47,607 --> 00:38:49,007 These non-attorney 1477 00:38:49,007 --> 00:38:51,307 entities can conduct trademark searches, 1478 00:38:51,707 --> 00:38:52,940 but they cannot provide 1479 00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:54,474 registrability opinions. 1480 00:38:54,474 --> 00:38:55,107 So they're not doing 1481 00:38:55,107 --> 00:38:56,007 a clearance search. 1482 00:38:56,007 --> 00:38:58,074 They're just doing a search. 1483 00:38:58,074 --> 00:39:00,741 Our user roles do not accommodate, 1484 00:39:00,741 --> 00:39:01,408 and maybe this comes 1485 00:39:01,408 --> 00:39:02,508 as a surprise to some of you. 1486 00:39:02,508 --> 00:39:04,175 They do not accommodate, accommodate 1487 00:39:04,175 --> 00:39:05,808 these types of entities 1488 00:39:05,808 --> 00:39:06,942 because they do not have 1489 00:39:06,942 --> 00:39:07,608 submission rights 1490 00:39:07,608 --> 00:39:09,175 and they likely cannot certify 1491 00:39:09,175 --> 00:39:13,409 the submission under 37 CFR 11.18(b). 1492 00:39:13,409 --> 00:39:14,609 And I encourage you 1493 00:39:14,609 --> 00:39:16,109 to pull that up on your screen 1494 00:39:16,109 --> 00:39:17,209 and see what it says. Again: 1495 00:39:17,209 --> 00:39:20,576 37 CFR 11.18(b). 1496 00:39:21,543 --> 00:39:22,676 Any resulting application 1497 00:39:22,676 --> 00:39:24,310 or registration, registration 1498 00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:25,243 featuring the unauthorized 1499 00:39:25,243 --> 00:39:26,710 practice of law along with other 1500 00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:27,944 rule violations, 1501 00:39:27,944 --> 00:39:28,877 could be subject 1502 00:39:28,877 --> 00:39:30,844 to sanctions and terminations. 1503 00:39:30,844 --> 00:39:32,877 Termination of the applications. 1504 00:39:32,877 --> 00:39:34,477 Now I want to go off 1505 00:39:34,477 --> 00:39:35,744 on a slight tangent here. 1506 00:39:35,744 --> 00:39:36,478 Maybe you think I've gone 1507 00:39:36,478 --> 00:39:37,211 on a lot of tangents, 1508 00:39:37,211 --> 00:39:37,811 but here's one I'm 1509 00:39:37,811 --> 00:39:38,878 definitely calling out. 1510 00:39:38,878 --> 00:39:40,145 I want to highlight a point 1511 00:39:40,145 --> 00:39:41,345 about corporate paralegals 1512 00:39:41,345 --> 00:39:42,778 in this context of this slide 1513 00:39:42,778 --> 00:39:43,878 explaining how non-attorneys 1514 00:39:43,878 --> 00:39:45,112 cannot practice law. 1515 00:39:46,345 --> 00:39:48,079 If a small juristic 1516 00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:49,112 trademark entity owner 1517 00:39:49,112 --> 00:39:51,246 such as a small corporation, LLC, 1518 00:39:51,846 --> 00:39:54,279 if they don't have an attorney on staff 1519 00:39:54,513 --> 00:39:55,779 and they don't use 1520 00:39:55,779 --> 00:39:56,913 an outside law firm 1521 00:39:56,913 --> 00:39:59,313 for their trademark prosecution work, 1522 00:39:59,313 --> 00:40:01,980 the entity may decide to rely on 1523 00:40:01,980 --> 00:40:04,113 an internal paralegal or brand manager 1524 00:40:04,113 --> 00:40:05,914 to handle the trademark work. 1525 00:40:05,914 --> 00:40:08,214 That non-attorney entity, 1526 00:40:08,214 --> 00:40:09,814 that non-attorney employee, sorry, 1527 00:40:09,814 --> 00:40:11,447 the paralegal, the brand manager, 1528 00:40:11,447 --> 00:40:13,914 cannot practice trademark law. 1529 00:40:13,914 --> 00:40:15,614 They're not supervised by an attorney. 1530 00:40:15,614 --> 00:40:17,515 They cannot practice trademark law 1531 00:40:17,515 --> 00:40:19,248 for that small corporation. 1532 00:40:19,248 --> 00:40:20,182 Now, we talked about what 1533 00:40:20,182 --> 00:40:21,682 the practice of law entails 1534 00:40:21,682 --> 00:40:23,282 and what it does not entail, 1535 00:40:23,282 --> 00:40:24,882 and that line is super 1536 00:40:24,882 --> 00:40:26,349 difficult to find. 1537 00:40:26,349 --> 00:40:27,749 So for that reason, your best 1538 00:40:27,749 --> 00:40:29,016 bet in these situations 1539 00:40:29,016 --> 00:40:30,082 is simply get an attorney 1540 00:40:30,082 --> 00:40:31,449 and to avoid any complications 1541 00:40:31,449 --> 00:40:32,716 related to the unauthorized 1542 00:40:32,716 --> 00:40:33,616 practice of law. 1543 00:40:33,616 --> 00:40:35,816 But, of course, if that's not feasible, 1544 00:40:36,350 --> 00:40:37,983 then the non-attorney 1545 00:40:37,983 --> 00:40:39,617 employee of that juristic entity 1546 00:40:39,617 --> 00:40:42,017 can only act again as a mere scrivener, 1547 00:40:42,450 --> 00:40:44,050 and their work must be directed 1548 00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:45,450 by someone with authority 1549 00:40:45,450 --> 00:40:47,684 to bind the owner in trademark matters. 1550 00:40:48,217 --> 00:40:49,617 We will allow that employee 1551 00:40:49,617 --> 00:40:51,251 to have a USPTO.gov account, 1552 00:40:51,251 --> 00:40:51,851 and that employee 1553 00:40:51,851 --> 00:40:54,051 may claim that owner role. 1554 00:40:54,051 --> 00:40:55,485 But we cannot, the USPTO 1555 00:40:55,485 --> 00:40:57,152 cannot, police on a regular basis, 1556 00:40:57,152 --> 00:40:58,652 whether that employee is engaging 1557 00:40:58,652 --> 00:41:00,285 in the unauthorized practice of law. 1558 00:41:00,285 --> 00:41:01,552 That's for you, the owner, 1559 00:41:01,552 --> 00:41:04,185 to decide and evaluate and determine. 1560 00:41:04,185 --> 00:41:05,452 If you have questions about it, 1561 00:41:05,452 --> 00:41:07,586 again, call OED to talk 1562 00:41:07,586 --> 00:41:10,119 about the specifics of your situation. 1563 00:41:10,786 --> 00:41:12,453 And I keep referring it "mere scrivener," 1564 00:41:12,453 --> 00:41:13,486 that's case law. 1565 00:41:13,486 --> 00:41:14,620 So certainly you might 1566 00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:16,120 want to look that up 1567 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,287 so you can understand 1568 00:41:17,287 --> 00:41:18,287 the distinction, 1569 00:41:18,287 --> 00:41:20,554 the line between unauthorized practice 1570 00:41:20,554 --> 00:41:21,687 and the practice of law. 1571 00:41:23,054 --> 00:41:25,087 Now, as I said, customers 1572 00:41:25,087 --> 00:41:27,288 are relying on non-attorney 1573 00:41:27,288 --> 00:41:29,121 entities for legal advice, 1574 00:41:29,121 --> 00:41:30,921 but they do not realize that 1575 00:41:30,921 --> 00:41:32,221 that non-attorney entity 1576 00:41:32,221 --> 00:41:34,355 cannot represent them 1577 00:41:34,355 --> 00:41:35,755 before the USPTO 1578 00:41:35,755 --> 00:41:36,788 and they don't know that 1579 00:41:36,788 --> 00:41:37,888 that entity's behavior 1580 00:41:37,888 --> 00:41:39,389 could undermine the validity 1581 00:41:39,389 --> 00:41:40,355 of their application or 1582 00:41:40,355 --> 00:41:42,089 of the registration. 1583 00:41:42,289 --> 00:41:45,022 The USPTO has imposed sanctions 1584 00:41:45,322 --> 00:41:47,256 and terminated pending applications 1585 00:41:47,256 --> 00:41:49,990 that contain violations of USPTO rules 1586 00:41:50,256 --> 00:41:52,990 without regard to whether the applicant 1587 00:41:52,990 --> 00:41:54,990 was aware of the rule violations 1588 00:41:54,990 --> 00:41:56,957 perpetrated by those making submissions 1589 00:41:56,957 --> 00:41:58,657 on their behalf. 1590 00:41:58,657 --> 00:42:00,157 These trademark applicants 1591 00:42:00,157 --> 00:42:01,824 have been misled and defrauded 1592 00:42:01,824 --> 00:42:03,224 by actors filing submissions 1593 00:42:03,224 --> 00:42:05,058 at the USPTO purportedly 1594 00:42:05,058 --> 00:42:05,724 on their behalf, 1595 00:42:05,724 --> 00:42:07,991 but clearly against the owner's interest 1596 00:42:08,358 --> 00:42:09,491 and in most cases 1597 00:42:09,491 --> 00:42:13,092 without the owner's knowledge. 1598 00:42:13,092 --> 00:42:14,125 We want to discourage 1599 00:42:14,125 --> 00:42:15,158 reliance on these non-attorney 1600 00:42:15,158 --> 00:42:16,959 entities and to adhere. 1601 00:42:16,959 --> 00:42:18,659 We want to encourage 1602 00:42:18,659 --> 00:42:19,992 adherence to the Lanham Act 1603 00:42:19,992 --> 00:42:22,126 and USPTO rules more closely. 1604 00:42:22,126 --> 00:42:23,126 And we want to do that 1605 00:42:23,126 --> 00:42:25,093 by limiting the user roles, 1606 00:42:25,093 --> 00:42:28,060 access controls, to the filing system. 1607 00:42:30,927 --> 00:42:32,260 Now here's my slide of shame. 1608 00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:33,727 This is a list of U.S. 1609 00:42:33,727 --> 00:42:35,260 attorneys that have 1610 00:42:35,260 --> 00:42:36,627 entered into agreements 1611 00:42:36,627 --> 00:42:38,160 with OED following 1612 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,094 an investigation 1613 00:42:39,094 --> 00:42:41,194 of their attorney misconduct. 1614 00:42:41,194 --> 00:42:42,761 These attorneys rented out 1615 00:42:42,761 --> 00:42:43,928 their credentials 1616 00:42:43,928 --> 00:42:45,728 to foreign filing firms 1617 00:42:45,728 --> 00:42:46,861 who then engaged 1618 00:42:46,861 --> 00:42:48,995 in the unauthorized practice of law 1619 00:42:48,995 --> 00:42:50,428 by filing submissions 1620 00:42:50,428 --> 00:42:51,528 prepared exclusively 1621 00:42:51,528 --> 00:42:52,928 by the foreign firm 1622 00:42:52,928 --> 00:42:53,962 and without the U.S. 1623 00:42:53,962 --> 00:42:54,962 attorney conferring 1624 00:42:54,962 --> 00:42:55,962 with the foreign clients 1625 00:42:55,962 --> 00:42:58,629 or reviewing the submissions. 1626 00:42:58,629 --> 00:43:00,929 This was all done through USPTO.gov 1627 00:43:00,929 --> 00:43:01,796 accounts, through 1628 00:43:01,796 --> 00:43:03,463 which we contract submissions. 1629 00:43:03,463 --> 00:43:06,430 So when we discovered this behavior, 1630 00:43:06,430 --> 00:43:08,363 we referred this conduct 1631 00:43:08,363 --> 00:43:10,163 to the Office of Enrollment and Discipline. 1632 00:43:10,163 --> 00:43:12,297 They investigated. 1633 00:43:12,297 --> 00:43:13,730 They pursued appropriate discipline. 1634 00:43:13,730 --> 00:43:14,997 Now, discipline 1635 00:43:16,097 --> 00:43:17,131 can include suspending 1636 00:43:17,131 --> 00:43:18,131 the attorney for practice 1637 00:43:18,131 --> 00:43:19,831 before the USPTO, 1638 00:43:19,831 --> 00:43:21,731 which happened in all of these cases, 1639 00:43:21,731 --> 00:43:23,531 and sending the discipline 1640 00:43:23,531 --> 00:43:25,765 to the attorney state bar for possible 1641 00:43:25,865 --> 00:43:27,065 reciprocal discipline. 1642 00:43:27,065 --> 00:43:29,032 So their state bar was notified 1643 00:43:29,032 --> 00:43:30,965 of the discipline before the USPTO 1644 00:43:30,965 --> 00:43:31,832 and could decide 1645 00:43:31,832 --> 00:43:33,765 to impose reciprocal discipline 1646 00:43:33,765 --> 00:43:34,532 at the state level. 1647 00:43:36,066 --> 00:43:37,366 So if one of these 1648 00:43:37,366 --> 00:43:38,333 settlement agreements 1649 00:43:38,333 --> 00:43:39,299 issues or litigation 1650 00:43:39,299 --> 00:43:41,466 concludes between the USPTO 1651 00:43:41,699 --> 00:43:43,400 and that attorney who was referred 1652 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,866 over there for misconduct, 1653 00:43:44,866 --> 00:43:46,700 then that's when Trademarks 1654 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:48,133 will review the files 1655 00:43:48,133 --> 00:43:49,133 where that disciplined 1656 00:43:49,133 --> 00:43:50,900 attorney is of record. 1657 00:43:50,900 --> 00:43:52,167 We will determine 1658 00:43:52,167 --> 00:43:52,967 whether the nature 1659 00:43:52,967 --> 00:43:54,167 of the rule violations 1660 00:43:54,167 --> 00:43:55,967 in all of those cases should result 1661 00:43:55,967 --> 00:43:58,134 in the termination of the applications 1662 00:43:58,134 --> 00:43:59,501 and whether it should result 1663 00:43:59,501 --> 00:44:00,901 in the blocking of the attorney's 1664 00:44:00,901 --> 00:44:03,268 USPTO.gov account. 1665 00:44:03,268 --> 00:44:05,435 So in these situations 1666 00:44:05,435 --> 00:44:06,302 where these attorneys 1667 00:44:06,302 --> 00:44:07,602 are renting out their credentials, 1668 00:44:07,602 --> 00:44:09,702 the sanctions can end up being 1669 00:44:09,702 --> 00:44:11,769 that that attorney's USPTO.gov 1670 00:44:11,802 --> 00:44:13,802 account is blocked forever, 1671 00:44:13,802 --> 00:44:15,036 which means they can't file 1672 00:44:15,036 --> 00:44:16,603 anything, forever, 1673 00:44:16,603 --> 00:44:18,969 before the USPTO in trademark matters. 1674 00:44:19,236 --> 00:44:21,570 So they're done, as far as trademark 1675 00:44:21,570 --> 00:44:22,303 registration process 1676 00:44:22,303 --> 00:44:25,570 is, is, is, is aware. 1677 00:44:25,603 --> 00:44:27,337 So it's an issue. 1678 00:44:27,337 --> 00:44:29,537 It's not. It's no joke. No joke. 1679 00:44:31,437 --> 00:44:31,771 Okay. 1680 00:44:31,771 --> 00:44:32,604 Now, this might make 1681 00:44:32,604 --> 00:44:35,004 some people want to snooze 1682 00:44:35,004 --> 00:44:36,971 because signature rules are tough, 1683 00:44:36,971 --> 00:44:38,771 but it is an important point. 1684 00:44:38,771 --> 00:44:40,471 Many of those attorneys 1685 00:44:40,471 --> 00:44:42,072 on that previous slide 1686 00:44:42,072 --> 00:44:44,205 authorized the foreign filing firm 1687 00:44:44,472 --> 00:44:46,972 to sign their name on the submissions. 1688 00:44:46,972 --> 00:44:49,406 So the foreign filing firm is signing 1689 00:44:50,139 --> 00:44:51,339 the attorney's name, the U.S. 1690 00:44:51,339 --> 00:44:53,373 attorney's name on the submissions. 1691 00:44:53,373 --> 00:44:54,906 That's not okay. 1692 00:44:54,906 --> 00:44:56,306 That is not okay. 1693 00:44:56,306 --> 00:44:58,040 Under USPTO rules, 1694 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,306 submissions must be personally signed 1695 00:45:00,306 --> 00:45:01,673 and therefore signatures 1696 00:45:01,673 --> 00:45:04,007 are non-delegable. 1697 00:45:04,007 --> 00:45:05,740 Authorizing someone who is not 1698 00:45:05,740 --> 00:45:06,840 the signatory to sign 1699 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,441 a trademark submission jeopardizes 1700 00:45:08,441 --> 00:45:09,741 the validity of the submission 1701 00:45:09,741 --> 00:45:11,041 and may affect the validity 1702 00:45:11,041 --> 00:45:12,041 of the entire application 1703 00:45:12,041 --> 00:45:13,808 or registration. 1704 00:45:13,808 --> 00:45:15,108 In other words, you may not authorize 1705 00:45:15,108 --> 00:45:15,908 your paralegal or 1706 00:45:15,908 --> 00:45:17,141 contractor or employee 1707 00:45:17,141 --> 00:45:17,808 to sign your name 1708 00:45:17,808 --> 00:45:18,975 on a trademark filing. 1709 00:45:18,975 --> 00:45:20,675 They can sign their own name 1710 00:45:20,675 --> 00:45:21,675 if they have the authority 1711 00:45:21,675 --> 00:45:22,742 to do so, as laid 1712 00:45:22,742 --> 00:45:24,975 out on the left side of the slide. 1713 00:45:25,642 --> 00:45:27,642 But they may not sign your name. 1714 00:45:29,876 --> 00:45:31,209 So that was a little bit of a lecture, 1715 00:45:31,209 --> 00:45:32,943 but it's something that we see a lot of 1716 00:45:32,943 --> 00:45:35,343 and we're not convinced that 1717 00:45:35,343 --> 00:45:36,410 that the folks appearing 1718 00:45:36,410 --> 00:45:38,010 before us legitimately, 1719 00:45:38,010 --> 00:45:39,477 even even good attorneys, 1720 00:45:39,477 --> 00:45:40,310 we're not convinced 1721 00:45:40,310 --> 00:45:41,810 that they all know this rule. 1722 00:45:41,810 --> 00:45:45,210 And with e-signature and direct signing 1723 00:45:45,210 --> 00:45:46,277 and all those sorts of things, it's 1724 00:45:46,277 --> 00:45:47,444 getting a lot easier for us 1725 00:45:47,444 --> 00:45:49,744 to tell who is signing these things 1726 00:45:49,744 --> 00:45:52,511 and if we can tell if it's not you. 1727 00:45:53,511 --> 00:45:54,711 Submission certifications. 1728 00:45:54,711 --> 00:45:55,278 Okay. 1729 00:45:55,378 --> 00:45:57,545 Now, in attempting to define user 1730 00:45:57,545 --> 00:45:59,712 rules, this was a real 1731 00:45:59,712 --> 00:46:00,812 policy conundrum. 