1 00:00:02,033 --> 00:00:03,800 Hello, everyone, everyone. Thank you so much 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,566 for joining us today for another of our trademark webinars. 3 00:00:07,966 --> 00:00:10,033 We're going to get started in just a couple of minutes. 4 00:00:10,033 --> 00:00:14,233 But as we always do, we're going to begin with a couple of housekeeping tips 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,533 to make sure that everyone is on the same page before we get going. 6 00:00:19,233 --> 00:00:21,400 So I know it's going to - it's a question that's going to be asked 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,166 because someone's going to ask it because everybody does it 8 00:00:23,166 --> 00:00:25,166 every single webinar: is this being recorded? 9 00:00:25,166 --> 00:00:28,333 And the answer is yes. This session is being recorded. 10 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:32,266 It will be posted to the USPTO web site within about three to four weeks. 11 00:00:32,333 --> 00:00:34,666 We try to turn it around as quickly as possible. 12 00:00:34,666 --> 00:00:38,600 So you will have access to it in three weeks to a month, somewhere around there. 13 00:00:39,166 --> 00:00:41,333 The slides have already been made available to you, 14 00:00:41,666 --> 00:00:44,933 but if you didn't get a chance to download those, don't worry. 15 00:00:45,100 --> 00:00:48,066 They'll be available after the presentation as well. 16 00:00:48,833 --> 00:00:50,266 The same thing is true with captioning. 17 00:00:50,266 --> 00:00:51,933 If you happen to need captioning 18 00:00:51,933 --> 00:00:55,400 today, that is available as it is for all of our USPTO events. 19 00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:58,566 And the way that you access captioning on Livestream is 20 00:00:58,566 --> 00:01:01,800 you go up into the top right hand corner of the Livestream window. 21 00:01:02,066 --> 00:01:06,133 And there you'll see a couple of icons, one of which is the event's "Post" tab. 22 00:01:06,633 --> 00:01:07,933 And if you click on that, 23 00:01:07,933 --> 00:01:08,600 it looks kind of like 24 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,866 a little filing cabinet with a little triangular play symbol on it. 25 00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:15,500 If you click on that, you're going to - it'll open up and show you various posts. 26 00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:18,133 There you'll see a link to the captioning that is available. 27 00:01:18,233 --> 00:01:22,466 You'll also see the email addresses that you might want to use today. 28 00:01:22,866 --> 00:01:25,866 One of them is TMFeedback@uspto.gov. 29 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,033 That is the way that you contact us if you have a question 30 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,500 that you want to ask. 31 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,200 I know that the chat is currently available in Livestream, 32 00:01:34,466 --> 00:01:36,800 but it's going to go away in about 10 to 15 minutes. 33 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,100 And the chat is really only there right now for you 34 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:42,666 to let us know if you're having any audio issues. 35 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:46,066 So Amy does not have access to the Livestream chat. 36 00:01:46,066 --> 00:01:48,200 So if you ask her a question through Livestream chat, 37 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,900 she is not going to see it. She's not going to be able to answer it. 38 00:01:51,066 --> 00:01:54,433 So the way that you contact us and let Amy know that you have a question 39 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,100 is to email TMFeedback@uspto.gov. 40 00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:01,166 And you can always access that email address and see it 41 00:02:01,566 --> 00:02:04,533 throughout the presentation today by clicking on that "Post" tab. 42 00:02:04,966 --> 00:02:08,600 Now, the great thing about Livestream is that it is kind of like a little DVR. 43 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,100 So if you have to pause and step away for a minute, you can do that. 44 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:14,300 You can pause, you can fast forward, you can rewind. 45 00:02:14,433 --> 00:02:18,000 But just keep in mind that when the session ends at 4:30 p.m. 46 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,300 Eastern, that means that the feed is over. 47 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:23,933 So you won't be able to be able to hang out and and watch 48 00:02:23,933 --> 00:02:25,866 after that time period. 49 00:02:25,866 --> 00:02:30,066 So if you have any technical issues after the chat goes away on Livestream, 50 00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:33,266 you can always email VirtualEvents@USPTO.gov. 51 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:36,933 And we have a really great tech team here, and they'll be able to 52 00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:39,866 hopefully troubleshoot any audio issues that you might have. 53 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,066 All right. Well, we are going to get started. 54 00:02:43,066 --> 00:02:46,333 So allow me to introduce you to Amy Cotton. 55 00:02:46,433 --> 00:02:49,433 She's the Deputy Commissioner for Trademark Examination Policy. 56 00:02:49,666 --> 00:02:53,600 And in this role, she oversees the offices of Trademark Policy, Petitions, 57 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,433 and ID/Class, as well as the Trademark Assistance Center, 58 00:02:56,466 --> 00:02:58,500 the Office of Trademark Quality Review and Training, 59 00:02:58,666 --> 00:03:02,200 the Trademark Law Library, Customer Experience, and Trademark Outreach. 60 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,333 She joined the USPTO in 1998 as a trademark examining attorney 61 00:03:06,633 --> 00:03:10,333 and then moved to the Office of Policy and International Affairs in 2001, 62 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,833 where she served as senior counsel for trademarks 63 00:03:13,033 --> 00:03:17,600 since 2003, providing domestic and international policy advice to the USPTO 64 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,800 and the U.S. government 65 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,500 agencies and technical assistance to the global trademark offices. 66 00:03:23,133 --> 00:03:26,266 For nearly 20 years, Ms. Cotton has led the U.S. 67 00:03:26,266 --> 00:03:28,033 delegation to the World Intellectual Property 68 00:03:28,033 --> 00:03:31,033 Organization on trademark matters, including negotiations 69 00:03:31,033 --> 00:03:33,400 to conclude the Singapore Treaty on the Law of Trademarks 70 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,033 and the Geneva Act of the Lisbon Agreement for the International Registration 71 00:03:37,166 --> 00:03:40,066 of Appellations of Origin and Geographical Indications. 72 00:03:40,466 --> 00:03:44,000 Prior to joining the USPTO, Ms. Cotton served as external affairs counsel 73 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,966 at the American Intellectual Property Law Association. 74 00:03:47,533 --> 00:03:50,233 She's a member of the Virginia Bar and received her juris doctorate 75 00:03:50,233 --> 00:03:52,166 from Indiana University, Bloomington 76 00:03:52,166 --> 00:03:55,033 and her Bachelor of Arts from the University of Virginia. 77 00:03:55,033 --> 00:03:57,433 Ladies and gentlemen, this is Amy Cotton taking you through 78 00:03:57,433 --> 00:04:00,100 some trademark registration protection initiatives. 79 00:04:01,466 --> 00:04:03,666 -Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks, Jason. 80 00:04:03,933 --> 00:04:08,033 Um, well, I'm here to talk to you about one of the five initiatives 81 00:04:08,066 --> 00:04:10,733 of the trademarks organization within the USPTO. 82 00:04:11,066 --> 00:04:14,566 We certainly, as you know, are dealing with an enormous trademark 83 00:04:14,566 --> 00:04:17,866 application filing surge. That's our first priority. 84 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,166 We're dealing with the implementation of the Trademark Modernization Act. 85 00:04:21,733 --> 00:04:23,766 We're working on IT modernization. 86 00:04:23,766 --> 00:04:26,166 And, of course, we're also working on trade- 87 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,166 and evolving our organization to better deal with these waves 88 00:04:31,166 --> 00:04:34,300 of applications and all the different initiatives that we want to pursue. 89 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,733 But they're - our fifth initiative is register protection. 90 00:04:37,733 --> 00:04:40,300 It is become extremely important 91 00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:44,466 to make sure that we are protecting the integrity of the trademark register. 92 00:04:44,666 --> 00:04:48,000 And I wanted to take you through the work that we've been doing on that. 93 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,766 We've actually been working on this for over 10 years. 94 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,000 So if you go back to 2009 in In re Bose, 95 00:04:55,266 --> 00:04:58,300 that decision came out of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, 96 00:04:58,566 --> 00:05:01,100 it made it more difficult to prove that a false statement of 97 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:02,966 use should be considered fraud, if you recall. 98 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,233 A finding a fraud, of course, 99 00:05:05,233 --> 00:05:09,000 voids that tainted class in the application or the registration. 100 00:05:09,166 --> 00:05:11,300 But it really established a clear sanction, 101 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:14,433 and that's cancelation of the affected goods and services 102 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,900 in that class when you make a false claim of use in a maintenance submission. 103 00:05:18,366 --> 00:05:22,900 Now, looking back, we were concerned at that time in 2009 104 00:05:23,166 --> 00:05:26,800 that the impact of the case would be that we would see more false 105 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,933 claims of use and maintenance submissions and then in applications. 