1732 00:46:00,812 --> 00:46:02,479 We were trying to figure out, okay, 1733 00:46:02,479 --> 00:46:03,412 what are the different 1734 00:46:03,412 --> 00:46:04,679 categories of people 1735 00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:06,279 who contribute to the filing 1736 00:46:06,279 --> 00:46:07,346 of a trademark application? 1737 00:46:07,346 --> 00:46:10,579 So you've got the application preparer 1738 00:46:10,579 --> 00:46:12,680 and that can be the clearance searching 1739 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:13,446 and the legal advice 1740 00:46:13,446 --> 00:46:14,713 that goes into the process 1741 00:46:14,713 --> 00:46:16,780 of preparing an application. 1742 00:46:17,147 --> 00:46:19,447 Then you've got the signatory. 1743 00:46:19,447 --> 00:46:21,447 And then you've got the transmitter, 1744 00:46:21,447 --> 00:46:23,347 the person who clicks transmit 1745 00:46:23,347 --> 00:46:24,914 or used to be mailing it, right? 1746 00:46:24,914 --> 00:46:25,714 It's not that anymore. 1747 00:46:26,848 --> 00:46:28,781 Just because you have an account 1748 00:46:28,781 --> 00:46:30,081 with an approved user role 1749 00:46:30,081 --> 00:46:31,581 does not mean you are authorized 1750 00:46:31,581 --> 00:46:33,015 to take certain certain actions 1751 00:46:33,015 --> 00:46:34,982 like signing, preparing, or certifying. 1752 00:46:34,982 --> 00:46:36,482 I want to be clear on that. 1753 00:46:36,482 --> 00:46:37,915 Just because you have this account 1754 00:46:37,915 --> 00:46:39,249 does not mean you are authorized 1755 00:46:39,249 --> 00:46:40,715 to take actions. 1756 00:46:40,715 --> 00:46:41,649 It really depends 1757 00:46:41,649 --> 00:46:42,716 on the rest of our rules 1758 00:46:42,716 --> 00:46:43,882 as to what you can do. 1759 00:46:43,882 --> 00:46:45,049 Now, we did consider, 1760 00:46:45,049 --> 00:46:46,816 okay, should we limit 1761 00:46:46,816 --> 00:46:48,049 user roles to those 1762 00:46:48,049 --> 00:46:49,983 who can sign a submission? 1763 00:46:49,983 --> 00:46:50,316 Right? 1764 00:46:50,316 --> 00:46:51,483 So the signatory. 1765 00:46:51,483 --> 00:46:53,150 Then then we'd be really sure 1766 00:46:53,150 --> 00:46:54,250 of who we were dealing with, 1767 00:46:54,250 --> 00:46:54,783 but we just thought 1768 00:46:54,783 --> 00:46:55,817 that was too strict. 1769 00:46:55,817 --> 00:46:56,583 That was that was too 1770 00:46:56,583 --> 00:46:57,617 hard to administer 1771 00:46:57,617 --> 00:46:59,417 and it was going to really impact 1772 00:46:59,417 --> 00:47:01,551 people's business models. 1773 00:47:01,817 --> 00:47:03,551 But one thing I want to to 1774 00:47:03,551 --> 00:47:04,751 to highlight here, there's one action 1775 00:47:04,751 --> 00:47:05,484 that most people think, 1776 00:47:05,484 --> 00:47:07,718 I think, people think of as ministerial. 1777 00:47:07,918 --> 00:47:09,518 That transmittal. 1778 00:47:09,518 --> 00:47:10,685 But you think that's just a trans-, 1779 00:47:10,685 --> 00:47:12,118 you know, a ministerial act, 1780 00:47:12,118 --> 00:47:12,952 no big deal. 1781 00:47:12,952 --> 00:47:14,618 It's not just clicking 1782 00:47:14,618 --> 00:47:15,952 the validate button. There, 1783 00:47:15,952 --> 00:47:17,419 there are, you know, 1784 00:47:17,419 --> 00:47:18,819 things attached to that. So 1785 00:47:19,786 --> 00:47:20,552 I told you to pull up 1786 00:47:20,552 --> 00:47:23,019 37 CFR 111.8(b). Well, 1787 00:47:23,019 --> 00:47:23,786 it's right here, actually, 1788 00:47:23,786 --> 00:47:24,353 you didn't have to. 1789 00:47:24,353 --> 00:47:26,053 I put it up for you. 1790 00:47:26,186 --> 00:47:27,120 The submission or 1791 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,020 transmittal of a document constitutes 1792 00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:30,020 a certification that 1793 00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:31,420 the statements are true, 1794 00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:33,587 supported by law, and not presented 1795 00:47:33,587 --> 00:47:35,120 for improper purpose, 1796 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,387 and that all allegations 1797 00:47:36,387 --> 00:47:39,221 have evidentiary support, of course. 1798 00:47:39,221 --> 00:47:41,721 Now in 2019, you may remember 1799 00:47:41,721 --> 00:47:42,421 Trademarks started 1800 00:47:42,421 --> 00:47:43,954 using this authority 1801 00:47:43,954 --> 00:47:45,621 to sanction violators. 1802 00:47:45,621 --> 00:47:46,521 So when we talk about 1803 00:47:46,521 --> 00:47:47,955 improper behavior, 1804 00:47:47,955 --> 00:47:49,188 this is where it comes from. 1805 00:47:49,188 --> 00:47:50,755 When a paper is presented to us 1806 00:47:50,755 --> 00:47:51,922 for an improper purpose, 1807 00:47:51,922 --> 00:47:53,989 we have the ability to sanction 1808 00:47:53,989 --> 00:47:56,489 the person who's sending it to us. 1809 00:47:56,489 --> 00:47:58,422 So when a USPTO.gov account 1810 00:47:58,422 --> 00:47:59,422 holder makes a submission 1811 00:47:59,422 --> 00:48:01,189 by hitting that "validate" button 1812 00:48:01,189 --> 00:48:02,189 in the TEAS or TEASi 1813 00:48:02,189 --> 00:48:03,289 form, that account 1814 00:48:03,289 --> 00:48:04,823 holder is validating the submission 1815 00:48:04,823 --> 00:48:06,156 as being consistent 1816 00:48:06,156 --> 00:48:09,323 with the certifications in 37 CFR 11.18. 1817 00:48:09,890 --> 00:48:11,223 So if that certification isn't 1818 00:48:11,223 --> 00:48:11,890 true, the person 1819 00:48:11,890 --> 00:48:13,490 making the improper submission 1820 00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:14,657 can be sanctioned. 1821 00:48:16,857 --> 00:48:18,224 I'm starting to become a downer. 1822 00:48:18,224 --> 00:48:19,958 Wow, there's that. 1823 00:48:20,991 --> 00:48:21,824 Sorry about that. 1824 00:48:21,824 --> 00:48:23,225 But we want to get the bad guys. 1825 00:48:23,225 --> 00:48:24,191 We want to get the bad guys. 1826 00:48:24,191 --> 00:48:26,291 Okay, this one. 1827 00:48:26,291 --> 00:48:27,558 This is a list of sanctions 1828 00:48:27,558 --> 00:48:29,958 orders that the USPTO has issued, 1829 00:48:29,958 --> 00:48:31,792 a provision I just showed you, against 1830 00:48:31,792 --> 00:48:33,659 mostly foreign filing firms. 1831 00:48:33,659 --> 00:48:35,092 It's resulted in the termination 1832 00:48:35,092 --> 00:48:36,992 of thousands of invalidly filed 1833 00:48:36,992 --> 00:48:38,359 applications and termination 1834 00:48:38,359 --> 00:48:40,593 of their USPTO.gov accounts. 1835 00:48:41,093 --> 00:48:42,126 These entities here 1836 00:48:42,126 --> 00:48:43,326 that you see are responsible 1837 00:48:43,326 --> 00:48:45,560 for massive rule violations. 1838 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,960 We're not targeting one-offs here 1839 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,494 or those who just make simple mistakes. 1840 00:48:49,494 --> 00:48:51,227 We can tell. We're determining 1841 00:48:51,227 --> 00:48:53,627 the intent of the filer, 1842 00:48:53,627 --> 00:48:55,294 of the rule violators. 1843 00:48:55,294 --> 00:48:56,394 So if you just select 1844 00:48:56,394 --> 00:48:57,661 the wrong user role 1845 00:48:57,661 --> 00:48:58,728 when you validate your account, 1846 00:48:58,728 --> 00:48:59,961 don't worry. 1847 00:48:59,961 --> 00:49:01,728 That's not a massive rule violation. 1848 00:49:01,728 --> 00:49:03,328 That's a mistake. 1849 00:49:03,328 --> 00:49:05,062 So so certainly don't don't worry. 1850 00:49:05,062 --> 00:49:06,362 If you're a good guy 1851 00:49:06,362 --> 00:49:08,395 filing good submissions, 1852 00:49:08,395 --> 00:49:09,429 but you accidentally 1853 00:49:09,429 --> 00:49:11,095 choose the wrong role, 1854 00:49:11,095 --> 00:49:11,596 we're not going to 1855 00:49:11,596 --> 00:49:13,029 terminate your account. 1856 00:49:13,029 --> 00:49:15,029 But if you're a bad guy 1857 00:49:15,029 --> 00:49:16,796 filing bad submissions 1858 00:49:16,796 --> 00:49:18,663 featuring extensive rule violations 1859 00:49:18,663 --> 00:49:19,396 and we find out that 1860 00:49:19,396 --> 00:49:20,463 you chose the wrong role, 1861 00:49:20,463 --> 00:49:22,296 then we have two bases by which 1862 00:49:22,296 --> 00:49:24,230 to terminate your USPTO.gov account 1863 00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:25,663 and not let you back in 1864 00:49:25,663 --> 00:49:27,264 to file anything. 1865 00:49:27,264 --> 00:49:28,864 That's that fence, right? 1866 00:49:28,864 --> 00:49:30,297 We have that sanctions program 1867 00:49:30,297 --> 00:49:31,064 where we can review 1868 00:49:31,064 --> 00:49:32,597 the submissions and issue sanctions 1869 00:49:32,597 --> 00:49:34,264 based on the rule violations. 1870 00:49:34,264 --> 00:49:36,264 We also have the account agreement, 1871 00:49:36,864 --> 00:49:38,198 the terms of use, 1872 00:49:38,198 --> 00:49:38,931 that require you 1873 00:49:38,931 --> 00:49:40,331 to choose the correct user 1874 00:49:40,331 --> 00:49:42,332 rule for your filing situation. 1875 00:49:42,332 --> 00:49:43,798 So again, those user roles create 1876 00:49:43,798 --> 00:49:46,532 an additional basis for enforcement, 1877 00:49:46,532 --> 00:49:48,099 but really they also represent 1878 00:49:48,099 --> 00:49:49,366 a significant opportunity 1879 00:49:49,366 --> 00:49:51,499 for the USPTO to communicate our rules 1880 00:49:51,799 --> 00:49:53,233 and our expectations 1881 00:49:53,233 --> 00:49:54,566 for who is authorized to practice 1882 00:49:54,566 --> 00:49:55,633 before the office 1883 00:49:55,633 --> 00:49:57,733 and what practice means. 1884 00:49:57,733 --> 00:49:59,133 Because we frankly have been 1885 00:49:59,133 --> 00:50:01,233 seeing a lot of abuse 1886 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,833 of the practice of law, 1887 00:50:03,833 --> 00:50:05,300 and that has resulted 1888 00:50:05,300 --> 00:50:07,467 in thousands of filings 1889 00:50:07,467 --> 00:50:09,767 that really don't represent 1890 00:50:09,767 --> 00:50:11,301 the interests of the owner. 1891 00:50:11,301 --> 00:50:12,301 They're just, 1892 00:50:12,434 --> 00:50:13,134 you know, an effort 1893 00:50:13,134 --> 00:50:14,868 to try to get at a registration 1894 00:50:14,868 --> 00:50:15,868 as quickly as possible, 1895 00:50:15,868 --> 00:50:18,035 to get on ecommerce platforms 1896 00:50:18,035 --> 00:50:19,835 or to to populate 1897 00:50:19,835 --> 00:50:21,168 the secondary market for U.S. 1898 00:50:21,168 --> 00:50:21,835 registrations. 1899 00:50:21,835 --> 00:50:23,769 There's tons of websites out there 1900 00:50:23,769 --> 00:50:25,969 where U.S. registrations are for sale. 1901 00:50:26,902 --> 00:50:27,969 Presumably, they did 1902 00:50:27,969 --> 00:50:30,869 not have an actual intent to use 1903 00:50:31,136 --> 00:50:32,036 when they filed that. 1904 00:50:32,036 --> 00:50:33,303 They were just trying to get it up 1905 00:50:33,303 --> 00:50:35,736 on a secondary market auction website. 1906 00:50:37,937 --> 00:50:39,503 Not a bona fide intent, right? 1907 00:50:39,503 --> 00:50:40,770 Right. Okay. 1908 00:50:40,770 --> 00:50:44,437 Um, lastly here, correcting user roles. 1909 00:50:46,637 --> 00:50:48,671 So let's talk about 1910 00:50:48,671 --> 00:50:50,238 how to change or correct your user 1911 00:50:50,238 --> 00:50:51,238 role. Based on what 1912 00:50:51,238 --> 00:50:52,271 we said here today, 1913 00:50:52,271 --> 00:50:53,238 you think you may have 1914 00:50:53,238 --> 00:50:55,138 selected the wrong one. 1915 00:50:55,138 --> 00:50:57,238 So you can't change your role yourself 1916 00:50:57,238 --> 00:50:58,238 once your verification 1917 00:50:58,238 --> 00:50:59,405 process is complete, 1918 00:50:59,405 --> 00:51:02,105 but you can contact TEAS@uspto.gov 1919 00:51:02,105 --> 00:51:03,805 with your change request. 1920 00:51:03,805 --> 00:51:05,372 Use that subject line 1921 00:51:05,372 --> 00:51:07,572 "Mistake in ID verification filing role." 1922 00:51:07,906 --> 00:51:08,939 Provide your full name 1923 00:51:08,939 --> 00:51:10,106 and telephone number. 1924 00:51:10,106 --> 00:51:11,840 Include your email address 1925 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,073 with the USPTO.gov 1926 00:51:13,073 --> 00:51:15,040 account that you verified. 1927 00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:15,907 Specify the role 1928 00:51:15,907 --> 00:51:17,040 you mistakenly selected 1929 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:17,907 and the role you'd like it 1930 00:51:17,907 --> 00:51:18,707 corrected to, 1931 00:51:18,707 --> 00:51:20,174 and then provide an explanation of why 1932 00:51:20,174 --> 00:51:22,074 you selected the incorrect role. 1933 00:51:22,074 --> 00:51:23,407 Our employees will review 1934 00:51:23,407 --> 00:51:24,574 your request and respond 1935 00:51:24,574 --> 00:51:26,874 within a few days to correct that. 1936 00:51:28,608 --> 00:51:30,775 So wrapping up here, 1937 00:51:31,675 --> 00:51:33,241 limiting access to electronic 1938 00:51:33,241 --> 00:51:34,675 trademark forms through ID 1939 00:51:34,675 --> 00:51:35,742 verification and user 1940 00:51:35,742 --> 00:51:37,542 roles to only those 1941 00:51:37,542 --> 00:51:39,142 whose submissions in trademark 1942 00:51:39,142 --> 00:51:40,009 matters can be deemed 1943 00:51:40,009 --> 00:51:41,509 to be an act to the owner, 1944 00:51:41,509 --> 00:51:42,176 that will provide 1945 00:51:42,176 --> 00:51:44,009 assurances to the USPTO 1946 00:51:44,009 --> 00:51:46,276 and to the public that these filings 1947 00:51:46,543 --> 00:51:47,709 are the owner's filings. 1948 00:51:47,709 --> 00:51:48,809 They are the owner's intents. 1949 00:51:48,809 --> 00:51:49,543 They're made at their 1950 00:51:49,543 --> 00:51:50,976 the owner's request, they're authorized. 1951 00:51:50,976 --> 00:51:52,677 They the owner has specific knowledge 1952 00:51:52,677 --> 00:51:53,843 of what's in there. 1953 00:51:53,843 --> 00:51:55,810 It's a waste of the USPTO's 1954 00:51:55,810 --> 00:51:57,010 time, the owner's time, 1955 00:51:57,010 --> 00:51:58,010 and our trademark customers' 1956 00:51:58,010 --> 00:51:59,777 time for the USPTO 1957 00:51:59,777 --> 00:52:01,877 to have to process applications, 1958 00:52:02,377 --> 00:52:04,211 thousands of applications, 1959 00:52:04,211 --> 00:52:05,444 from those who are not authorized 1960 00:52:05,444 --> 00:52:06,278 to make submissions 1961 00:52:06,278 --> 00:52:08,411 and who submit invalid ones 1962 00:52:08,411 --> 00:52:09,111 that we end up 1963 00:52:09,111 --> 00:52:10,845 terminating for sanctions. 1964 00:52:10,845 --> 00:52:12,278 It just gloms up the works 1965 00:52:12,278 --> 00:52:13,478 and screws up the whole 1966 00:52:13,478 --> 00:52:14,478 trademark ecosystem. 1967 00:52:14,478 --> 00:52:15,879 So we're building a fence 1968 00:52:15,879 --> 00:52:17,945 to keep those guys out. 1969 00:52:17,945 --> 00:52:19,412 It is a process. 1970 00:52:19,412 --> 00:52:20,946 We are not done yet, 1971 00:52:20,946 --> 00:52:22,679 so please be patient with us. 1972 00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:24,313 If we develop, we're developing 1973 00:52:24,313 --> 00:52:25,813 entirely new policies 1974 00:52:25,813 --> 00:52:27,246 to achieve our goals 1975 00:52:27,246 --> 00:52:28,513 of protecting the integrity 1976 00:52:28,513 --> 00:52:29,846 of the trademark register. 1977 00:52:29,846 --> 00:52:30,980 And it's for the benefit 1978 00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:32,413 of all of our customers 1979 00:52:32,413 --> 00:52:34,380 and the entire trademark ecosystem. 1980 00:52:35,647 --> 00:52:37,114 So with that, I am going 1981 00:52:37,114 --> 00:52:39,847 to stop sharing my screen. 1982 00:52:39,847 --> 00:52:42,114 And we are ready to 1983 00:52:43,081 --> 00:52:45,281 take questions if we have any. 1984 00:52:46,715 --> 00:52:47,015 -Yes. 1985 00:52:47,015 --> 00:52:48,381 -I think we have something. 1986 00:52:48,381 --> 00:52:50,782 -Yes. A lot of questions are coming in. 1987 00:52:50,782 --> 00:52:51,915 Thank you very much to all of you folks 1988 00:52:51,915 --> 00:52:52,382 who've been sending 1989 00:52:52,382 --> 00:52:53,815 in questions throughout. 1990 00:52:53,815 --> 00:52:55,082 We appreciate it. 1991 00:52:55,082 --> 00:52:56,882 And so to help us out with the Q&A 1992 00:52:56,882 --> 00:52:57,616 section, we're going to 1993 00:52:57,616 --> 00:52:59,849 also bring in Bob Lavache. 1994 00:52:59,849 --> 00:53:02,416 Bob, some of you might recognize him. 1995 00:53:02,416 --> 00:53:03,416 You've seen him before 1996 00:53:03,416 --> 00:53:04,650 and on other webinars. 1997 00:53:04,650 --> 00:53:05,683 He's the Senior Trademark 1998 00:53:05,683 --> 00:53:06,983 Legal Policy Advisor in 1999 00:53:06,983 --> 00:53:08,183 the USPTO's Office 2000 00:53:08,183 --> 00:53:09,083 of the Deputy Commissioner 2001 00:53:09,083 --> 00:53:10,883 for Trademark Examination Policy. 2002 00:53:10,883 --> 00:53:12,450 That's Amy's shop. 2003 00:53:12,450 --> 00:53:13,984 And is also the assistant editor 2004 00:53:13,984 --> 00:53:14,917 of the Trademark Manual 2005 00:53:14,917 --> 00:53:16,351 of Examining Procedure. 2006 00:53:16,351 --> 00:53:18,884 Started at the USPTO in 2005, 2007 00:53:19,051 --> 00:53:20,851 working for five years as a trademark 2008 00:53:20,851 --> 00:53:21,918 examining attorney 2009 00:53:21,918 --> 00:53:22,951 before becoming a Legal 2010 00:53:22,951 --> 00:53:24,751 Policy Staff Attorney. 2011 00:53:24,751 --> 00:53:26,085 So you're in great hands 2012 00:53:26,085 --> 00:53:27,618 with the three of these folks. 2013 00:53:27,618 --> 00:53:29,218 And just a quick note 2014 00:53:29,218 --> 00:53:30,885 to keep sending those questions in. 2015 00:53:30,885 --> 00:53:32,152 Remember, you're not going to see them 2016 00:53:32,152 --> 00:53:33,485 immediately pop up. 2017 00:53:33,485 --> 00:53:35,552 We have a great staff on the back end 2018 00:53:35,552 --> 00:53:36,952 curating those questions. 2019 00:53:36,952 --> 00:53:38,053 And also, keep in mind, 2020 00:53:38,053 --> 00:53:39,186 there are a lot of you on, 2021 00:53:39,186 --> 00:53:40,019 it looks like there's over 2022 00:53:40,019 --> 00:53:41,820 800 people on today. 2023 00:53:41,820 --> 00:53:42,653 So we're not going to be able 2024 00:53:42,653 --> 00:53:44,353 to get to every single question 2025 00:53:44,353 --> 00:53:45,053 that you send in. 2026 00:53:45,053 --> 00:53:46,720 So I apologize if you 2027 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:47,887 if you post something 2028 00:53:47,887 --> 00:53:48,854 and you're frustrated that 2029 00:53:48,854 --> 00:53:50,387 you're not seeing it up there. 2030 00:53:50,387 --> 00:53:51,120 We're doing our best 2031 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:51,920 to make sure we answer 2032 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,154 as many questions as possible. 2033 00:53:54,154 --> 00:53:55,221 And what we're doing 2034 00:53:55,221 --> 00:53:57,088 is we're collecting those questions 2035 00:53:57,088 --> 00:53:59,454 and we're going to add some sort of 2036 00:53:59,521 --> 00:54:01,421 commonly asked questions 2037 00:54:01,421 --> 00:54:03,088 later on to the web site. 2038 00:54:03,088 --> 00:54:03,888 So there are a lot of you 2039 00:54:03,888 --> 00:54:05,822 asking very similar questions. 2040 00:54:05,822 --> 00:54:06,488 So we're going to make 2041 00:54:06,488 --> 00:54:07,355 sure we get answers 2042 00:54:07,355 --> 00:54:08,989 to all of those similar 2043 00:54:08,989 --> 00:54:09,622 sorts of questions 2044 00:54:09,622 --> 00:54:10,922 that we're, that have come in. 2045 00:54:10,922 --> 00:54:12,289 Even if we cannot answer 2046 00:54:12,289 --> 00:54:14,656 your very specific individual question. 2047 00:54:14,989 --> 00:54:16,223 So I'm going to turn it over 2048 00:54:16,223 --> 00:54:17,089 to the three of you, 2049 00:54:17,089 --> 00:54:18,890 and you can read through the 2050 00:54:18,890 --> 00:54:20,123 questions and take it away. 2051 00:54:21,956 --> 00:54:22,957 -Okay. 2052 00:54:23,790 --> 00:54:25,257 The first one that I'm seeing is, "Hello. 2053 00:54:25,257 --> 00:54:26,990 Curious as to what this means 2054 00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:28,457 for third-party filing services 2055 00:54:28,457 --> 00:54:29,857 that do not provide 2056 00:54:29,857 --> 00:54:31,124 attorney representing 2057 00:54:31,124 --> 00:54:32,524 representation services. 2058 00:54:32,524 --> 00:54:34,924 What exceptions will be made 2059 00:54:34,924 --> 00:54:36,391 for these companies?" 2060 00:54:36,391 --> 00:54:38,191 So the question is, 2061 00:54:38,191 --> 00:54:39,791 or the question presupposes, 2062 00:54:39,791 --> 00:54:41,792 that we should make an exception 2063 00:54:41,792 --> 00:54:43,992 for a third-party filing service 2064 00:54:43,992 --> 00:54:44,758 that does not have 2065 00:54:44,758 --> 00:54:46,592 an attorney on staff. 2066 00:54:46,592 --> 00:54:48,759 So in that scenario, if I'm following, 2067 00:54:49,026 --> 00:54:50,459 there is no attorney on staff. 2068 00:54:50,459 --> 00:54:52,593 There are trademark 2069 00:54:52,893 --> 00:54:55,059 consultants, paralegals, 2070 00:54:55,293 --> 00:54:57,860 who are providing legal advice, 2071 00:54:57,860 --> 00:54:58,860 preparing submissions 2072 00:54:58,860 --> 00:54:59,860 and filing submissions. 2073 00:54:59,860 --> 00:55:00,927 Well, gosh, that sounds like 2074 00:55:00,927 --> 00:55:03,060 the unauthorized practice of law to me. 2075 00:55:03,060 --> 00:55:05,694 So our rules say, "No. 2076 00:55:05,994 --> 00:55:06,860 And therefore 2077 00:55:06,860 --> 00:55:08,427 then there cannot be an exception 2078 00:55:08,427 --> 00:55:09,194 and there's not a, 'cause 2079 00:55:09,194 --> 00:55:10,394 there's not an exception in the rule 2080 00:55:10,394 --> 00:55:11,261 in that situation. 2081 00:55:11,261 --> 00:55:12,061 So I don't, I don't mean 2082 00:55:12,061 --> 00:55:13,428 to be, you know, 2083 00:55:13,461 --> 00:55:14,161 kind of annoying, 2084 00:55:14,161 --> 00:55:15,228 but the fact of the matter 2085 00:55:15,228 --> 00:55:16,095 is, that's exactly 2086 00:55:16,095 --> 00:55:17,295 what we're trying to stop here, 2087 00:55:17,295 --> 00:55:19,062 because those third party services, 2088 00:55:19,062 --> 00:55:21,728 maybe they are great, awesome trademark 2089 00:55:21,728 --> 00:55:23,395 professionals, maybe they are, 2090 00:55:23,395 --> 00:55:24,929 but it doesn't match our rules. 2091 00:55:24,929 --> 00:55:26,095 But we also have a lot of third- 2092 00:55:26,095 --> 00:55:27,462 party filing services 2093 00:55:27,462 --> 00:55:28,196 that are not great, 2094 00:55:28,196 --> 00:55:29,462 awesome professionals. 2095 00:55:29,462 --> 00:55:30,763 That are holding themselves 2096 00:55:30,763 --> 00:55:33,129 out to be trademark lawyers 2097 00:55:33,129 --> 00:55:35,130 or trademark representatives 2098 00:55:35,130 --> 00:55:36,730 who are, you know, 2099 00:55:36,730 --> 00:55:37,697 authorized to practice 2100 00:55:37,697 --> 00:55:39,363 before the office when they're not. 2101 00:55:39,363 --> 00:55:40,830 And what we have seen 2102 00:55:40,830 --> 00:55:41,964 in our investigations 2103 00:55:41,964 --> 00:55:43,030 is that a lot of these 2104 00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:44,330 applications are 2105 00:55:44,330 --> 00:55:45,931 littered with rule violations 2106 00:55:45,931 --> 00:55:47,931 that invalidate the application. 2107 00:55:47,931 --> 00:55:49,498 So it wasted everybody's 2108 00:55:49,498 --> 00:55:51,631 time to use one of these services 2109 00:55:51,764 --> 00:55:53,098 that ended up with an application 2110 00:55:53,098 --> 00:55:54,598 that's functionally invalid 2111 00:55:54,598 --> 00:55:56,165 and should not have have taken up 2112 00:55:56,165 --> 00:55:57,598 our examination resources 2113 00:55:57,598 --> 00:55:59,032 and, if they tried to be enforced, 2114 00:55:59,032 --> 00:56:00,465 would be unenforceable. 2115 00:56:00,465 --> 00:56:02,499 So that is why we're here today. 2116 00:56:02,732 --> 00:56:04,766 That is why the rule exists. 2117 00:56:04,766 --> 00:56:05,632 And we really hope 2118 00:56:05,632 --> 00:56:07,433 that we can cut down on, 2119 00:56:07,433 --> 00:56:09,633 you know, having our customers, 2120 00:56:09,699 --> 00:56:10,733 you know, applicants 2121 00:56:10,733 --> 00:56:12,133 who are relying on these low 2122 00:56:12,133 --> 00:56:13,400 cost filing services, 2123 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,367 they're not getting what they paid for. 2124 00:56:15,367 --> 00:56:16,667 Because a lot of these low 2125 00:56:16,667 --> 00:56:17,767 cost filing services 2126 00:56:17,767 --> 00:56:19,067 don't have attorneys on staff 2127 00:56:19,067 --> 00:56:20,300 who are supervising, 2128 00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:21,600 who are not following 2129 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:22,634 the rules of practice, 2130 00:56:22,634 --> 00:56:23,601 who are not following the rules 2131 00:56:23,601 --> 00:56:24,734 of professional conduct, 2132 00:56:24,734 --> 00:56:27,001 and cannot be held accountable for 2133 00:56:27,001 --> 00:56:28,534 for their behavior. 2134 00:56:28,534 --> 00:56:29,901 So that's why we're doing 2135 00:56:29,901 --> 00:56:30,601 what we're doing. 2136 00:56:30,601 --> 00:56:31,535 So it kind of teed up 2137 00:56:31,535 --> 00:56:33,201 the whole point of this 2138 00:56:33,201 --> 00:56:34,468 this presentation today. 2139 00:56:34,468 --> 00:56:36,668 So I thank you for the question. 2140 00:56:36,668 --> 00:56:37,735 Anybody have anything to add? 2141 00:56:42,336 --> 00:56:43,602 -I just wanted to say we 2142 00:56:43,602 --> 00:56:45,936 had some related questions 2143 00:56:45,936 --> 00:56:47,636 about paralegals in a 2144 00:56:47,636 --> 00:56:48,670 in a corporate structure 2145 00:56:48,670 --> 00:56:50,936 that are not supervised by an attorney. 2146 00:56:50,936 --> 00:56:54,303 And I think you answered that in your 2147 00:56:54,837 --> 00:56:56,770 presentation, that they're restricted 2148 00:56:56,770 --> 00:56:59,604 to the activities that can be done 2149 00:57:00,937 --> 00:57:02,837 under the rules of practice. 2150 00:57:02,837 --> 00:57:03,137 Right. 2151 00:57:03,137 --> 00:57:05,204 So if they're not, 2152 00:57:05,204 --> 00:57:07,171 as you say, supervised by an attorney, 2153 00:57:07,171 --> 00:57:08,905 then they're basically acting 2154 00:57:08,905 --> 00:57:11,405 as a mere mere scrivener or scribe. 2155 00:57:13,205 --> 00:57:14,238 The other question that we had 2156 00:57:14,238 --> 00:57:14,705 that was somewhat 2157 00:57:14,705 --> 00:57:16,239 related is, "What if I'm 2158 00:57:16,239 --> 00:57:17,405 a paralegal 2159 00:57:17,405 --> 00:57:20,372 working for an in-house counsel? 2160 00:57:21,106 --> 00:57:22,039 What should I do? 2161 00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:23,373 What should be my role there?" 2162 00:57:23,373 --> 00:57:24,339 And 2163 00:57:25,273 --> 00:57:26,706 Amy, you or Matt can, 2164 00:57:26,706 --> 00:57:28,806 can confirm or disconfirm, but 2165 00:57:28,806 --> 00:57:29,706 I think there that 2166 00:57:29,706 --> 00:57:30,973 you'd want the in-house counsel 2167 00:57:30,973 --> 00:57:33,040 to have an attorney user role 2168 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,840 and then sponsor that paralegal. 2169 00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:37,341 -That's perfect. 2170 00:57:37,341 --> 00:57:39,141 That's exactly right. 2171 00:57:41,208 --> 00:57:42,374 -So I want to be the 2172 00:57:42,374 --> 00:57:43,441 bearer of good news. 2173 00:57:43,441 --> 00:57:45,441 -Yes. -So. 2174 00:57:45,608 --> 00:57:49,108 So we've got our new webinar set up 2175 00:57:49,108 --> 00:57:50,608 that allows us to sort 2176 00:57:50,608 --> 00:57:52,909 these questions by "liked." 2177 00:57:52,909 --> 00:57:54,342 So use that "like" button, guys. 2178 00:57:54,342 --> 00:57:55,976 Use the thumbs up 2179 00:57:55,976 --> 00:57:57,242 for what you want to see. 2180 00:57:57,242 --> 00:57:59,409 And the number one liked question, 2181 00:58:00,209 --> 00:58:01,643 straight and to the point, 2182 00:58:01,643 --> 00:58:02,743 it's basically, like, 2183 00:58:02,743 --> 00:58:03,243 you know, 2184 00:58:03,243 --> 00:58:06,376 "I think I did this, am I good here?" 2185 00:58:06,376 --> 00:58:08,743 So, yes, if you know you verified 2186 00:58:09,877 --> 00:58:12,210 already, you're done. 2187 00:58:12,210 --> 00:58:14,777 And we'll watch those attendees numbers 2188 00:58:14,777 --> 00:58:15,677 drop off immediately now. 2189 00:58:15,677 --> 00:58:16,477 I'm sorry 2190 00:58:16,477 --> 00:58:18,111 you waited so long, but yes, 2191 00:58:18,111 --> 00:58:19,178 there's no new, there's no 2192 00:58:19,178 --> 00:58:20,378 verification that needs to be done. 2193 00:58:20,378 --> 00:58:21,044 If you've already gone 2194 00:58:21,044 --> 00:58:21,878 through the process, 2195 00:58:21,878 --> 00:58:23,845 if you've gone through online with ID.me, 2196 00:58:23,845 --> 00:58:25,378 or you submitted the paper 2197 00:58:25,378 --> 00:58:26,345 verification, 2198 00:58:26,345 --> 00:58:28,045 you got confirmation from our staff 2199 00:58:28,045 --> 00:58:29,512 that it was processed, 2200 00:58:29,512 --> 00:58:30,145 you're good to go. 2201 00:58:30,145 --> 00:58:31,379 There's not an additional 2202 00:58:31,379 --> 00:58:32,379 verification step. 2203 00:58:32,379 --> 00:58:33,512 It's the same process that 2204 00:58:33,512 --> 00:58:34,646 we've had since January. 2205 00:58:35,646 --> 00:58:37,879 One of the things that 2206 00:58:38,813 --> 00:58:40,213 that we often hear is, 2207 00:58:40,213 --> 00:58:41,580 "How do I know if I'm verified?" 2208 00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:42,480 And so there are some ways 2209 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:43,746 you can tell right now 2210 00:58:43,746 --> 00:58:45,180 indirectly that you're verified. 2211 00:58:45,180 --> 00:58:47,213 For example, you go to a TEAS form 2212 00:58:47,213 --> 00:58:47,880 and you get right in. 2213 00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:48,980 You don't get asked 2214 00:58:48,980 --> 00:58:50,680 to verify your account. 2215 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,214 That means you're verified. 2216 00:58:52,214 --> 00:58:53,281 Later this week, we're 2217 00:58:53,281 --> 00:58:54,114 going to have also 2218 00:58:54,114 --> 00:58:55,514 available on your USPTO.gov 2219 00:58:55,514 --> 00:58:57,914 account on the settings page, 2220 00:58:57,914 --> 00:58:59,915 a little banner that tells you 2221 00:58:59,915 --> 00:59:01,015 if your trademark, trademark- 2222 00:59:01,015 --> 00:59:03,348 verified or patent-proofed or both, 2223 00:59:03,348 --> 00:59:04,548 and that'll indicate for you 2224 00:59:04,548 --> 00:59:05,448 what systems you're 2225 00:59:05,448 --> 00:59:07,815 authorized to enter and filing. 2226 00:59:07,815 --> 00:59:10,082 So we hope to have that up for you, 2227 00:59:10,082 --> 00:59:12,449 you know, again later this week, 2228 00:59:12,449 --> 00:59:13,982 so that you'll be able to, you know, 2229 00:59:13,982 --> 00:59:14,949 check your own account 2230 00:59:14,949 --> 00:59:16,149 and won't have to ask us 2231 00:59:16,149 --> 00:59:18,016 or won't have to guess when you go in. 2232 00:59:18,016 --> 00:59:19,416 And we're also going to give, again, 2233 00:59:19,416 --> 00:59:20,883 a lot of a lot more information 2234 00:59:20,883 --> 00:59:21,850 that's going to be coming forth 2235 00:59:21,850 --> 00:59:22,683 on our website later 2236 00:59:22,683 --> 00:59:24,750 this week as well on roles. 2237 00:59:24,750 --> 00:59:26,184 So the things that we're saying 2238 00:59:26,184 --> 00:59:28,117 here, you'll be able to read 2239 00:59:28,117 --> 00:59:30,184 at your leisure often, 2240 00:59:30,184 --> 00:59:31,184 as often as you like, 2241 00:59:32,151 --> 00:59:35,451 later on this week. 2242 00:59:35,451 --> 00:59:38,418 -Or next year. -Or next or next. 2243 00:59:38,985 --> 00:59:41,585 -And, Matt, just to drive the point home, 2244 00:59:42,218 --> 00:59:45,419 we did get some questions from smaller 2245 00:59:45,419 --> 00:59:47,019 filers who said, "Oh, basically, 2246 00:59:47,019 --> 00:59:48,552 I've already filed. 