106 00:05:30,733 --> 00:05:34,666 So in 2010, the USPTO convened a roundtable 107 00:05:34,666 --> 00:05:38,500 in conjunction with George Washington University called The Future of the Use- 108 00:05:38,533 --> 00:05:40,400 Based Register and we wanted to see 109 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,033 if stakeholders shared our concern about the potential impact of that case. 110 00:05:44,366 --> 00:05:46,266 And they clearly did. 111 00:05:46,266 --> 00:05:50,100 So between the USPTO and the stakeholders, we came up with a variety 112 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:54,066 of different suggestions for changes that we could make to the system 113 00:05:54,066 --> 00:05:55,233 to increase the duty 114 00:05:55,233 --> 00:05:59,800 of care of our applicants and disincentivize inaccurate statements. 115 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,800 Now, stakeholders rightly indicated a significant concern 116 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,100 that changes to address, you know, bad faith 117 00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:10,633 behavior might make it harder for good faith filers to use the system. 118 00:06:10,966 --> 00:06:15,066 So we were slow and deliberate as we started poking around at this issue. 119 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:19,466 So 2012, we instituted a provision. 120 00:06:19,466 --> 00:06:22,766 We wanted to measure the volume of the inaccurate claims of use 121 00:06:23,166 --> 00:06:26,333 that we were seeing in Section 8 or 71 declaration filings. 122 00:06:26,866 --> 00:06:30,066 We established that Proof of Use Audit pilot program. 123 00:06:30,833 --> 00:06:33,700 Now, we made that program permanent in 2017. 124 00:06:34,033 --> 00:06:39,600 And that's the first of the events on our timeline and on the slides. 125 00:06:41,966 --> 00:06:44,266 Do we have the slides up? 126 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:51,066 Here we go. There we go. 127 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,100 So now, as you see on our timeline, 128 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:59,100 the Post-registration audit program was made made permanent in 2017, 129 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:03,033 but of course, our efforts dated back all the way to 2010 and 2012. 130 00:07:03,033 --> 00:07:05,266 But I couldn't fit that on the slides. 131 00:07:05,266 --> 00:07:08,800 Uh, the audit program had limited effect, 132 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:14,100 in my view, because we did not originally impose a sanction for filing false claims 133 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,833 of use other than just letting the goods and services go. 134 00:07:18,366 --> 00:07:20,633 A deletion at that point. Now, 135 00:07:21,833 --> 00:07:24,366 starting about 2018, 2019, 136 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:27,366 we started seeing an increase, not just in these false 137 00:07:27,366 --> 00:07:30,700 claims of use that prompted the audit program, but in other things. 138 00:07:31,133 --> 00:07:34,166 We started seeing filings that include fake names, 139 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,533 um, fake addresses, fake specimens of use, and suspicious attorney behavior. 140 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,433 So we were seeing behavior that appeared designed to circumvent our rules of 141 00:07:43,433 --> 00:07:46,300 practice, our rules of representation, professional conduct, 142 00:07:46,633 --> 00:07:48,733 and our website terms of use. 143 00:07:48,733 --> 00:07:52,366 So our slow and conservative start to protecting the register 144 00:07:52,366 --> 00:07:53,533 from false claims of use 145 00:07:53,533 --> 00:07:57,433 back in 2012, it needed to accelerate and expand to address 146 00:07:57,433 --> 00:08:00,900 these other types of behavior. And you see that acceleration in this timeline. 147 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,366 In 2019, USPTO increased the scrutiny of specimens of use. 148 00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:10,066 Uh, we also at that time stood up a special task force 149 00:08:10,066 --> 00:08:13,066 responsible for investigating improper behavior and scams. 150 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,533 2019, we implemented the U.S. 151 00:08:15,533 --> 00:08:18,700 Council rule. The rule that that is the practice of most other countries 152 00:08:19,266 --> 00:08:22,800 where we require foreign domiciliary is to be represented by a U.S. 153 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,366 licensed attorney. 154 00:08:24,366 --> 00:08:26,600 2019 also. We were busy in 2019. 155 00:08:26,766 --> 00:08:30,100 We implemented phase one of the USPTO.gov account 156 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:33,533 login requirements that allow us to better track filing behaviors. 157 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,566 But that all wasn't enough. 158 00:08:35,566 --> 00:08:39,066 Uh, the filing numbers were increasing and so too were suspicious filings. 159 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:43,500 So in 2020, we shifted to a more aggressive mindset. 