2247 00:59:48,552 --> 00:59:49,686 You know, I've kind of 2248 00:59:49,686 --> 00:59:50,552 got my registration. 2249 00:59:50,552 --> 00:59:52,019 I don't really have any immediate 2250 00:59:52,019 --> 00:59:54,886 pending business before the office. 2251 00:59:55,253 --> 00:59:56,853 I'm not verified now. 2252 00:59:56,853 --> 00:59:58,153 What should I do?" 2253 00:59:58,153 --> 00:59:58,953 What, what would you 2254 00:59:58,953 --> 01:00:00,653 recommend for that? 2255 01:00:00,653 --> 01:00:00,820 -Yeah. 2256 01:00:00,820 --> 01:00:01,653 And like we said before, 2257 01:00:01,653 --> 01:00:02,520 you know, verification 2258 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,320 is not a status thing. 2259 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,320 You don't just just need to be verified 2260 01:00:07,654 --> 01:00:09,654 just because you have 2261 01:00:09,654 --> 01:00:10,721 a registration or 2262 01:00:10,721 --> 01:00:12,421 pending application or anything. 2263 01:00:12,421 --> 01:00:14,221 But you will need to be verified 2264 01:00:14,221 --> 01:00:16,021 to take action with respect to it. 2265 01:00:16,021 --> 01:00:21,122 So a renewal or a response or a request 2266 01:00:21,122 --> 01:00:22,122 for extension of time 2267 01:00:22,122 --> 01:00:23,189 to file a statement of use, 2268 01:00:23,189 --> 01:00:24,122 all those things 2269 01:00:24,122 --> 01:00:25,022 you'll need to be verified 2270 01:00:25,022 --> 01:00:26,556 to submit those filings. 2271 01:00:26,556 --> 01:00:27,922 So I do suggest that 2272 01:00:28,889 --> 01:00:31,156 it's not to your benefit to wait. 2273 01:00:32,189 --> 01:00:32,989 If you find a time 2274 01:00:32,989 --> 01:00:34,190 that's good for you to do it 2275 01:00:34,190 --> 01:00:36,656 and you have a few free moments, 2276 01:00:36,656 --> 01:00:38,023 it's easier to take care of it now. 2277 01:00:38,023 --> 01:00:39,523 However, it's not required 2278 01:00:39,523 --> 01:00:41,524 just for ownership of these things. 2279 01:00:41,524 --> 01:00:42,624 Just a filing requirement 2280 01:00:42,624 --> 01:00:44,424 to access our system. 2281 01:00:48,324 --> 01:00:49,991 Let me, let me address 2282 01:00:49,991 --> 01:00:52,091 and I will summarize here. 2283 01:00:52,091 --> 01:00:53,591 I also see people, 2284 01:00:53,591 --> 01:00:54,491 I will summarize this 2285 01:00:54,491 --> 01:00:55,925 as "I'm not comfortable 2286 01:00:55,925 --> 01:00:57,925 using an online verification system." 2287 01:00:57,925 --> 01:00:58,925 We understand that. 2288 01:00:58,925 --> 01:01:00,859 We completely understand that. 2289 01:01:00,859 --> 01:01:02,525 That's why we offer a paper 2290 01:01:02,525 --> 01:01:04,892 verification option. 2291 01:01:04,892 --> 01:01:06,226 That way, 2292 01:01:06,592 --> 01:01:08,059 you know, the the information 2293 01:01:08,059 --> 01:01:09,626 that's on the form 2294 01:01:09,626 --> 01:01:11,960 is is all that we collect. 2295 01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,660 And the only person who sees 2296 01:01:13,660 --> 01:01:15,193 it is the notary who notarizes it. 2297 01:01:15,193 --> 01:01:17,193 So, you know, that is 2298 01:01:17,193 --> 01:01:18,193 that is the other option 2299 01:01:18,193 --> 01:01:19,060 for people who don't want 2300 01:01:19,060 --> 01:01:21,260 to use the online verification method 2301 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,294 and who would otherwise need to verify 2302 01:01:23,294 --> 01:01:25,527 using either online or paper, 2303 01:01:25,527 --> 01:01:26,728 you know, use the paper form. 2304 01:01:26,728 --> 01:01:27,628 It's just as valid. 2305 01:01:27,628 --> 01:01:29,995 It accomplishes the same thing. 2306 01:01:29,995 --> 01:01:30,928 It just takes a little 2307 01:01:30,928 --> 01:01:32,161 bit longer to process. 2308 01:01:32,161 --> 01:01:32,928 So if you don't want 2309 01:01:32,928 --> 01:01:34,162 to use the online option, 2310 01:01:34,162 --> 01:01:36,195 it's purely a matter of convenience. 2311 01:01:36,195 --> 01:01:37,062 If you don't feel comfortable 2312 01:01:37,062 --> 01:01:38,529 doing it, please use the paper. 2313 01:01:38,529 --> 01:01:39,729 Please leave a little extra time. 2314 01:01:42,829 --> 01:01:43,162 -Okay. 2315 01:01:43,162 --> 01:01:44,229 It looks like the most 2316 01:01:44,229 --> 01:01:45,963 liked question right now is, 2317 01:01:45,963 --> 01:01:48,063 "I am a paralegal for three attorneys. 2318 01:01:48,496 --> 01:01:50,830 Do I have to be sponsored by all three? 2319 01:01:51,330 --> 01:01:53,797 Do they need to verify my identity 2320 01:01:53,830 --> 01:01:56,330 every time I prepare a filing?" 2321 01:01:56,330 --> 01:02:00,131 So let's start with the first part. 2322 01:02:00,464 --> 01:02:01,397 Yes. 2323 01:02:01,397 --> 01:02:02,531 If you are a paralegal 2324 01:02:02,531 --> 01:02:04,031 for three different attorneys, each 2325 01:02:04,031 --> 01:02:06,564 one of them has their own account. 2326 01:02:06,564 --> 01:02:07,931 They verify their identity 2327 01:02:07,931 --> 01:02:09,231 and then they sponsor you. 2328 01:02:09,231 --> 01:02:10,331 Now, why do all three of them 2329 01:02:10,331 --> 01:02:11,498 have to sponsor you? 2330 01:02:11,498 --> 01:02:13,298 Think about phase three. 2331 01:02:13,298 --> 01:02:14,265 What phase three is. 2332 01:02:14,265 --> 01:02:15,999 Phase three is where 2333 01:02:15,999 --> 01:02:18,699 we will limit access to applications 2334 01:02:18,699 --> 01:02:20,099 and registrations to those 2335 01:02:20,099 --> 01:02:21,466 you need to touch. 2336 01:02:21,466 --> 01:02:22,399 If you are a para-, 2337 01:02:22,399 --> 01:02:23,233 if you're an attorney 2338 01:02:23,233 --> 01:02:24,733 and you have a set of files, 2339 01:02:24,733 --> 01:02:26,200 you touch those files. 2340 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:27,500 But if you're a paralegal 2341 01:02:27,500 --> 01:02:28,600 and you work for one attorney 2342 01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:29,366 who has this file, 2343 01:02:29,366 --> 01:02:30,567 you touch his files. 2344 01:02:30,567 --> 01:02:31,933 You work for another attorney 2345 01:02:31,933 --> 01:02:33,634 and her files, you touch her files. 2346 01:02:33,634 --> 01:02:34,500 And the third attorney, 2347 01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:36,200 you touch her files. 2348 01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,334 So that means then you need, 2349 01:02:38,334 --> 01:02:39,834 the paralegal needs, to be sponsored 2350 01:02:39,834 --> 01:02:41,834 by each one of those three attorneys 2351 01:02:41,834 --> 01:02:43,868 so that their list of serial numbers 2352 01:02:44,201 --> 01:02:46,501 shows up in your docket. 2353 01:02:46,801 --> 01:02:47,635 I don't know what to call that. 2354 01:02:47,635 --> 01:02:48,935 Your widget, whatever, 2355 01:02:48,935 --> 01:02:50,768 shows up in your USPTO.gov account. 2356 01:02:50,768 --> 01:02:52,769 Then you have the authority 2357 01:02:52,769 --> 01:02:54,669 to touch all of those. 2358 01:02:54,669 --> 01:02:56,269 So that's why each 2359 01:02:56,269 --> 01:02:57,336 one of them has to do it. 2360 01:02:57,336 --> 01:02:58,702 Because you think about future 2361 01:02:58,702 --> 01:03:00,803 proofing for phase three. That's why. 2362 01:03:02,469 --> 01:03:03,636 Oh, and the question just moved. 2363 01:03:03,636 --> 01:03:04,270 What was the second part 2364 01:03:04,270 --> 01:03:05,370 of that question? 2365 01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:08,503 -Verify your identity 2366 01:03:08,503 --> 01:03:09,637 every time you prepare a filing. 2367 01:03:09,637 --> 01:03:11,137 No. Identity verification 2368 01:03:11,137 --> 01:03:12,970 is a one time thing. 2369 01:03:12,970 --> 01:03:14,037 If you are sponsored, 2370 01:03:14,037 --> 01:03:15,237 your sponsoring attorney 2371 01:03:15,237 --> 01:03:17,171 only needs to sponsor you the one time. 2372 01:03:17,171 --> 01:03:18,238 They may revoke it. 2373 01:03:18,238 --> 01:03:20,104 So use the sponsorship tool. 2374 01:03:20,104 --> 01:03:20,871 Look at your history. 2375 01:03:20,871 --> 01:03:22,605 If you don't see one in there, 2376 01:03:22,605 --> 01:03:23,005 it could have been 2377 01:03:23,005 --> 01:03:24,305 an attorney revoked it, 2378 01:03:24,305 --> 01:03:25,972 moved to a different firm or something. 2379 01:03:25,972 --> 01:03:27,538 They should revoke sponsorship 2380 01:03:27,538 --> 01:03:29,072 once they are no longer 2381 01:03:29,072 --> 01:03:30,505 your supervisor. 2382 01:03:30,505 --> 01:03:31,672 So those things might change. 2383 01:03:31,672 --> 01:03:33,872 And if you are supervised by 2384 01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:36,506 at least one attorney, 2385 01:03:36,506 --> 01:03:37,573 you'll be able to access 2386 01:03:37,573 --> 01:03:39,173 the filing system for now. 2387 01:03:39,173 --> 01:03:41,206 And if you lose that sponsorship, 2388 01:03:41,206 --> 01:03:42,040 you will no longer be able 2389 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,273 to access the filing system, 2390 01:03:43,273 --> 01:03:43,973 but you will be able 2391 01:03:43,973 --> 01:03:45,107 to access the sponsorship 2392 01:03:45,107 --> 01:03:46,940 tool, view your history 2393 01:03:46,940 --> 01:03:47,707 to see what happened, 2394 01:03:47,707 --> 01:03:48,540 if there is a mistake 2395 01:03:49,774 --> 01:03:51,007 or I don't want to give any 2396 01:03:51,007 --> 01:03:53,107 more bad news on this, but- -No bad news. 2397 01:03:54,374 --> 01:03:57,541 Now, remember, if if you 2398 01:03:57,541 --> 01:03:59,441 if you are in a law firm, 2399 01:03:59,441 --> 01:04:00,608 you're a paralegal in a law firm, 2400 01:04:00,608 --> 01:04:01,275 to get to the second part 2401 01:04:01,275 --> 01:04:02,441 of this question, right. 2402 01:04:02,441 --> 01:04:04,608 And when you joined the law firm, 2403 01:04:04,608 --> 01:04:06,042 the law firm verified 2404 01:04:06,042 --> 01:04:08,275 your identity under I-9 form, right. 2405 01:04:08,709 --> 01:04:10,475 Digital identity guidelines. 2406 01:04:10,475 --> 01:04:12,176 You're good. That's enough. 2407 01:04:12,176 --> 01:04:13,142 We're okay. 2408 01:04:13,142 --> 01:04:14,109 So you don't have to, 2409 01:04:14,109 --> 01:04:14,409 you know, 2410 01:04:14,409 --> 01:04:15,976 go through this rigamarole each time. 2411 01:04:15,976 --> 01:04:17,209 You as, you know, as 2412 01:04:17,209 --> 01:04:18,610 as being an employee 2413 01:04:18,610 --> 01:04:19,310 background check, 2414 01:04:19,310 --> 01:04:20,643 getting into that law firm, 2415 01:04:20,643 --> 01:04:22,277 you're that's enough. 2416 01:04:22,277 --> 01:04:23,043 The attorney just needs 2417 01:04:23,043 --> 01:04:24,443 to make sure that happened. 2418 01:04:24,443 --> 01:04:26,010 And then once once that's confirmed, 2419 01:04:26,010 --> 01:04:27,310 then you're good to go. 2420 01:04:27,644 --> 01:04:28,677 -So then, Amy, 2421 01:04:28,677 --> 01:04:29,544 what you're saying is 2422 01:04:29,544 --> 01:04:31,244 that so that that first 2423 01:04:32,377 --> 01:04:34,178 attorney sponsoring you 2424 01:04:34,178 --> 01:04:36,044 maybe performed that ID 2425 01:04:36,044 --> 01:04:37,411 verification, 2426 01:04:37,411 --> 01:04:38,945 everyone else at the firm knows that. 2427 01:04:38,945 --> 01:04:40,111 Then when you have subsequent 2428 01:04:40,111 --> 01:04:41,312 attorneys come in, 2429 01:04:41,312 --> 01:04:42,245 they don't do that part, 2430 01:04:42,245 --> 01:04:43,312 but they do still do 2431 01:04:43,312 --> 01:04:44,245 have to go to the 2432 01:04:44,245 --> 01:04:46,012 sponsorship tool and say, 2433 01:04:46,012 --> 01:04:47,412 "You know, I'm sponsoring this person." 2434 01:04:47,412 --> 01:04:49,446 But they don't actually have to do, 2435 01:04:49,446 --> 01:04:51,646 like you said, the groundwork of ID 2436 01:04:51,679 --> 01:04:52,446 verification because 2437 01:04:52,446 --> 01:04:53,579 that's already been done. 2438 01:04:53,579 --> 01:04:55,313 -Right. -Right. 2439 01:04:59,447 --> 01:05:00,380 -Okay. 2440 01:05:00,380 --> 01:05:02,513 "If a company has a trademark 2441 01:05:02,513 --> 01:05:03,714 and the person that took care of 2442 01:05:03,714 --> 01:05:05,014 this has left our company." 2443 01:05:05,014 --> 01:05:07,014 I'm sorry. That's a pain. 2444 01:05:07,014 --> 01:05:08,381 "How do we update 2445 01:05:08,381 --> 01:05:10,014 the trademark information? 2446 01:05:10,014 --> 01:05:11,481 And when we make a new account 2447 01:05:11,481 --> 01:05:13,048 for someone to take over, 2448 01:05:13,048 --> 01:05:13,981 how do we connect them 2449 01:05:13,981 --> 01:05:17,248 to our trademark and verify their ID?" 2450 01:05:17,982 --> 01:05:19,115 Who is this someone? 2451 01:05:20,182 --> 01:05:21,448 So. 2452 01:05:22,682 --> 01:05:23,015 Okay. 2453 01:05:23,015 --> 01:05:24,015 How do we answer this question? 2454 01:05:24,015 --> 01:05:26,016 So go ahead, Matt. 2455 01:05:26,016 --> 01:05:26,782 -Oh, I was gonna say, 2456 01:05:26,782 --> 01:05:28,349 I think this is a good opportunity 2457 01:05:28,349 --> 01:05:29,416 to clear up the differences 2458 01:05:29,416 --> 01:05:30,249 between some of the things 2459 01:05:30,249 --> 01:05:31,683 we've talked about. 2460 01:05:32,316 --> 01:05:34,550 One is who can sign. 2461 01:05:34,550 --> 01:05:34,850 Right. 2462 01:05:34,850 --> 01:05:35,916 And that's a different question 2463 01:05:35,916 --> 01:05:38,117 than who can access TEAS. 2464 01:05:38,117 --> 01:05:39,583 And those are different questions 2465 01:05:39,583 --> 01:05:42,150 also as who in phase 2466 01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:42,950 three, where remember, 2467 01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:43,784 this is the next 2468 01:05:43,784 --> 01:05:45,051 the next step that's not coming 2469 01:05:45,051 --> 01:05:46,884 until next year, 2470 01:05:46,884 --> 01:05:49,618 but who can who can come in and manage 2471 01:05:49,618 --> 01:05:51,051 a portfolio of trademarks 2472 01:05:51,051 --> 01:05:54,385 that has been secured to the owner? 2473 01:05:54,385 --> 01:05:55,852 Right now, 2474 01:05:56,118 --> 01:05:56,852 there is no need 2475 01:05:56,852 --> 01:05:59,018 to connect people to trademarks. 2476 01:05:59,018 --> 01:06:00,919 There is no need to sort of 2477 01:06:00,919 --> 01:06:01,985 create this portfolio. 2478 01:06:01,985 --> 01:06:02,952 That'll be something we'll 2479 01:06:02,952 --> 01:06:04,219 be able to accomplish later. 2480 01:06:05,452 --> 01:06:07,519 So right now, with this ID 2481 01:06:07,619 --> 01:06:09,019 verification requirement, 2482 01:06:09,019 --> 01:06:10,753 the basic idea is just 2483 01:06:10,753 --> 01:06:11,853 when someone comes in to file, 2484 01:06:11,853 --> 01:06:14,086 we want to know who they are. 2485 01:06:14,153 --> 01:06:15,020 And that's the that's 2486 01:06:15,020 --> 01:06:16,320 the main step here. 2487 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:17,187 We want to know what role 2488 01:06:17,187 --> 01:06:18,254 they're filing in, 2489 01:06:18,254 --> 01:06:19,287 and that will have a bearing 2490 01:06:19,287 --> 01:06:21,020 on their verification options 2491 01:06:21,020 --> 01:06:22,387 and their ability to sponsor 2492 01:06:22,387 --> 01:06:23,987 and some other things as well. 2493 01:06:23,987 --> 01:06:25,221 But but right now, 2494 01:06:25,221 --> 01:06:27,388 for the things we're discussing 2495 01:06:27,388 --> 01:06:28,621 that are going to be 2496 01:06:28,621 --> 01:06:30,855 mandatory on August 6th, 2497 01:06:30,855 --> 01:06:31,755 you don't need to worry 2498 01:06:31,755 --> 01:06:33,022 about people leaving 2499 01:06:33,022 --> 01:06:34,188 and people coming in and 2500 01:06:34,188 --> 01:06:35,955 how do I manage access to trademarks. 2501 01:06:35,955 --> 01:06:36,655 That won't be a part 2502 01:06:36,655 --> 01:06:38,822 of the August six deadline. 2503 01:06:41,689 --> 01:06:42,689 -So then, you know, 2504 01:06:42,689 --> 01:06:43,689 would you recommend that 2505 01:06:43,689 --> 01:06:45,889 if someone did leave 2506 01:06:46,123 --> 01:06:47,389 the company that someone else 2507 01:06:47,389 --> 01:06:47,956 from the company 2508 01:06:47,956 --> 01:06:48,656 who's authorized 2509 01:06:48,656 --> 01:06:49,790 to act on behalf of the company 2510 01:06:49,790 --> 01:06:51,190 can then come in, get ID 2511 01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:53,190 verified, get their account, 2512 01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:55,490 and then therefore have the ability to 2513 01:06:56,057 --> 01:06:57,624 interact with their files. 2514 01:06:57,624 --> 01:06:58,757 And then at a later point 2515 01:06:58,757 --> 01:06:59,557 that's, you know, 2516 01:06:59,557 --> 01:07:00,424 phase three is when you 2517 01:07:00,424 --> 01:07:02,057 start to worry about 2518 01:07:02,157 --> 01:07:03,624 access to certain files, 2519 01:07:03,624 --> 01:07:05,524 right? To answer that question. 2520 01:07:06,925 --> 01:07:07,858 -That was a good answer. 2521 01:07:07,858 --> 01:07:08,525 Yes. 2522 01:07:09,191 --> 01:07:10,958 Yeah. -Yeah, I think that's right. 2523 01:07:10,958 --> 01:07:11,292 You know, 2524 01:07:11,292 --> 01:07:11,892 you'll still need 2525 01:07:11,892 --> 01:07:13,358 an account to access them. 2526 01:07:13,358 --> 01:07:13,992 The account will need 2527 01:07:13,992 --> 01:07:15,459 to be ID verified. 2528 01:07:15,459 --> 01:07:18,059 And you will presumably, you know, 2529 01:07:18,059 --> 01:07:19,526 if you were replacing someone else 2530 01:07:19,526 --> 01:07:21,159 who is sort of a trademark manager role, 2531 01:07:21,159 --> 01:07:22,626 but was not a sponsored 2532 01:07:22,626 --> 01:07:24,259 support staff role, 2533 01:07:24,259 --> 01:07:25,059 that you would choose 2534 01:07:25,059 --> 01:07:26,126 the same role that they had, 2535 01:07:26,126 --> 01:07:27,760 probably the owner, 2536 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:29,060 when you come in to do that. 2537 01:07:29,060 --> 01:07:31,293 Those are all things that you can do, 2538 01:07:31,293 --> 01:07:33,527 you know, in less than 20 minutes, 2539 01:07:33,527 --> 01:07:34,960 if you want to create your account 2540 01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:36,160 and then go to ID.me 2541 01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:37,661 and do it that way. 2542 01:07:37,661 --> 01:07:39,161 Or again, it may take a few days 2543 01:07:39,161 --> 01:07:41,328 if you want to use the paper form. 2544 01:07:41,328 --> 01:07:42,828 So if there's going to be any, 2545 01:07:42,828 --> 01:07:45,395 if you suspect that you'll need to hop in 2546 01:07:45,395 --> 01:07:46,128 in short notice 2547 01:07:46,128 --> 01:07:46,895 and you want to use the paper 2548 01:07:46,895 --> 01:07:47,862 form, please leave time. 2549 01:07:54,329 --> 01:07:55,496 -The questions keep jumping around. 2550 01:07:55,496 --> 01:07:56,662 Sorry about that. 2551 01:07:57,262 --> 01:07:59,729 "Our law firm regularly requires clients 2552 01:07:59,729 --> 01:08:01,929 to sign the filings and declaration." 2553 01:08:02,063 --> 01:08:03,030 Yes. 2554 01:08:03,030 --> 01:08:03,930 "Does this mean each 2555 01:08:03,930 --> 01:08:05,463 client will be required 2556 01:08:05,463 --> 01:08:07,630 to go through the verification process?" 2557 01:08:08,363 --> 01:08:09,030 No. 2558 01:08:09,030 --> 01:08:10,030 As Matt just said, 2559 01:08:10,030 --> 01:08:11,230 and I think I said it before, 2560 01:08:11,230 --> 01:08:12,630 so there's a couple of different roles 2561 01:08:12,630 --> 01:08:13,864 involved with with 2562 01:08:13,864 --> 01:08:15,231 the application process, 2563 01:08:15,231 --> 01:08:17,497 one of which is the signing of it. 2564 01:08:17,497 --> 01:08:19,164 You do not have to have an account 2565 01:08:19,164 --> 01:08:20,698 to sign a submission, right? 2566 01:08:20,698 --> 01:08:22,431 That's the the e-sign, right? 2567 01:08:22,431 --> 01:08:22,998 You forward the, 2568 01:08:22,998 --> 01:08:24,798 the submission to your client 2569 01:08:24,798 --> 01:08:26,098 and your client sends it back to you 2570 01:08:26,098 --> 01:08:27,332 and then you submit it. 2571 01:08:27,332 --> 01:08:28,398 That's still the case. 2572 01:08:28,398 --> 01:08:30,032 So if you are, you know, 2573 01:08:30,032 --> 01:08:31,032 a corporate officer 2574 01:08:31,032 --> 01:08:32,432 and your general counsel 2575 01:08:32,432 --> 01:08:33,899 is filing the submissions 2576 01:08:33,899 --> 01:08:35,199 for you and the general counsel 2577 01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:35,932 doesn't want to sign them 2578 01:08:35,932 --> 01:08:36,966 for whatever reason. 2579 01:08:36,966 --> 01:08:37,799 General counsel sends it 2580 01:08:37,799 --> 01:08:38,599 to the corporate officer. 2581 01:08:38,599 --> 01:08:39,199 The corporate officer 2582 01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:40,333 signs it. The corporate officer 2583 01:08:40,333 --> 01:08:41,600 sends it back to the general counsel. 2584 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,800 The general counsel has an account 2585 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,600 and then submits. 2586 01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,333 So that's the same. Nothing, 2587 01:08:47,333 --> 01:08:48,600 nothing changes there. 2588 01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:49,500 There's no reason for 2589 01:08:49,500 --> 01:08:51,601 someone who's just signing 2590 01:08:51,601 --> 01:08:52,934 to have to go through the ID 2591 01:08:52,934 --> 01:08:53,734 verification process 2592 01:08:53,734 --> 01:08:54,301 and have an account. 2593 01:08:54,301 --> 01:08:56,068 Now they can have an account 2594 01:08:56,068 --> 01:08:57,301 to follow, you know, 2595 01:08:57,301 --> 01:08:57,968 and they don't have 2596 01:08:57,968 --> 01:08:59,801 to verify the account. 2597 01:08:59,801 --> 01:09:01,968 They can just use the widget functions. 2598 01:09:01,968 --> 01:09:02,702 So that's one thing 2599 01:09:02,702 --> 01:09:03,468 I don't think we've said. 2600 01:09:03,468 --> 01:09:05,935 So if you don't have, if your account 2601 01:09:05,935 --> 01:09:07,669 is not verified by August 6th, 2602 01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:09,002 you keep your account. 2603 01:09:09,002 --> 01:09:10,669 You just can't file anything, 2604 01:09:10,669 --> 01:09:12,469 but you can track things. 2605 01:09:12,469 --> 01:09:13,636 So we're not we're not sort of 2606 01:09:13,636 --> 01:09:15,569 just eliminating all of these accounts. 2607 01:09:15,569 --> 01:09:16,969 They're still there. 2608 01:09:16,969 --> 01:09:18,003 But you just can't file. 2609 01:09:18,970 --> 01:09:19,203 -Right. 2610 01:09:19,203 --> 01:09:19,770 That's a good point. 2611 01:09:19,770 --> 01:09:20,570 There's no shut off 2612 01:09:20,570 --> 01:09:22,203 that happens for your account 2613 01:09:22,203 --> 01:09:24,070 and access to your personal account 2614 01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:25,304 on August 6th. 2615 01:09:25,304 --> 01:09:26,637 It's just if it's not verified 2616 01:09:26,637 --> 01:09:27,804 and you go to file, 2617 01:09:27,804 --> 01:09:28,604 you won't be able to 2618 01:09:28,604 --> 01:09:30,171 until it's verified. 2619 01:09:33,171 --> 01:09:33,438 -Okay. 2620 01:09:33,438 --> 01:09:34,771 "I am doing the trademark 2621 01:09:34,771 --> 01:09:36,671 renewal for my company. 2622 01:09:36,671 --> 01:09:38,205 I am in the marketing department 2623 01:09:38,205 --> 01:09:39,038 and have been asked 2624 01:09:39,038 --> 01:09:40,005 by the owner to take 2625 01:09:40,005 --> 01:09:42,172 care of the renewals. 2626 01:09:42,172 --> 01:09:43,905 Will I be able to log in 2627 01:09:43,905 --> 01:09:45,172 and see the information 2628 01:09:45,172 --> 01:09:47,239 for the renewals?" 2629 01:09:48,372 --> 01:09:49,172 Okay. 2630 01:09:51,539 --> 01:09:54,173 If you are 2631 01:09:55,740 --> 01:09:58,106 a corporate employee 2632 01:09:58,106 --> 01:09:59,807 and you are not supervised 2633 01:09:59,807 --> 01:10:01,907 by an attorney, 2634 01:10:02,373 --> 01:10:04,474 you may not practice law 2635 01:10:05,140 --> 01:10:06,307 before the USPTO. 2636 01:10:06,307 --> 01:10:07,241 That means 2637 01:10:07,241 --> 01:10:09,441 that you cannot prepare submissions 2638 01:10:09,441 --> 01:10:11,141 to the USPTO 2639 01:10:11,141 --> 01:10:13,341 without an attorney supervising you. 2640 01:10:13,975 --> 01:10:18,008 Now you can prepare a submission 2641 01:10:18,075 --> 01:10:18,942 if the corporate, 2642 01:10:18,942 --> 01:10:19,975 if a corporate officer 2643 01:10:19,975 --> 01:10:20,908 or somebody with authority 2644 01:10:20,908 --> 01:10:22,909 to bind the corporation, the LLC, 2645 01:10:22,909 --> 01:10:24,309 whatever, partnership, 2646 01:10:24,309 --> 01:10:26,909 if they direct you in everything 2647 01:10:26,909 --> 01:10:27,876 and you're just writing down 2648 01:10:27,876 --> 01:10:29,543 what they tell you to say, 2649 01:10:29,543 --> 01:10:32,710 "mere scrivener," that's that quote. 2650 01:10:32,943 --> 01:10:33,776 "Mere scrivener." 2651 01:10:33,776 --> 01:10:35,976 If that's what you're doing, 2652 01:10:35,976 --> 01:10:38,810 you can have an owner, an ID 2653 01:10:38,843 --> 01:10:41,544 verified account with an owner role, 2654 01:10:41,544 --> 01:10:43,044 but you cannot practice law. 2655 01:10:44,011 --> 01:10:46,277 So you got to be careful here. 2656 01:10:46,277 --> 01:10:49,744 Now you can see any of our records 2657 01:10:49,744 --> 01:10:51,511 without a USPTO.gov account. 2658 01:10:51,511 --> 01:10:53,511 You can go in and look at whatever 2659 01:10:53,745 --> 01:10:55,145 you know, your trade, your company's 2660 01:10:55,145 --> 01:10:56,078 trademark registration. 2661 01:10:56,078 --> 01:10:57,712 You can see when the renewal's due. 2662 01:10:57,712 --> 01:10:59,712 You cannot file a submission 2663 01:10:59,712 --> 01:11:01,145 after August 6th without an ID 2664 01:11:01,145 --> 01:11:02,779 verified account. 2665 01:11:03,146 --> 01:11:04,246 And you have to choose 2666 01:11:04,246 --> 01:11:06,546 or your user role at that time. 2667 01:11:06,546 --> 01:11:08,079 You cannot choose a user role 2668 01:11:08,079 --> 01:11:11,580 if you are a non-attorney 2669 01:11:11,580 --> 01:11:13,346 entity practicing trademark law. 2670 01:11:13,346 --> 01:11:14,080 You can't. Because 2671 01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:14,680 you're not practicing. 2672 01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:15,613 You're not, you're not an attorney, 2673 01:11:15,613 --> 01:11:16,980 so you can't practice trademark law. 2674 01:11:16,980 --> 01:11:18,180 So, again, 2675 01:11:18,180 --> 01:11:19,880 this is a difficult situation. 2676 01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:21,114 It's worth, you know, 2677 01:11:21,114 --> 01:11:22,481 talking to OED, the Office 2678 01:11:22,481 --> 01:11:23,514 of Enrollment and Discipline 2679 01:11:23,514 --> 01:11:24,947 and finding out if your particular fact 2680 01:11:24,947 --> 01:11:25,948 pattern is okay. 2681 01:11:25,948 --> 01:11:27,281 The easiest thing to do, 2682 01:11:27,281 --> 01:11:28,514 it's expensive, is to 2683 01:11:28,514 --> 01:11:30,015 have an attorney on staff 2684 01:11:30,015 --> 01:11:31,481 who is supervising you. 2685 01:11:31,481 --> 01:11:32,982 That attorney has an account 2686 01:11:32,982 --> 01:11:34,615 and you are an attorney-sponsored 2687 01:11:34,615 --> 01:11:36,215 support staff account. 2688 01:11:36,215 --> 01:11:37,282 That's the way to do it. 2689 01:11:37,282 --> 01:11:38,415 So if your company 2690 01:11:38,415 --> 01:11:40,016 has a general counsel, 2691 01:11:40,016 --> 01:11:42,549 have them create an account, 2692 01:11:42,549 --> 01:11:43,749 ID-verified, choose the 2693 01:11:43,749 --> 01:11:44,983 the attorney role, 2694 01:11:44,983 --> 01:11:46,483 and then they sponsor 2695 01:11:46,483 --> 01:11:47,916 you as support staff. 2696 01:11:49,083 --> 01:11:50,150 If there's no attorney in 2697 01:11:50,150 --> 01:11:51,617 your corporation, 2698 01:11:51,617 --> 01:11:53,950 then that's a much harder fact pattern. 2699 01:11:54,417 --> 01:11:56,384 And then you're potentially walking 2700 01:11:56,384 --> 01:11:57,850 into the unauthorized practice of law 2701 01:11:57,850 --> 01:11:59,651 if you are preparing a submission. 2702 01:11:59,651 --> 01:12:02,618 Again, if you are merely scribing down, 2703 01:12:02,618 --> 01:12:03,684 merely writing down, 2704 01:12:03,684 --> 01:12:05,151 what a corporate officer is telling 2705 01:12:05,151 --> 01:12:06,951 you should go in the application, 2706 01:12:06,951 --> 01:12:07,885 okay. 2707 01:12:08,285 --> 01:12:10,018 You can have an account. 2708 01:12:10,152 --> 01:12:11,018 But you got to be 2709 01:12:11,018 --> 01:12:12,552 careful about that line. 2710 01:12:12,552 --> 01:12:14,152 So hopefully that helps. 2711 01:12:14,152 --> 01:12:14,352 What'd 2712 01:12:14,352 --> 01:12:15,519 I miss, guys? 2713 01:12:17,619 --> 01:12:19,952 -That's right on point. 2714 01:12:19,952 --> 01:12:22,119 Call, call OED if you have questions. 2715 01:12:22,719 --> 01:12:25,053 Check with your local bar 2716 01:12:25,186 --> 01:12:26,486 jurisdiction to see what 2717 01:12:26,486 --> 01:12:27,620 unauthorized practice is 2718 01:12:27,620 --> 01:12:28,920 in your jurisdiction. 2719 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:30,753 Those are good things to do anyway. 2720 01:12:30,753 --> 01:12:34,320 So that's what we recommend. 2721 01:12:35,420 --> 01:12:37,021 -I think there's there's two here 2722 01:12:37,021 --> 01:12:38,621 that I could knock out pretty fast. 2723 01:12:38,621 --> 01:12:40,221 "If we already filed an application, 2724 01:12:40,221 --> 01:12:42,454 do we still need to verify our identity?" 2725 01:12:42,454 --> 01:12:42,888 So. 2726 01:12:44,421 --> 01:12:46,121 I'll pull back the curtain. 2727 01:12:46,121 --> 01:12:47,255 And there's a term 2728 01:12:47,255 --> 01:12:49,088 in the trademark examination 2729 01:12:49,088 --> 01:12:50,955 corps called a "first action pub." 2730 01:12:50,955 --> 01:12:52,855 for "first action publication." 2731 01:12:52,855 --> 01:12:54,122 If you have done everything 2732 01:12:54,122 --> 01:12:56,356 perfectly right in your application 2733 01:12:56,356 --> 01:12:57,822 and it goes through and sails on 2734 01:12:57,822 --> 01:12:59,156 and it registers 2735 01:12:59,156 --> 01:12:59,356 you, 2736 01:12:59,589 --> 01:13:00,989 then you don't need 2737 01:13:00,989 --> 01:13:02,089 to verify your identity 2738 01:13:02,089 --> 01:13:03,890 until you need to file something. 2739 01:13:03,890 --> 01:13:04,523 And in that case, 2740 01:13:04,523 --> 01:13:05,623 that's going to be six 2741 01:13:05,623 --> 01:13:07,223 or seven years down the road. 2742 01:13:07,223 --> 01:13:08,723 However, for most people, 2743 01:13:08,723 --> 01:13:09,990 this is not the case. 2744 01:13:09,990 --> 01:13:11,057 You will need to file an SOU 2745 01:13:11,057 --> 01:13:12,890 or a response 2746 01:13:12,890 --> 01:13:14,191 or something else 2747 01:13:14,191 --> 01:13:16,057 after your initial application. 2748 01:13:16,057 --> 01:13:18,524 So I would encourage you, 2749 01:13:18,524 --> 01:13:19,124 especially if you 2750 01:13:19,124 --> 01:13:19,724 think you're going to file 2751 01:13:19,724 --> 01:13:21,625 more than one trademark, 2752 01:13:21,625 --> 01:13:22,791 again, to knock it out 2753 01:13:22,791 --> 01:13:24,725 in a convenient time for you 2754 01:13:24,725 --> 01:13:25,692 to become verified 2755 01:13:25,692 --> 01:13:26,925 so that you won't be up 2756 01:13:26,925 --> 01:13:27,925 against any deadlines 2757 01:13:27,925 --> 01:13:29,092 that you don't appreciate 2758 01:13:29,092 --> 01:13:31,025 when it comes time to file. 2759 01:13:31,025 --> 01:13:33,426 And then the law school clinic question. 2760 01:13:33,426 --> 01:13:34,859 "Are students in the law school clinic, 2761 01:13:35,959 --> 01:13:37,259 are they going to be considered 2762 01:13:37,259 --> 01:13:38,359 attorney support staff?" 