160 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,066 We started thinking like a brand owner dealing with anticounterfeiters, 161 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:49,266 and we started focusing on sanctions. 162 00:08:49,266 --> 00:08:51,966 How can we sanction the behavior that we don't want to see? 163 00:08:52,866 --> 00:08:55,066 In 2012, I'm sorry, 2021, 164 00:08:55,466 --> 00:08:57,833 we implemented a deletion fee 165 00:08:57,833 --> 00:09:01,233 for any goods or services deleted in the context of an examination 166 00:09:01,233 --> 00:09:05,033 of the maintenance filing, including as to the audit proceedings. 167 00:09:05,466 --> 00:09:07,166 2021, we started issuing 168 00:09:07,166 --> 00:09:11,133 administrative sanctions against actors who are intentionally violating U.S. 169 00:09:11,133 --> 00:09:14,700 rules of practice, representation, or our our terms of use of our website. 170 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:18,566 And also in 2021, as you know, we're now preparing to implement 171 00:09:18,566 --> 00:09:20,600 the provisions of the Trademark Modernization Act, 172 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:22,066 which is, of course, the latest 173 00:09:22,066 --> 00:09:25,700 in a series of initiatives and tools that are all designed to increase 174 00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:29,633 the accuracy of submissions and the resulting integrity of the U.S. 175 00:09:29,633 --> 00:09:32,900 trademark register. But I'm going to tell you about each one of these initiatives. 176 00:09:35,033 --> 00:09:38,633 So, as I said, in 2012, 177 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:42,866 we implemented the Post-registration audit program, and it was to test 178 00:09:42,933 --> 00:09:45,366 the claims of use, the accuracy of the claims of use 179 00:09:45,366 --> 00:09:47,800 in a Section 8 or 71 declaration. 180 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,566 So as you know, registration may be audited if it meets two requirements, 181 00:09:52,066 --> 00:09:54,333 a Section 8 or 71 declaration is filed, 182 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:57,866 and the registration includes at least either one class with four 183 00:09:57,866 --> 00:10:01,300 or more goods or services or two classes with two or more goods and services. 184 00:10:01,733 --> 00:10:03,533 Now, as you know, the process is the office 185 00:10:03,533 --> 00:10:06,133 action will invite the registrant to provide proof of use 186 00:10:06,133 --> 00:10:08,366 for two additional goods and services for per class. 187 00:10:09,166 --> 00:10:12,900 If the registrant does not either provide proof of use for the queried goods 188 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:15,766 and services or delete those queried goods and services, 189 00:10:15,966 --> 00:10:18,633 then the examiner will issue a second action and request 190 00:10:18,766 --> 00:10:22,533 more proof of use on additional goods and services in that same class. 191 00:10:23,566 --> 00:10:25,033 If the registrant 192 00:10:25,033 --> 00:10:28,966 ends up having to delete the queried goods and services, the registrant must pay 193 00:10:28,966 --> 00:10:30,200 a deletion fee of $250 per class 194 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,900 in response to that office action. 195 00:10:33,533 --> 00:10:35,933 So this deletion fee, keep in mind, is a is a feature 196 00:10:35,933 --> 00:10:39,766 of both the audit program and regular post-registration examination. 197 00:10:39,933 --> 00:10:42,533 More generally, we introduced the fee in 2021. 198 00:10:42,833 --> 00:10:45,166 It is a sanction for a false claim of use. 199 00:10:45,766 --> 00:10:49,333 Any time you delete in the context of a maintenance examination, 200 00:10:49,566 --> 00:10:51,066 you will have to pay that fee. 201 00:10:51,066 --> 00:10:54,533 And if you fail to pay it, you could lose the entire registration, 202 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,100 not just the queried goods and services. 203 00:10:57,100 --> 00:10:58,933 How do you avoid the penalty? 204 00:10:58,933 --> 00:11:02,200 Keep your registration accurate as to those goods and services 205 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,166 for which the mark remains in use. 206 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,066 Now, why did we implement this deletion fee? 207 00:11:08,066 --> 00:11:12,533 Well, since 2017, we've issued 208 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,033 17,218 office actions. 209 00:11:15,666 --> 00:11:18,866 The deletion fee has remained - the deletion rate, sorry. 210 00:11:18,866 --> 00:11:21,933 The deletion rate has remained pretty steady since, uh, since 211 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,133 the inception of the program in 2012. really. 212 00:11:25,633 --> 00:11:28,100 We're right about 50% deletion rate. 213 00:11:28,966 --> 00:11:33,333 They're only really slight deviations amongst, over time. 214 00:11:33,666 --> 00:11:37,200 And between a Section 1(a) registrant and a 44 or 66 215 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,466 registrant, there's not much, much daylight between them. 216 00:11:41,366 --> 00:11:44,733 Uh, what's troubling to me though is that 82% 217 00:11:44,733 --> 00:11:46,500 of the registrants involved in these audits 218 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,966 who have been required to delete goods and services 219 00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,700 or have had their entire registrations, they had attorneys. 