2763 01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:41,760 Yes, they will be sponsored by the 2764 01:13:42,293 --> 01:13:44,793 supervising attorney in that law clinic 2765 01:13:44,793 --> 01:13:45,927 and they will be attorney 2766 01:13:45,927 --> 01:13:46,793 support staff 2767 01:13:46,793 --> 01:13:48,160 and they will have 2768 01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,460 the full rights of that role. 2769 01:13:50,460 --> 01:13:52,461 When they pass the bar, 2770 01:13:52,461 --> 01:13:55,328 presumably sometime after the clinic, 2771 01:13:55,328 --> 01:13:57,994 they can email the email address 2772 01:13:57,994 --> 01:13:59,495 TEAS@uspto.gov 2773 01:13:59,495 --> 01:14:00,861 and use that request form 2774 01:14:00,861 --> 01:14:02,562 that we saw to change their role. 2775 01:14:02,562 --> 01:14:04,262 That was on one of the earlier slides, 2776 01:14:04,262 --> 01:14:06,762 and they can move into the 2777 01:14:06,762 --> 01:14:07,395 U.S.-licensed or 2778 01:14:07,395 --> 01:14:09,862 Canadian attorney or agent role. 2779 01:14:11,229 --> 01:14:13,462 -So my boss wanted me 2780 01:14:13,462 --> 01:14:14,529 to clarify something 2781 01:14:14,529 --> 01:14:15,329 about the marketing 2782 01:14:15,329 --> 01:14:16,963 department question. 2783 01:14:16,963 --> 01:14:19,663 So if that corporation 2784 01:14:19,663 --> 01:14:20,663 with the person who, 2785 01:14:20,663 --> 01:14:21,563 the marketing department, 2786 01:14:21,563 --> 01:14:23,230 who's handling the trademark renewal, 2787 01:14:23,230 --> 01:14:25,330 we said if there's no attorney in there 2788 01:14:25,697 --> 01:14:27,130 in that corporation, 2789 01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:28,731 you really have to be careful here. 2790 01:14:28,731 --> 01:14:29,331 You need, 2791 01:14:29,331 --> 01:14:30,331 you need to have an attorney 2792 01:14:30,331 --> 01:14:31,364 supervising you. 2793 01:14:31,364 --> 01:14:32,864 Now, what my boss said is, well, 2794 01:14:32,864 --> 01:14:34,264 what if they have outside counsel? 2795 01:14:34,264 --> 01:14:35,464 Okay, yeah, fine. 2796 01:14:35,464 --> 01:14:36,531 You know, no problem. 2797 01:14:36,531 --> 01:14:37,365 The outside counsel, 2798 01:14:37,365 --> 01:14:38,431 the counsel is handling it 2799 01:14:38,431 --> 01:14:39,298 and the marketing person 2800 01:14:39,298 --> 01:14:40,998 is just talking to outside counsel 2801 01:14:40,998 --> 01:14:42,465 who is making the filing. 2802 01:14:42,465 --> 01:14:43,699 So that's fine. 2803 01:14:43,699 --> 01:14:44,765 There's an attorney there 2804 01:14:44,765 --> 01:14:45,899 and in the chain. 2805 01:14:45,899 --> 01:14:47,199 The marketing department person 2806 01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:48,799 actually doesn't really need an account 2807 01:14:48,799 --> 01:14:50,699 if there's an outside attorney 2808 01:14:50,699 --> 01:14:51,933 handling anything, 2809 01:14:51,933 --> 01:14:53,233 handling the filings. 2810 01:14:53,233 --> 01:14:55,200 So that would be a fact pattern "B" 2811 01:14:56,566 --> 01:14:59,433 that we needed to add there. 2812 01:14:59,433 --> 01:15:00,500 Thanks, boss. 2813 01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:03,800 Okay. 2814 01:15:06,067 --> 01:15:07,667 "What if I'm an employee of a company 2815 01:15:07,667 --> 01:15:08,634 for which I'm being asked 2816 01:15:08,634 --> 01:15:09,934 to manage the trademark? 2817 01:15:09,934 --> 01:15:11,201 What happens if I leave the trade, 2818 01:15:11,201 --> 01:15:12,768 the company eventually." 2819 01:15:12,768 --> 01:15:14,801 So you are, you have an 2820 01:15:14,801 --> 01:15:17,502 ID-verified account as the owner 2821 01:15:17,502 --> 01:15:20,835 and you leave and that, your account, 2822 01:15:20,835 --> 01:15:22,535 has been tied to all of the filings 2823 01:15:22,535 --> 01:15:24,002 from that owner. 2824 01:15:24,002 --> 01:15:24,969 So once you leave, then, 2825 01:15:24,969 --> 01:15:26,636 we need to get you 2826 01:15:26,636 --> 01:15:28,369 out of that owner role. 2827 01:15:28,369 --> 01:15:30,003 You still can have a verified account. 2828 01:15:30,003 --> 01:15:30,936 But the question is, 2829 01:15:30,936 --> 01:15:33,136 you know, do you still need, 2830 01:15:33,136 --> 01:15:34,236 what role are you? 2831 01:15:34,236 --> 01:15:36,470 Well, it depends on where you go next. 2832 01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:37,970 When we get to phase three, 2833 01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:39,670 we'll figure out the withdrawal, 2834 01:15:39,670 --> 01:15:40,137 I guess. 2835 01:15:40,137 --> 01:15:40,937 I don't know if withdrawal 2836 01:15:40,937 --> 01:15:42,304 is the right term, but we'll figure out 2837 01:15:42,304 --> 01:15:44,304 how do we get you out of that. 2838 01:15:44,304 --> 01:15:45,637 Because you should not be able 2839 01:15:45,637 --> 01:15:47,604 to retain access to all those filings, 2840 01:15:47,604 --> 01:15:47,904 right? 2841 01:15:47,904 --> 01:15:48,371 Because you're not, 2842 01:15:48,371 --> 01:15:49,738 you're no longer at the company. 2843 01:15:49,738 --> 01:15:50,904 And in that sense, 2844 01:15:50,904 --> 01:15:52,171 it's probably up to the company 2845 01:15:52,171 --> 01:15:52,838 to try to make sure 2846 01:15:52,838 --> 01:15:54,271 that they're handling 2847 01:15:54,271 --> 01:15:56,672 all of the USPTO.gov accounts, 2848 01:15:57,405 --> 01:15:59,172 you know, cutting off the ones 2849 01:15:59,172 --> 01:16:00,439 where the person has left 2850 01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:01,339 or what have you. 2851 01:16:01,339 --> 01:16:02,472 So that is something 2852 01:16:02,472 --> 01:16:04,672 that we will address in future 2853 01:16:04,672 --> 01:16:05,739 iterations of phase 2854 01:16:05,739 --> 01:16:07,939 three as we move forward there. 2855 01:16:07,939 --> 01:16:08,573 -Yes. Yes. 2856 01:16:08,573 --> 01:16:09,539 The business requirements 2857 01:16:09,539 --> 01:16:10,940 are continually ongoing 2858 01:16:10,940 --> 01:16:12,206 for phase three. 2859 01:16:12,206 --> 01:16:13,040 And, 2860 01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:13,840 you know, in terms 2861 01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,640 of choosing a role now, again, 2862 01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:17,140 choose the role 2863 01:16:17,140 --> 01:16:19,140 that is appropriate for you. 2864 01:16:19,140 --> 01:16:21,507 It's quite likely that, you know, people 2865 01:16:21,507 --> 01:16:24,074 are going to change the level of access 2866 01:16:24,507 --> 01:16:25,574 but keep the same role. 2867 01:16:25,574 --> 01:16:26,674 And there are going to be some times 2868 01:16:26,674 --> 01:16:28,341 when people change roles as well, 2869 01:16:28,341 --> 01:16:29,141 but want to keep the same 2870 01:16:29,141 --> 01:16:31,975 access or change it. So we are 2871 01:16:33,475 --> 01:16:34,508 diligently working on 2872 01:16:34,508 --> 01:16:36,175 ways to make sure 2873 01:16:36,175 --> 01:16:38,309 that people have access to the files 2874 01:16:38,309 --> 01:16:39,475 that they're entitled to 2875 01:16:39,475 --> 01:16:41,109 while still providing a high level 2876 01:16:41,109 --> 01:16:42,542 of security for filers, 2877 01:16:42,542 --> 01:16:44,409 so they are not harassed 2878 01:16:44,409 --> 01:16:45,709 by outside parties 2879 01:16:45,709 --> 01:16:46,709 who are unrelated 2880 01:16:46,709 --> 01:16:48,443 or making changes or filing 2881 01:16:48,443 --> 01:16:50,143 changes of correspondence 2882 01:16:50,143 --> 01:16:51,477 on their, on their 2883 01:16:51,477 --> 01:16:54,310 applications or registrations. 2884 01:16:55,710 --> 01:16:56,044 -Okay. 2885 01:16:56,044 --> 01:16:57,910 "You must verify your identity 2886 01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:59,044 if you are a trademark owner 2887 01:16:59,044 --> 01:17:00,211 or corporate officer 2888 01:17:00,211 --> 01:17:02,011 not represented by an attorney. 2889 01:17:02,011 --> 01:17:04,444 So a corporate officer of a corporation 2890 01:17:04,944 --> 01:17:06,678 as an owner, president, 2891 01:17:06,678 --> 01:17:08,978 can sponsor the paralegal staff?" 2892 01:17:09,611 --> 01:17:10,212 No. 2893 01:17:10,712 --> 01:17:11,578 Several corporations 2894 01:17:11,578 --> 01:17:12,578 are in the same situation 2895 01:17:12,578 --> 01:17:14,345 and it's not clear. And I apologize. 2896 01:17:14,345 --> 01:17:16,012 We've gone through so much information, 2897 01:17:16,012 --> 01:17:18,412 so I know it's confusing. Okay. 2898 01:17:18,412 --> 01:17:21,046 The corporate officer, 2899 01:17:21,413 --> 01:17:22,913 president of a corporation, 2900 01:17:22,913 --> 01:17:23,646 has the authority 2901 01:17:23,646 --> 01:17:24,813 to bind the corporation 2902 01:17:24,813 --> 01:17:25,813 and has the authority 2903 01:17:25,813 --> 01:17:27,280 to prepare the applications 2904 01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:29,380 on behalf of the corporation 2905 01:17:29,380 --> 01:17:31,313 and sign them and submit them 2906 01:17:31,313 --> 01:17:33,280 as the president of the corporation. 2907 01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:33,647 Okay. 2908 01:17:35,114 --> 01:17:36,647 Down from there then, 2909 01:17:36,647 --> 01:17:37,047 right? 2910 01:17:37,047 --> 01:17:39,247 Not a corporate officer. Their, 2911 01:17:39,581 --> 01:17:41,148 the authority to sign, 2912 01:17:41,148 --> 01:17:41,714 could be. 2913 01:17:41,714 --> 01:17:44,015 Depends on the fact pattern, right? 2914 01:17:44,015 --> 01:17:46,515 But there is no sponsorship 2915 01:17:46,515 --> 01:17:48,348 in the owner role. 2916 01:17:48,348 --> 01:17:49,415 There's sponsorship 2917 01:17:49,415 --> 01:17:50,882 in the attorney role 2918 01:17:50,882 --> 01:17:52,882 because attorneys are under all kinds 2919 01:17:52,882 --> 01:17:53,949 of ethical obligations 2920 01:17:53,949 --> 01:17:55,482 to directly supervise. 2921 01:17:55,482 --> 01:17:56,582 So we felt comfortable 2922 01:17:56,582 --> 01:17:58,116 in creating that, that 2923 01:17:58,116 --> 01:18:00,249 in in the attorney space. 2924 01:18:00,249 --> 01:18:01,116 There's lots of ways 2925 01:18:01,116 --> 01:18:02,483 to hold attorneys accountable 2926 01:18:02,483 --> 01:18:03,550 for their directly 2927 01:18:03,550 --> 01:18:04,883 supervised staff 2928 01:18:04,883 --> 01:18:06,117 if they don't do a good job. 2929 01:18:06,117 --> 01:18:07,417 In the owner space, 2930 01:18:07,417 --> 01:18:10,050 it's less so. Less clear. 2931 01:18:10,050 --> 01:18:10,984 So who is speaking 2932 01:18:10,984 --> 01:18:12,517 on behalf of the owner? 2933 01:18:12,517 --> 01:18:13,150 And that, again, 2934 01:18:13,150 --> 01:18:14,884 that's where we want to be, have 2935 01:18:14,884 --> 01:18:15,884 have the assurances 2936 01:18:15,884 --> 01:18:18,218 that this is the owner's wishes. 2937 01:18:18,584 --> 01:18:19,718 So to the extent that, 2938 01:18:19,718 --> 01:18:21,851 you know, a corporation has, 2939 01:18:21,851 --> 01:18:23,918 you know, employees 2940 01:18:23,918 --> 01:18:25,985 who are not supervised by an attorney, 2941 01:18:25,985 --> 01:18:27,552 who are not directly supervised 2942 01:18:27,552 --> 01:18:29,519 by the corporate officers, 2943 01:18:29,519 --> 01:18:30,885 we don't have assurances 2944 01:18:30,885 --> 01:18:33,252 that those people are filing, 2945 01:18:33,252 --> 01:18:34,952 you know, on behalf of the owner 2946 01:18:34,952 --> 01:18:36,386 and speaking for the owner 2947 01:18:36,386 --> 01:18:37,719 and can bind the owner. 2948 01:18:37,719 --> 01:18:40,420 So it gets murky in this situation. 2949 01:18:40,420 --> 01:18:41,486 And this is where 2950 01:18:42,953 --> 01:18:43,920 we're trying to be really 2951 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:44,987 clear, but I'm not sure 2952 01:18:44,987 --> 01:18:45,853 we're succeeding, 2953 01:18:45,853 --> 01:18:47,154 and I apologize for that. 2954 01:18:47,154 --> 01:18:48,387 If there is no attorney 2955 01:18:48,387 --> 01:18:49,920 in that corporation 2956 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:50,921 and somebody is doing 2957 01:18:50,921 --> 01:18:52,087 trademark preparation work, 2958 01:18:52,087 --> 01:18:53,121 that attorney is, 2959 01:18:53,121 --> 01:18:53,954 that non-attorney 2960 01:18:53,954 --> 01:18:54,954 is probably engaging 2961 01:18:54,954 --> 01:18:57,321 in the unauthorized practice of law. 2962 01:18:57,321 --> 01:18:59,521 So that is not good. 2963 01:18:59,888 --> 01:19:01,721 Now, how do you solve that? 2964 01:19:01,721 --> 01:19:02,755 You get an attorney 2965 01:19:02,755 --> 01:19:03,688 in the corporation 2966 01:19:03,688 --> 01:19:05,688 or you get outside counsel 2967 01:19:05,755 --> 01:19:07,555 with an attorney. 2968 01:19:07,689 --> 01:19:09,022 Either of those scenarios. 2969 01:19:09,022 --> 01:19:11,056 Put an attorney in the chain either way 2970 01:19:11,422 --> 01:19:12,956 and you're okay. 2971 01:19:12,956 --> 01:19:13,989 And then whoever 2972 01:19:13,989 --> 01:19:15,389 is preparing the application 2973 01:19:15,389 --> 01:19:16,423 under the direct supervision 2974 01:19:16,423 --> 01:19:18,190 of the attorney, we're good. 2975 01:19:18,190 --> 01:19:19,656 But then you have an attorney 2976 01:19:19,656 --> 01:19:21,057 and attorney support staff 2977 01:19:21,057 --> 01:19:22,090 within the corporation, 2978 01:19:22,090 --> 01:19:24,590 and that's fine. Or externally. 2979 01:19:24,890 --> 01:19:25,990 The only problem is 2980 01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:28,090 when there's no attorney involved. 2981 01:19:28,090 --> 01:19:29,591 Then we are in the 2982 01:19:29,591 --> 01:19:30,591 unauthorized practice of law, 2983 01:19:30,591 --> 01:19:31,924 UPL, as we call it, 2984 01:19:31,924 --> 01:19:33,991 UPL territory potentially. 2985 01:19:33,991 --> 01:19:36,258 And the way to save that 2986 01:19:36,258 --> 01:19:38,625 is to have the employee 2987 01:19:38,658 --> 01:19:40,325 who has a USPTO.gov account 2988 01:19:40,325 --> 01:19:42,358 to be a mere scrivener 2989 01:19:42,358 --> 01:19:43,525 and say, write down 2990 01:19:43,525 --> 01:19:45,125 exactly what the corporate officer, 2991 01:19:45,125 --> 01:19:46,292 the president is saying 2992 01:19:46,292 --> 01:19:47,159 should go in there. 2993 01:19:47,159 --> 01:19:48,192 But that person cannot 2994 01:19:48,192 --> 01:19:49,359 provide legal advice. 2995 01:19:49,359 --> 01:19:50,126 They cannot provide 2996 01:19:50,126 --> 01:19:51,059 a trademark clearance search 2997 01:19:51,059 --> 01:19:53,226 with registrability opinions, 2998 01:19:53,226 --> 01:19:55,426 and they can't do anything 2999 01:19:55,660 --> 01:19:57,793 that is the, considered 3000 01:19:57,793 --> 01:19:59,427 the practice of law before the USPTO. 3001 01:20:00,493 --> 01:20:01,227 So we're going to 3002 01:20:01,227 --> 01:20:04,227 give, allow an account in that situation 3003 01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,461 and we leave it to the corporation to 3004 01:20:06,494 --> 01:20:07,961 to make sure that that person's 3005 01:20:07,961 --> 01:20:09,561 not practicing law 3006 01:20:09,561 --> 01:20:11,794 when they're not supposed to be doing. 3007 01:20:11,794 --> 01:20:13,228 Did I get any better on that, 3008 01:20:13,228 --> 01:20:14,995 any more clarity on that? 3009 01:20:14,995 --> 01:20:15,695 I hope. 3010 01:20:16,428 --> 01:20:17,262 Well, I have a feeling 3011 01:20:17,262 --> 01:20:18,128 will be asked that again 3012 01:20:18,128 --> 01:20:19,662 with a different fact pattern, right? 3013 01:20:19,662 --> 01:20:20,628 -I don't want Amy to be 3014 01:20:20,628 --> 01:20:21,895 the only one who has the thrill 3015 01:20:21,895 --> 01:20:23,995 of citing federal rules 3016 01:20:23,995 --> 01:20:25,929 during this webinar. 3017 01:20:25,996 --> 01:20:28,096 So one of the reasons that, you know, 3018 01:20:28,096 --> 01:20:29,796 we have this sponsorship model 3019 01:20:29,796 --> 01:20:31,263 and the support staff model 3020 01:20:31,263 --> 01:20:34,230 is because it is expressly mentioned in 3021 01:20:34,230 --> 01:20:36,563 37 CFR 11.5. Nothing 3022 01:20:37,663 --> 01:20:40,497 prescribes a practitioner from employing 3023 01:20:40,497 --> 01:20:41,764 or retaining 3024 01:20:41,764 --> 01:20:42,630 non-practitioners, 3025 01:20:42,630 --> 01:20:44,331 support staff, or assistance. 