220 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,133 Attorneys were representing these registrants where deletion 221 00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:59,266 was occurring, 50% of the cases are deletions 222 00:11:59,566 --> 00:12:03,400 and 82% of the registrants were represented. 223 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,700 So these attorneys are responsible 224 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:06,933 for filing maintenance documents that claimed use 225 00:12:07,166 --> 00:12:10,333 that was not substantiated when queried in the audit program. 226 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,033 So perhaps maybe we've cleaned up the registrations that were audited, 227 00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:18,766 but the audit program alone was not incentivizing accuracy more broadly. 228 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,700 We hope that the deletion fee will. And I tell you, it's it's 229 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:26,700 a bit too early to tell whether it's changing maintenance filing behavior. 230 00:12:27,233 --> 00:12:29,900 It's going to take a while for those actions, a response 231 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:32,500 to office actions where we required the deletion fee to come in 232 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,533 to to see the behavior and see the effects. 233 00:12:35,933 --> 00:12:39,700 But anecdotally, our examiners are seeing more deletions at the filing 234 00:12:40,366 --> 00:12:43,533 of the Section 8s and 71s and slightly fewer 235 00:12:43,533 --> 00:12:46,566 deletions in the context of the examination of the declaration. 236 00:12:46,566 --> 00:12:50,000 So when we have more numbers to share on that, we certainly will do so. 237 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,233 Now, the audit program and 238 00:12:56,233 --> 00:12:59,200 the deletion fee, those are aimed at maintenance filings. 239 00:12:59,633 --> 00:13:03,800 In 2019, we wanted to increase the scrutiny in parallel 240 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,400 then with the claims of use in applications. 241 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,933 Now, one suggestion that we routinely hear when we - the issue of fake claims 242 00:13:12,933 --> 00:13:16,700 abuse comes up - is that we should just simply change our rules and require 243 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:20,633 one specimen of use for each good or services identified 244 00:13:20,833 --> 00:13:22,466 in the application, rather than just 245 00:13:22,466 --> 00:13:25,333 the existing rule, which requires one specimen for each class. 246 00:13:26,466 --> 00:13:29,600 Clearly, we did not implement that suggestion in the audit program 247 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,300 for maintenance filings. 248 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:33,133 It's a huge lift for everybody. 249 00:13:33,133 --> 00:13:35,933 It's a huge lift for applicants, attorneys, and examining attorneys. 250 00:13:36,533 --> 00:13:40,533 Now, the audit program solves this by randomly selecting filings for audit 251 00:13:40,533 --> 00:13:43,633 and then slowly ramping up the requirements for additional 252 00:13:43,633 --> 00:13:45,266 proof of use for multiple goods and services 253 00:13:45,266 --> 00:13:49,066 in the audited class if the registrant can't provide appropriate proof of use. 254 00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:52,000 So what's the analog in examination? 255 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,233 Well, uh, TMEP 904.01, perhaps? 256 00:13:55,433 --> 00:13:59,533 It's the disparate goods inquiry that's set out in 257 00:13:59,566 --> 00:14:01,600 TMEP 904.01. 258 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,166 So examining attorneys have the discretion to require additional specimens of use 259 00:14:06,166 --> 00:14:11,500 per class when the range of items is wide or contains unrelated articles. 260 00:14:12,133 --> 00:14:16,566 Now, we have heard calls, for instance, from the office of the Inspector General, 261 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,000 the Department of Commerce, in a recent report, that we should issue more guidance 262 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,766 that defines what we mean by a wide range of items or unrelated articles. 263 00:14:25,066 --> 00:14:28,433 And presumably the idea is that we should be encouraging examiners to use 264 00:14:28,633 --> 00:14:30,000 this discretion more. 265 00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:33,666 Now, we have to consider, though, that when we give the examining attorneys 266 00:14:33,666 --> 00:14:37,233 discretion to take an action, it certainly impinges on that discretion 267 00:14:37,233 --> 00:14:40,666 when we tightly prescribe the conditions under which they can exercise it. 268 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,200 Those conditions start making that look more mandatory, right? 269 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:47,600 And if the examiners were to start requiring 270 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,500 additional specimens for long IDs in all cases, 271 00:14:51,066 --> 00:14:54,066 all applicants will be impacted, not just the bad faith ones. 272 00:14:54,566 --> 00:14:59,566 So we're certainly trying to avoid impacting those good faith actors. 273 00:15:00,166 --> 00:15:03,600 And so we issued guidance in 2019 to establish a policy 274 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,966 that a fake, which is a digitally-altered, created, or mocked-up specimen, 275 00:15:07,533 --> 00:15:11,600 it creates an inference that the mark was not an actual use in commerce. 276 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,900 Now, while this might seem obvious, if there's a fake 277 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:18,133 specimen spec, then maybe it's probably not in use in commerce. 278 00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:21,466 But it was a significant policy shift for us 279 00:15:21,766 --> 00:15:27,133 because it allows then evidence of nonuse to be considered in examination. 280 00:15:29,133 --> 00:15:34,500 Um, while we had uh, let's see, let me go to the next one. While we had 281 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:38,400 examination guidance dating back to 2014 on digitally-created specimens, 282 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:41,666 it was more focused on making sure applicants provided us 283 00:15:41,666 --> 00:15:44,866 with the right kind of specimen, not whether they were trying to fool us. 284 00:15:46,533 --> 00:15:49,333 Our guidance emphasized requiring substitute specimens 285 00:15:49,333 --> 00:15:52,966 that were better showed the mark as it is in use in commerce, in situations 286 00:15:52,966 --> 00:15:55,833 where the original specimen appeared digitally-created or mocked-up. 287 00:15:56,700 --> 00:16:00,266 In 2018, 2019, we started seeing clearly fake images. 288 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,400 And because we were allowing substitute specimens 289 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,733 to overcome every specimen refusal, we started seeing better fakes. 290 00:16:07,533 --> 00:16:10,766 Our 2019 guidance told examiners to refuse registration 291 00:16:10,766 --> 00:16:12,400 when an image was clearly fake, 292 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,333 and that they should then follow up with a request for information to make 293 00:16:15,333 --> 00:16:17,733 the applicant prove that the mark was in actual use. 294 00:16:18,666 --> 00:16:20,066 In the 2019 version, 295 00:16:20,066 --> 00:16:24,433 we did not allow the applicant to respond to the refusal with substitute specimens 296 00:16:24,833 --> 00:16:26,100 or to amend to Section 1(b). 297 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:30,200 We forced applicants to respond to the requests for information, the RFI. 298 00:16:31,233 --> 00:16:33,866 Now, there was some backlash from both the stakeholders 299 00:16:33,866 --> 00:16:37,300 and examining attorneys that we were being too strict on good faith filers. 300 00:16:37,866 --> 00:16:39,400 So in 2020, 301 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,433 we issued a revised guide that allowed the applicants to respond to a refusal 302 00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:47,800 and an RFI with substitute specimens or amend to 1(b) 303 00:16:47,933 --> 00:16:51,700 without having to provide the proof of use in response to the RFI. 304 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,433 Now, the feedback we're getting now, 305 00:16:55,433 --> 00:16:56,633 for instance, from stakeholders 306 00:16:56,633 --> 00:16:59,900 and from the Office of the Inspector General again in that report, 307 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,500 is that even when the images don't appear fake on their face, 308 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:06,566 the examining attorney should nonetheless investigate 309 00:17:06,566 --> 00:17:09,533 whether the mark is in actual use in commerce by going to websites 310 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,233 and trying to figure out whether they can buy the products online. 311 00:17:13,833 --> 00:17:18,066 Now, technically, the examining attorneys have the discretion to investigate 312 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,766 if their Spidey senses are going off, based on the information in the record, 313 00:17:22,333 --> 00:17:23,666 but they're not required to do that. 314 00:17:23,666 --> 00:17:27,400 That would grind examination to a halt as examiners started going down 315 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,466 online rabbit holes trying to investigate whether a mark is in use or not 316 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,800 as to every goods or services in - good or service in the record. 