3026 01:20:44,331 --> 01:20:45,964 And so that is where, 3027 01:20:45,964 --> 01:20:48,131 you know, this all sort of flows from. 3028 01:20:48,964 --> 01:20:49,964 You know, it's, it's 3029 01:20:49,964 --> 01:20:50,631 this way, this 3030 01:20:50,631 --> 01:20:52,598 and this is a USPTO wide provision, 3031 01:20:52,598 --> 01:20:53,531 not just for Trademarks. 3032 01:20:53,531 --> 01:20:54,398 And that's why Patents 3033 01:20:54,398 --> 01:20:56,065 has the same arrangement. 3034 01:20:56,065 --> 01:20:57,765 And, you know, those of you 3035 01:20:57,765 --> 01:20:59,232 who practice in both fields 3036 01:20:59,232 --> 01:21:00,432 would notice that, 3037 01:21:00,432 --> 01:21:02,366 you know, we've sort of got the same, 3038 01:21:02,366 --> 01:21:03,232 the same arrangement. 3039 01:21:03,232 --> 01:21:05,599 And it's going back to this, right? 3040 01:21:05,599 --> 01:21:07,666 We know we have a list of 3041 01:21:07,666 --> 01:21:09,099 who can be a practitioner. 3042 01:21:09,099 --> 01:21:10,266 And in this case, it's 3043 01:21:10,266 --> 01:21:12,233 Canadian attorneys and agents and 3044 01:21:12,233 --> 01:21:13,667 U.S.-licensed attorneys for 3045 01:21:13,667 --> 01:21:15,233 for trademark filing. 3046 01:21:15,233 --> 01:21:17,467 And we know that they are authorized 3047 01:21:17,534 --> 01:21:18,800 to retain non- 3048 01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:20,967 practitioner support staff. 3049 01:21:20,967 --> 01:21:23,334 And then everybody else, 3050 01:21:23,334 --> 01:21:25,168 you know, is not in that boat. 3051 01:21:25,168 --> 01:21:26,068 And they are not bound 3052 01:21:26,068 --> 01:21:27,634 by the same ethical rules 3053 01:21:27,634 --> 01:21:29,635 and obligations as the attorneys are. 3054 01:21:29,968 --> 01:21:31,768 So that is why the owner role 3055 01:21:31,768 --> 01:21:33,135 seems to be a little more 3056 01:21:33,135 --> 01:21:34,402 fluid and a little more, 3057 01:21:35,802 --> 01:21:37,035 a little a little tougher to 3058 01:21:37,035 --> 01:21:38,102 define because it's 3059 01:21:38,102 --> 01:21:40,136 really not defined in our rules. 3060 01:21:40,136 --> 01:21:42,469 So it's it's sort of what, you know, 3061 01:21:42,869 --> 01:21:45,769 either you are essentially the owner 3062 01:21:46,069 --> 01:21:46,970 or you're holding yourself 3063 01:21:46,970 --> 01:21:48,003 out to the public 3064 01:21:48,003 --> 01:21:49,936 as someone who's representing clients 3065 01:21:49,936 --> 01:21:51,337 in the practice of trademark law. 3066 01:21:51,337 --> 01:21:52,737 And that's the line. 3067 01:21:52,737 --> 01:21:54,470 And if you're associated on 3068 01:21:54,470 --> 01:21:55,904 the practice of law side, 3069 01:21:55,904 --> 01:21:57,137 there's additional rules. 3070 01:21:57,137 --> 01:21:58,837 You can have support staff 3071 01:21:58,837 --> 01:22:00,371 and otherwise, you know, no, 3072 01:22:00,371 --> 01:22:02,371 you don't have that sponsorship ability 3073 01:22:02,771 --> 01:22:04,338 because you're not bound 3074 01:22:04,338 --> 01:22:06,938 by those same rules. So. 3075 01:22:06,938 --> 01:22:08,438 And I think we just lost 3076 01:22:08,438 --> 01:22:09,672 100 attendees from that. 3077 01:22:09,672 --> 01:22:10,405 Sorry. 3078 01:22:12,772 --> 01:22:13,672 -Okay, it looks like. 3079 01:22:13,672 --> 01:22:15,272 "Can you sponsor support staff 3080 01:22:15,272 --> 01:22:16,439 that is a contractor 3081 01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:17,739 and not an employee? 3082 01:22:17,739 --> 01:22:19,439 She, of course, would be supervised 3083 01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,339 by the attorney." 3084 01:22:21,339 --> 01:22:22,773 So I guess there's an attorney 3085 01:22:22,773 --> 01:22:24,173 and then you've got 3086 01:22:24,173 --> 01:22:27,173 a paralegal, an outside paralegal 3087 01:22:27,173 --> 01:22:28,440 who is the support staff 3088 01:22:28,440 --> 01:22:29,540 for the attorney, 3089 01:22:29,540 --> 01:22:31,273 if I'm getting the fact pattern right. 3090 01:22:33,740 --> 01:22:35,274 So if that person is 3091 01:22:35,274 --> 01:22:38,074 an employee or retained 3092 01:22:38,074 --> 01:22:38,574 under, 3093 01:22:38,574 --> 01:22:40,408 if you go look at the rule 3094 01:22:40,408 --> 01:22:41,708 that Matt just cited, so 3095 01:22:41,708 --> 01:22:43,475 exciting, 37 C.F.R. 11.5(b), 3096 01:22:43,475 --> 01:22:45,875 3097 01:22:46,208 --> 01:22:48,842 the practitioner can employ 3098 01:22:48,842 --> 01:22:50,809 or retain non-practitioner assistance 3099 01:22:50,809 --> 01:22:51,775 under the supervision 3100 01:22:51,775 --> 01:22:52,509 of the practitioner 3101 01:22:52,509 --> 01:22:54,642 to assist the practitioner in matters 3102 01:22:54,642 --> 01:22:55,642 pending or contemplated 3103 01:22:55,642 --> 01:22:56,842 to be presented before the office. 3104 01:22:56,842 --> 01:22:57,876 So that's the, that's the, 3105 01:22:57,876 --> 01:22:59,509 the practice of law part. 3106 01:22:59,509 --> 01:23:01,910 So the, that that person, to the extent 3107 01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:04,010 they are employed or retained by you, 3108 01:23:04,010 --> 01:23:06,010 the attorney, that's fine. 3109 01:23:06,010 --> 01:23:07,910 Now you're asking whether they can. 3110 01:23:07,910 --> 01:23:08,810 No, that's the another one 3111 01:23:08,810 --> 01:23:09,844 that you assigned. 3112 01:23:10,210 --> 01:23:10,877 Can you sponsor. 3113 01:23:10,877 --> 01:23:11,310 Yes. 3114 01:23:11,310 --> 01:23:13,944 So you can sponsor. 3115 01:23:14,644 --> 01:23:16,511 I'm making sure. 3116 01:23:16,511 --> 01:23:17,411 -You know, I think 3117 01:23:17,411 --> 01:23:18,211 one other resource 3118 01:23:18,211 --> 01:23:19,044 that we haven't mentioned 3119 01:23:19,044 --> 01:23:20,678 that actually covers this fairly 3120 01:23:20,678 --> 01:23:21,211 well and that you'll 3121 01:23:21,211 --> 01:23:22,011 be getting an email 3122 01:23:22,011 --> 01:23:23,078 about an update to soon 3123 01:23:23,078 --> 01:23:24,478 is something you've 3124 01:23:24,478 --> 01:23:25,612 you've all agreed to. It's 3125 01:23:26,678 --> 01:23:28,179 the USPTO trademark 3126 01:23:28,179 --> 01:23:30,212 verified account agreement. 3127 01:23:30,212 --> 01:23:33,112 And what this is, is for your USPTO.gov 3128 01:23:33,112 --> 01:23:34,112 account. 3129 01:23:34,112 --> 01:23:37,079 There's a brief eight-page document 3130 01:23:37,379 --> 01:23:39,380 that I'm sure we all read through, 3131 01:23:39,380 --> 01:23:40,313 but it explains a lot of 3132 01:23:40,313 --> 01:23:41,846 these things and binds you. 3133 01:23:41,846 --> 01:23:42,947 And it explains in 3134 01:23:42,947 --> 01:23:44,747 even a little more detail than the rule 3135 01:23:44,747 --> 01:23:47,114 what exactly is expected 3136 01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:48,814 in the sponsorship role. 3137 01:23:48,814 --> 01:23:50,314 So when you are sponsoring someone, 3138 01:23:50,314 --> 01:23:52,547 what relationship can they have to you? 3139 01:23:52,547 --> 01:23:54,481 So that's another good resource, 3140 01:23:54,481 --> 01:23:55,148 you know, for, for any, 3141 01:23:55,148 --> 01:23:56,314 any other questions 3142 01:23:56,314 --> 01:23:56,914 like these with the 3143 01:23:56,914 --> 01:23:57,814 various fact patterns, 3144 01:23:57,814 --> 01:23:59,948 it goes into a little more detail. 3145 01:23:59,948 --> 01:24:01,415 -Now that account agreement, 3146 01:24:01,415 --> 01:24:02,715 we are updating with 3147 01:24:02,715 --> 01:24:03,682 all of this information 3148 01:24:03,682 --> 01:24:05,148 that we provided today. 3149 01:24:05,148 --> 01:24:07,282 We are releasing that in the next week. 3150 01:24:07,682 --> 01:24:09,282 So you will get an email 3151 01:24:09,282 --> 01:24:11,049 as an account holder 3152 01:24:11,049 --> 01:24:12,249 that there is a new agreement 3153 01:24:12,249 --> 01:24:13,283 to which you would be bound 3154 01:24:13,283 --> 01:24:14,049 and it will have 3155 01:24:14,049 --> 01:24:14,916 all of this information. 3156 01:24:14,916 --> 01:24:16,449 So if you go looking for it right now, 3157 01:24:16,449 --> 01:24:17,350 this information won't 3158 01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:19,050 necessarily be in there. 3159 01:24:19,050 --> 01:24:19,850 All of the information 3160 01:24:19,850 --> 01:24:20,817 we're providing today. 3161 01:24:20,817 --> 01:24:22,683 It will be when you get an email saying 3162 01:24:22,683 --> 01:24:24,184 we have updated this agreement. 3163 01:24:24,184 --> 01:24:25,650 At that time, we will also have 3164 01:24:25,650 --> 01:24:27,450 a new web page with user role 3165 01:24:27,450 --> 01:24:29,584 information on it available to you. 3166 01:24:29,584 --> 01:24:31,317 We already issued a Federal Register 3167 01:24:31,317 --> 01:24:33,718 Notice on Monday, on Monday, 3168 01:24:34,418 --> 01:24:36,685 about the user roles and the ID 3169 01:24:36,751 --> 01:24:38,585 verification program. 3170 01:24:38,585 --> 01:24:39,785 So hopefully you can 3171 01:24:39,785 --> 01:24:40,952 find all of that information, 3172 01:24:40,952 --> 01:24:42,152 but we will be putting out more 3173 01:24:42,152 --> 01:24:43,985 information, as Matt said. 3174 01:24:45,752 --> 01:24:46,052 -Yes. 3175 01:24:46,052 --> 01:24:46,485 And I'm sorry. 3176 01:24:46,485 --> 01:24:47,686 I didn't mean to mislead. 3177 01:24:47,686 --> 01:24:49,719 The account agreement is forthcoming, 3178 01:24:49,719 --> 01:24:51,619 and we'll have a new section on roles 3179 01:24:51,619 --> 01:24:53,819 that's not in the current one. 3180 01:24:55,220 --> 01:24:56,986 -"As an in-house paralegal working 3181 01:24:56,986 --> 01:24:57,786 under the supervision 3182 01:24:57,786 --> 01:24:58,987 of in-house general counsel, 3183 01:24:58,987 --> 01:25:00,620 can I sign maintenance 3184 01:25:00,620 --> 01:25:02,487 or renewal applications for existing 3185 01:25:02,487 --> 01:25:03,754 trademark registrations?" 3186 01:25:03,754 --> 01:25:04,220 Well, that's kind 3187 01:25:04,220 --> 01:25:05,054 of a different question. 3188 01:25:05,054 --> 01:25:07,154 Signatory authority. 3189 01:25:07,154 --> 01:25:08,187 And if you recall 3190 01:25:08,187 --> 01:25:09,988 the slide that I put up 3191 01:25:09,988 --> 01:25:12,021 about who who can sign, 3192 01:25:12,721 --> 01:25:13,555 and it depends 3193 01:25:13,555 --> 01:25:15,288 if it's a verification or a fact 3194 01:25:15,288 --> 01:25:17,188 or if it's a response. 3195 01:25:17,188 --> 01:25:19,055 I wonder if I should put up that. 3196 01:25:23,355 --> 01:25:24,322 Did it go? 3197 01:25:27,089 --> 01:25:27,322 Okay. 3198 01:25:27,322 --> 01:25:28,789 So here's a signature. 3199 01:25:28,789 --> 01:25:31,456 So if you can meet 3200 01:25:31,456 --> 01:25:32,823 any of these criterias, 3201 01:25:32,823 --> 01:25:34,923 then you can sign. 3202 01:25:35,123 --> 01:25:38,190 But if you don't, then you cannot. 3203 01:25:38,190 --> 01:25:40,090 So again, go to the signature rules 3204 01:25:40,090 --> 01:25:42,190 and then you'll have 3205 01:25:42,190 --> 01:25:43,157 a little bit more clarity. 3206 01:25:43,157 --> 01:25:43,857 Bob, do you have anything 3207 01:25:43,857 --> 01:25:44,557 to add on that one? 3208 01:25:45,824 --> 01:25:46,958 -No, that's what I was going to 3209 01:25:46,958 --> 01:25:48,991 say, is to consider 3210 01:25:48,991 --> 01:25:50,124 what it is you're signing 3211 01:25:50,124 --> 01:25:51,858 and what the particular signature is, 3212 01:25:51,858 --> 01:25:53,958 and that will tell you whether you're 3213 01:25:53,958 --> 01:25:56,058 authorized or not. 3214 01:25:57,325 --> 01:25:57,558 -All right. 3215 01:25:57,558 --> 01:25:58,625 I'm going to pull this down now 3216 01:25:58,625 --> 01:26:00,725 so I can see the chat. 3217 01:26:01,792 --> 01:26:03,792 "What does it mean, "owner"? 3218 01:26:03,792 --> 01:26:04,659 Does an employee 3219 01:26:04,659 --> 01:26:05,726 of the corporation count 3220 01:26:05,726 --> 01:26:07,826 under this category?" 3221 01:26:08,359 --> 01:26:09,326 It depends on the nature 3222 01:26:09,326 --> 01:26:10,793 of the employee, as we said. 3223 01:26:10,793 --> 01:26:12,526 So owner, generally, 3224 01:26:12,526 --> 01:26:14,060 if it's an individual, that's an owner. 3225 01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:14,960 When if it's a corporate 3226 01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:16,060 entity, it's generally 3227 01:26:16,060 --> 01:26:17,594 going to be a corporate officer, 3228 01:26:17,594 --> 01:26:18,560 someone who has the authority 3229 01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:19,794 to bind the corporation. 3230 01:26:19,794 --> 01:26:21,561 But we will allow 3231 01:26:21,561 --> 01:26:22,761 an owner account to be held 3232 01:26:22,761 --> 01:26:23,961 by a direct employee 3233 01:26:23,961 --> 01:26:25,128 without a financial interest 3234 01:26:25,128 --> 01:26:25,728 in the outcome of the 3235 01:26:25,728 --> 01:26:26,928 registration process. 3236 01:26:26,928 --> 01:26:29,261 So not outside. Inside. 3237 01:26:30,061 --> 01:26:32,995 Who is acting as a mere scrivener 3238 01:26:33,895 --> 01:26:35,795 for the corporate officer 3239 01:26:35,795 --> 01:26:38,962 unless there is an attorney on staff 3240 01:26:38,962 --> 01:26:39,629 there who's directly 3241 01:26:39,629 --> 01:26:41,562 supervising that employee. 3242 01:26:42,963 --> 01:26:44,496 I understand that's a little confusing, 3243 01:26:44,496 --> 01:26:45,063 but hopefully we've 3244 01:26:45,063 --> 01:26:46,630 gone over it enough. 3245 01:26:48,596 --> 01:26:49,696 -I see two that I can 3246 01:26:49,696 --> 01:26:50,763 knock out pretty quick, 3247 01:26:50,763 --> 01:26:52,263 just technical questions. 3248 01:26:52,263 --> 01:26:53,964 "What if your legal surname differs 3249 01:26:53,964 --> 01:26:55,197 from the surname under 3250 01:26:55,197 --> 01:26:57,330 which you practice as an attorney?" 3251 01:26:57,330 --> 01:26:58,831 Please note that you are verifying 3252 01:26:58,831 --> 01:27:00,164 the information in your 3253 01:27:00,164 --> 01:27:01,131 USPTO.gov account. 3254 01:27:01,131 --> 01:27:03,464 This does not currently affect 3255 01:27:03,998 --> 01:27:05,598 the filing that you're making. 3256 01:27:05,598 --> 01:27:07,465 So we will need to have a name 3257 01:27:07,465 --> 01:27:08,698 that matches your ID 3258 01:27:08,698 --> 01:27:10,232 when you verify your identity, 3259 01:27:10,232 --> 01:27:11,665 either before the notary 3260 01:27:11,665 --> 01:27:12,732 or before the online 3261 01:27:12,732 --> 01:27:14,099 verification process. 3262 01:27:14,099 --> 01:27:15,032 However, 3263 01:27:15,265 --> 01:27:17,132 you can still sign as you see fit. 3264 01:27:17,132 --> 01:27:18,199 You can introduce yourself 3265 01:27:18,199 --> 01:27:20,032 to your clients as you see fit. 3266 01:27:20,032 --> 01:27:21,366 As long as it doesn't indicate 3267 01:27:21,366 --> 01:27:23,199 that it's a completely different person 3268 01:27:23,199 --> 01:27:23,966 in a way that would 3269 01:27:23,966 --> 01:27:25,833 that would arouse our suspicions. 3270 01:27:26,833 --> 01:27:28,833 These kinds of things are fine. 3271 01:27:28,833 --> 01:27:29,133 But 3272 01:27:29,133 --> 01:27:30,300 but the information 3273 01:27:30,300 --> 01:27:32,067 contained in your USPTO.gov account, 3274 01:27:32,067 --> 01:27:33,767 it does have to be verified 3275 01:27:33,767 --> 01:27:36,401 so that we can confirm your identity. 3276 01:27:36,401 --> 01:27:37,234 -But it's not 3277 01:27:37,234 --> 01:27:39,068 pre-populating your filings. 3278 01:27:39,068 --> 01:27:40,568 -Right. Correspondence information 3279 01:27:40,568 --> 01:27:41,701 and your attorney information 3280 01:27:41,701 --> 01:27:42,901 in the TEAS filing 3281 01:27:42,901 --> 01:27:46,001 is as you enter it. -Right. -And 3282 01:27:46,001 --> 01:27:46,868 same with signatures. 3283 01:27:46,868 --> 01:27:47,535 The signature is 3284 01:27:47,535 --> 01:27:48,935 the signature that you enter. 3285 01:27:48,935 --> 01:27:50,935 And also 3286 01:27:51,435 --> 01:27:52,735 if you are a law clerk 3287 01:27:52,735 --> 01:27:53,635 or summer associate, 3288 01:27:53,635 --> 01:27:54,302 should you sign in 3289 01:27:54,302 --> 01:27:55,102 under the attorney role? 3290 01:27:55,102 --> 01:27:57,169 Please do not start your legal career 3291 01:27:57,169 --> 01:27:58,069 by getting an email 3292 01:27:58,069 --> 01:28:00,736 from Amy and/or OED. 3293 01:28:00,736 --> 01:28:01,903 If you are not an attorney, 3294 01:28:01,903 --> 01:28:04,103 please do not select the attorney role. 3295 01:28:04,103 --> 01:28:06,037 I believe in this case 3296 01:28:06,037 --> 01:28:07,803 the support staff role would suit you 3297 01:28:07,803 --> 01:28:10,037 as a non-practitioner assistant 3298 01:28:10,037 --> 01:28:11,370 who's being supervised by an attorney. 3299 01:28:18,271 --> 01:28:19,471 -Okay. 3300 01:28:20,638 --> 01:28:22,171 Where are we now? 3301 01:28:28,805 --> 01:28:29,405 You seeing. 3302 01:28:29,872 --> 01:28:30,605 Oh, it's 3:30. 3303 01:28:30,605 --> 01:28:32,906 -We are getting close to time here. 3304 01:28:32,906 --> 01:28:33,739 We have about two minutes 3305 01:28:33,739 --> 01:28:34,739 left in session. 3306 01:28:34,739 --> 01:28:36,273 So if there are any that we can do 3307 01:28:36,273 --> 01:28:36,939 quickly, sort of 3308 01:28:36,939 --> 01:28:38,573 like a rapid fire thing. 3309 01:28:38,573 --> 01:28:40,640 Otherwise we can, 3310 01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:41,773 we can make sure to try and answer 3311 01:28:41,773 --> 01:28:42,940 as many as we can 3312 01:28:42,940 --> 01:28:45,207 by posting things on the website. 3313 01:28:45,207 --> 01:28:45,340 -Yeah. 3314 01:28:45,373 --> 01:28:47,940 "Is ID verification one time or annual?" 3315 01:28:48,140 --> 01:28:49,507 At this time it's one time. 3316 01:28:49,507 --> 01:28:51,107 And if for some reason 3317 01:28:51,107 --> 01:28:52,707 there's any issues with that, 3318 01:28:52,707 --> 01:28:53,574 then it may be something 3319 01:28:53,574 --> 01:28:54,641 we revisit. At this time 3320 01:28:54,641 --> 01:28:55,941 it is a one-time process. 3321 01:28:55,941 --> 01:28:56,641 We're not planning 3322 01:28:56,641 --> 01:28:58,141 on doing it annually. 3323 01:28:59,008 --> 01:29:00,141 -"If an attorney does not go 3324 01:29:00,141 --> 01:29:00,841 through the verification 3325 01:29:00,841 --> 01:29:01,708 process, what happens? 3326 01:29:01,708 --> 01:29:03,175 Can they still make filings?" No. 3327 01:29:04,308 --> 01:29:06,342 August 6th? No. 3328 01:29:06,342 --> 01:29:07,275 So you got to verify 3329 01:29:07,275 --> 01:29:08,075 if you want to keep 3330 01:29:08,075 --> 01:29:08,709 making filings. 3331 01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:09,242 If you don't have any 3332 01:29:09,242 --> 01:29:09,876 filings due right then, 3333 01:29:09,876 --> 01:29:10,642 you can wait 3334 01:29:10,642 --> 01:29:11,576 until you have a filing. 3335 01:29:11,576 --> 01:29:12,743 But that might not be, 3336 01:29:12,743 --> 01:29:13,043 you know, 3337 01:29:13,043 --> 01:29:15,376 you don't want to miss any deadlines. 3338 01:29:16,176 --> 01:29:17,410 -"I use two email addresses 3339 01:29:17,410 --> 01:29:19,776 for filing: one for firm where I'm of counsel 3340 01:29:19,776 --> 01:29:21,510 and another for my own firm." 3341 01:29:21,510 --> 01:29:22,543 So you're verifying 3342 01:29:22,543 --> 01:29:23,977 your USPTO.gov account 3343 01:29:23,977 --> 01:29:25,944 that governs your access to TEAS. Again, 3344 01:29:25,944 --> 01:29:28,111 you can still use the correspondence 3345 01:29:28,111 --> 01:29:29,877 and email information of your choosing 3346 01:29:29,877 --> 01:29:31,411 on the filings that you're making. 3347 01:29:31,411 --> 01:29:32,778 However, when you log in, 3348 01:29:32,778 --> 01:29:33,778 we do need to identify 3349 01:29:33,778 --> 01:29:35,045 one particular person 3350 01:29:35,045 --> 01:29:38,011 and you can only verify one account. 3351 01:29:38,711 --> 01:29:39,778 -I like this question. 3352 01:29:39,778 --> 01:29:41,145 "Does USPTO recommend that 3353 01:29:41,145 --> 01:29:42,545 a trademark owner open an account 3354 01:29:42,545 --> 01:29:43,912 even if all filings, including 3355 01:29:43,912 --> 01:29:44,779 verifications, will be 3356 01:29:44,779 --> 01:29:45,812 made by an attorney?" 3357 01:29:46,779 --> 01:29:48,012 You don't have to, 3358 01:29:48,012 --> 01:29:49,112 but if you're going 3359 01:29:49,112 --> 01:29:50,046 to change attorneys, 3360 01:29:50,046 --> 01:29:52,413 if you want to withdraw the attorney, 3361 01:29:52,413 --> 01:29:55,613 withdraw representation, then, you know, 3362 01:29:55,613 --> 01:29:56,280 if you want, if you're going 3363 01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:57,380 to switch counsel midstream, 3364 01:29:57,380 --> 01:29:58,413 you might want to be able 3365 01:29:58,413 --> 01:29:59,713 to have your own account 3366 01:29:59,713 --> 01:30:01,180 so that if there's a gap 3367 01:30:01,180 --> 01:30:02,580 in your representation 3368 01:30:02,580 --> 01:30:04,480 by an attorney, that you don't miss 3369 01:30:04,480 --> 01:30:05,781 any filing deadlines. 3370 01:30:05,781 --> 01:30:07,181 And then you have the ability 3371 01:30:07,181 --> 01:30:09,348 to to file on your own pro se, 3372 01:30:09,381 --> 01:30:10,881 if you're not represented at that time. 3373 01:30:10,881 --> 01:30:12,248 But that would be the only situation 3374 01:30:12,248 --> 01:30:15,348 where you would need to have your own. 3375 01:30:15,348 --> 01:30:17,515 And so it might be nice to have, 3376 01:30:17,515 --> 01:30:19,982 but not not necessary. 3377 01:30:21,882 --> 01:30:24,082 -"Does this also apply to TTAB filings?" 3378 01:30:24,982 --> 01:30:26,449 Not at this moment. 3379 01:30:26,449 --> 01:30:27,783 We are always considering ways 3380 01:30:27,783 --> 01:30:29,149 to streamline our processes 3381 01:30:29,149 --> 01:30:30,283 and work across business 3382 01:30:30,283 --> 01:30:31,583 units, but not at this time. 3383 01:30:35,883 --> 01:30:37,550 "Can attorney support staff be verified 3384 01:30:37,550 --> 01:30:38,950 before the attorney has been verified?" 3385 01:30:38,950 --> 01:30:40,650 No. Attorney support staff 3386 01:30:40,650 --> 01:30:41,484 must be verified 3387 01:30:41,484 --> 01:30:43,651 by a verified attorney. 3388 01:30:44,451 --> 01:30:45,184 Must be sponsored 3389 01:30:45,184 --> 01:30:46,784 by a verified attorney. 3390 01:30:50,985 --> 01:30:53,051 -Michael raised something about offshore 3391 01:30:53,051 --> 01:30:55,385 screen sharing. I don't know. 3392 01:30:55,385 --> 01:30:56,752 I got to figure that one out. 3393 01:30:56,752 --> 01:30:58,085 That's a new fact pattern for me. 3394 01:30:58,085 --> 01:30:59,685 So let me look into that. 3395 01:30:59,685 --> 01:31:00,485 Thank you for bringing that 3396 01:31:00,485 --> 01:31:01,919 to our attention now. 3397 01:31:03,686 --> 01:31:04,686 Credit profile. 3398 01:31:04,686 --> 01:31:07,119 Matt, quickly, see that one? 3399 01:31:07,819 --> 01:31:09,920 -Credit profile is not optional 3400 01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:11,153 in the self-service process. 3401 01:31:11,153 --> 01:31:12,620 They will, it will try to do it 3402 01:31:12,620 --> 01:31:13,420 and it relies on it. 3403 01:31:13,420 --> 01:31:13,687 However, it 3404 01:31:14,387 --> 01:31:16,587 is not required for the 3405 01:31:16,587 --> 01:31:17,587 in-person video chat, 3406 01:31:17,587 --> 01:31:18,320 but they may require 3407 01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:19,720 additional verification. 3408 01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:20,187 There are some people 3409 01:31:20,187 --> 01:31:21,621 who won't have credit profiles 3410 01:31:21,621 --> 01:31:22,687 or have it frozen, 3411 01:31:22,687 --> 01:31:23,487 and we do not recommend 3412 01:31:23,487 --> 01:31:24,188 that you unfreeze it 3413 01:31:24,188 --> 01:31:25,421 just for this process. 3414 01:31:25,421 --> 01:31:26,754 So there is a way to get through it 3415 01:31:26,754 --> 01:31:27,988 if you have a freeze on your credit 3416 01:31:27,988 --> 01:31:30,321 or an incomplete or no credit profile. 3417 01:31:30,655 --> 01:31:33,022 But that has to be going through the 3418 01:31:33,588 --> 01:31:34,555 video chat session. 3419 01:31:34,555 --> 01:31:35,789 Either you're routed through it 3420 01:31:35,789 --> 01:31:36,622 through self-service, 3421 01:31:36,622 --> 01:31:38,422 or you choose video chat upfront. 3422 01:31:41,689 --> 01:31:42,656 -"Can an owner who's also a 3423 01:31:42,656 --> 01:31:43,956 corporate officer become verified? 3424 01:31:43,956 --> 01:31:45,223 And would that be the owner role?" 3425 01:31:45,223 --> 01:31:48,223 Yeah. Yep. 3426 01:31:48,856 --> 01:31:50,057 "Can there be more than one 3427 01:31:50,057 --> 01:31:51,490 ID-verified owner for one company 3428 01:31:51,490 --> 01:31:54,057 with multiple trademarks?" Yes. 3429 01:31:54,057 --> 01:31:55,224 -Verification is for people, 3430 01:31:55,224 --> 01:31:55,957 not entities. 3431 01:31:55,957 --> 01:31:58,091 So no corporate entities. 3432 01:31:58,457 --> 01:32:00,491 You can't verify those. Individuals, 3433 01:32:00,557 --> 01:32:02,291 please identify. 3434 01:32:02,791 --> 01:32:03,924 -"Did the access rules impact 3435 01:32:03,924 --> 01:32:05,325 payment of maintenance 3436 01:32:05,325 --> 01:32:07,891 and renewal fees?" 3437 01:32:08,692 --> 01:32:10,692 So was that if you were 3438 01:32:10,758 --> 01:32:12,625 to pay a fee, don't you need a form? 3439 01:32:12,625 --> 01:32:13,725 And if there's a form, 3440 01:32:13,725 --> 01:32:14,559 then you needed a 3441 01:32:14,559 --> 01:32:16,826 verified account, right? 3442 01:32:19,292 --> 01:32:20,293 And then. 3443 01:32:20,426 --> 01:32:21,626 Yeah, right. Okay. 3444 01:32:21,626 --> 01:32:22,593 We'll have to think about that one. 3445 01:32:22,593 --> 01:32:24,460 -Yeah. Payment of fees. 3446 01:32:24,460 --> 01:32:25,760 I verify for the IRS 3447 01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:27,760 or some other agency, 3448 01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:28,293 yes. 3449 01:32:28,293 --> 01:32:29,860 Actually, about 30% 3450 01:32:29,860 --> 01:32:31,394 of our verifications 3451 01:32:31,394 --> 01:32:32,527 are people who are coming in 3452 01:32:32,527 --> 01:32:33,494 who have already been verified 3453 01:32:33,494 --> 01:32:35,261 through another agency, 3454 01:32:35,261 --> 01:32:37,794 typically VA or IRS. So, yes. 3455 01:32:39,261 --> 01:32:40,328 It's portable. 3456 01:32:42,995 --> 01:32:43,328 -All right. 3457 01:32:43,328 --> 01:32:45,828 We're at 3:32. 3458 01:32:46,128 --> 01:32:48,028 If you have further questions, 3459 01:32:48,028 --> 01:32:49,562 where did we want them to go, Jason? 3460 01:32:49,562 --> 01:32:51,229 Did we want them to go to TEAS@uspto.gov 3461 01:32:51,229 --> 01:32:52,995 or to TMfeedback? 3462 01:32:52,995 --> 01:32:55,029 -Um, TMfeedback. 3463 01:32:55,029 --> 01:32:57,162 TMfeedback@uspto.gov. 3464 01:32:57,162 --> 01:32:58,263 If you have additional questions 3465 01:32:58,263 --> 01:32:59,029 that that weren't 3466 01:32:59,029 --> 01:33:00,763 particularly answered today. 3467 01:33:00,763 --> 01:33:01,830 I see one right in front of me. 3468 01:33:01,830 --> 01:33:02,730 I can I can answer this 3469 01:33:02,730 --> 01:33:04,163 one really quickly. 3470 01:33:04,163 --> 01:33:05,030 "Is there a way to get 3471 01:33:05,030 --> 01:33:07,063 CLE credit for that, for this webinar?" 3472 01:33:07,063 --> 01:33:08,530 And the answer to that is, "No." 3473 01:33:08,530 --> 01:33:09,830 We have not asked 3474 01:33:09,830 --> 01:33:11,297 for CLE verification 3475 01:33:11,297 --> 01:33:12,531 for for this webinar, 3476 01:33:12,531 --> 01:33:14,831 so unfortunately it's not eligible. 3477 01:33:15,664 --> 01:33:16,731 So we're going to 3478 01:33:16,731 --> 01:33:17,864 close it down for today. 3479 01:33:17,864 --> 01:33:19,464 So sorry about that. 3480 01:33:19,464 --> 01:33:20,065 If we were unable 3481 01:33:20,065 --> 01:33:21,665 to get to your question by, 3482 01:33:21,665 --> 01:33:23,465 by all means, if you still have a question 3483 01:33:23,465 --> 01:33:24,965 that we did not answer today, 3484 01:33:24,965 --> 01:33:26,065 shoot an email to 3485 01:33:26,065 --> 01:33:28,332 TMfeedback@uspto.gov. 3486 01:33:28,332 --> 01:33:30,065 We'll do our best to answer it. 3487 01:33:30,065 --> 01:33:31,032 And as we've already said, 3488 01:33:32,032 --> 01:33:34,032 if there are topics that we 3489 01:33:34,032 --> 01:33:34,766 need to post about, 3490 01:33:34,766 --> 01:33:35,866 we're going to be posting about those 3491 01:33:35,866 --> 01:33:37,299 just to make sure that we've clarified 3492 01:33:37,299 --> 01:33:39,000 everything that we possibly can. 3493 01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:39,866 So thank you very much 3494 01:33:39,866 --> 01:33:40,733 for being with us today 3495 01:33:40,733 --> 01:33:42,400 and asking such great questions. 3496 01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:44,500 This is clearly a complex topic, 3497 01:33:45,100 --> 01:33:46,334 you know, and there are, as Amy said, 3498 01:33:46,334 --> 01:33:46,800 there are lots of 3499 01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:47,734 different fact patterns 3500 01:33:47,734 --> 01:33:48,534 that are at play here 3501 01:33:48,534 --> 01:33:49,267 because everybody has 3502 01:33:49,267 --> 01:33:51,034 a different situation. So we get it. 3503 01:33:51,034 --> 01:33:53,734 We understand that you may be having 3504 01:33:53,734 --> 01:33:55,234 a little bit of difficulty 3505 01:33:55,234 --> 01:33:56,401 with it, maybe trying 3506 01:33:56,401 --> 01:33:57,335 to work your way through it. 3507 01:33:57,335 --> 01:33:59,701 And that is okay because we all are. 3508 01:33:59,701 --> 01:34:01,002 So just remember 3509 01:34:01,002 --> 01:34:02,168 that the verification process 3510 01:34:02,168 --> 01:34:04,202 is intended to help protect you 3511 01:34:04,602 --> 01:34:05,802 as a trademark owner 3512 01:34:05,802 --> 01:34:07,335 or as a practitioner. 3513 01:34:07,335 --> 01:34:08,469 It's also meant to protect 3514 01:34:08,469 --> 01:34:09,736 the trademark register as well. 3515 01:34:09,736 --> 01:34:10,702 So it's not about trying 3516 01:34:10,702 --> 01:34:11,836 to make things more difficult, 3517 01:34:11,836 --> 01:34:13,336 it's just trying to 3518 01:34:13,336 --> 01:34:15,803 make things more secure for everyone. 3519 01:34:16,303 --> 01:34:17,203 So just a quick reminder, 3520 01:34:17,203 --> 01:34:18,936 you might have already received it, 3521 01:34:18,936 --> 01:34:20,537 an email from Eventbrite. 3522 01:34:20,537 --> 01:34:21,170 It probably went out 3523 01:34:21,170 --> 01:34:22,570 a couple of minutes ago. 3524 01:34:22,570 --> 01:34:23,270 It's going to have a link 3525 01:34:23,270 --> 01:34:24,770 to the slide deck. 3526 01:34:24,770 --> 01:34:25,804 So if you want to look 3527 01:34:25,804 --> 01:34:26,737 through today's slides, 3528 01:34:26,737 --> 01:34:27,804 you can download them 3529 01:34:27,804 --> 01:34:29,071 by just opening up that email, 3530 01:34:29,071 --> 01:34:30,004 clicking on the link. 3531 01:34:30,004 --> 01:34:31,904 It'll take you to a downloadable 3532 01:34:31,904 --> 01:34:33,571 version of the of the slides. 3533 01:34:33,571 --> 01:34:33,971 Also in 3534 01:34:33,971 --> 01:34:35,838 there is going to be a survey link. 3535 01:34:35,838 --> 01:34:37,671 So again, it's a pretty quick survey. 3536 01:34:37,671 --> 01:34:38,338 Should only take you 3537 01:34:38,338 --> 01:34:39,205 a couple of minutes 3538 01:34:39,205 --> 01:34:40,872 and we would encourage you 3539 01:34:40,872 --> 01:34:41,472 to fill it out. 3540 01:34:41,472 --> 01:34:43,839 We do love to hear what you think 3541 01:34:43,839 --> 01:34:44,805 and so we can hopefully 3542 01:34:44,805 --> 01:34:45,472 respond to those 3543 01:34:45,472 --> 01:34:47,272 and so we can always try and do better 3544 01:34:47,272 --> 01:34:48,206 next time. 3545 01:34:48,206 --> 01:34:49,606 So thank you very much again 3546 01:34:49,606 --> 01:34:50,973 for being with us today. 3547 01:34:50,973 --> 01:34:52,539 Take care and we'll talk to you soon. 3548 01:34:52,539 --> 01:34:52,839 Bye.