317 00:17:38,466 --> 00:17:43,300 So to assist our examiners with collecting that evidence of nonuse, 318 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,200 because the examiners are going to have a hard time 319 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,766 trying to investigate nonuse in every case. 320 00:17:47,766 --> 00:17:50,633 So to assist that and get this evidence in front of the examiners, 321 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:53,733 we opened up the Letter of Protest program. 322 00:17:53,733 --> 00:17:56,166 It allows of third parties to submit evidence 323 00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:59,200 of nonuse for our consideration under limited circumstances. 324 00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:00,566 So as a reminder, 325 00:18:00,566 --> 00:18:04,433 going back to letters of protest, typically, third parties cannot intervene 326 00:18:04,433 --> 00:18:08,900 in someone else's trademark application without filing an opposition at the TTAB. 327 00:18:09,033 --> 00:18:11,200 The Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. 328 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,433 Now, the letter of protest procedure, which has been in place for a long time, 329 00:18:14,433 --> 00:18:18,966 allows third parties to send evidence to the USPTO regarding another's application. 330 00:18:19,566 --> 00:18:23,000 We review that evidence and we determine whether the evidence is relevant 331 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,266 to a ground of refusal. 332 00:18:24,266 --> 00:18:28,600 And if so, we will forward that evidence to the examining attorney. Not argument. 333 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:30,266 Evidence, right? 334 00:18:30,266 --> 00:18:33,833 This is a way that third parties can bring some evidence to our attention 335 00:18:34,033 --> 00:18:38,033 that we might otherwise have missed or we didn't have access to. 336 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:43,166 Now, because our examining attorneys were not historically issuing refusals for nonuse, 337 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,133 just a bad specimen refusal, 338 00:18:45,133 --> 00:18:48,500 we didn't allow for letters or protest to address nonuse issues, 339 00:18:48,966 --> 00:18:51,566 but that changed in 2019 when we opened 340 00:18:51,566 --> 00:18:54,233 that specimen protest mailbox, you might remember that, 341 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,666 and we allowed third parties to submit evidence of the same image 342 00:18:58,666 --> 00:19:01,400 in an application being used by third parties 343 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,300 in the marketplace without the trademark on it. 344 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,000 Same image, no trademark. 345 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,166 And suddenly that's appearing in our files. 346 00:19:08,166 --> 00:19:09,533 Also the same image appearing 347 00:19:09,533 --> 00:19:12,200 in multiple prior applications, all bearing different marks. 348 00:19:13,533 --> 00:19:16,466 Now, we took a conservative approach to the types of evidence 349 00:19:16,466 --> 00:19:19,400 that could be submitted so that the letter of protest procedure 350 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,666 didn't become a proxy for a board proceeding. 351 00:19:22,733 --> 00:19:24,433 In late 2020, 352 00:19:24,433 --> 00:19:27,166 we published a rule change that essentially codified 353 00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:30,700 the letter of protest proceedings into regulations in anticipation, 354 00:19:31,033 --> 00:19:35,466 in anticipation of the implementation of the Trademark Modernization Act. 355 00:19:36,233 --> 00:19:37,666 The TMA allowed us to begin 356 00:19:37,666 --> 00:19:40,500 charging a fifty dollar fee for protests to recover costs. 357 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,866 We were getting more and more protests. 358 00:19:41,866 --> 00:19:45,600 We needed we needed to cover our costs because it's work to to review these. 359 00:19:46,266 --> 00:19:50,266 But that meant we actually had to close the free specimen protest mailbox 360 00:19:50,466 --> 00:19:55,366 and move that process into the existing letter of protest process. So we did that. 361 00:19:55,666 --> 00:19:58,266 And as we did that, we also expanded the evidence 362 00:19:58,266 --> 00:20:00,866 that we'll consider in a letter of protest related to specimens. 363 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,300 Because examiners are looking at evidence of nonuse, 364 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,933 now, it's appropriate that third party protesters 365 00:20:08,366 --> 00:20:11,233 can also submit that evidence of nonuse for our consideration. 366 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:14,366 So we will now consider 367 00:20:14,366 --> 00:20:17,600 evidence that a specimen was digitally-altered or created 368 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,900 or evidence that demonstrates that a specimen was not 369 00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:23,200 in use on or prior to the date it was submitted. 370 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:28,433 What we will not take is evidence that you can't find the product on the internet 371 00:20:29,066 --> 00:20:32,833 unless you have other evidence of nonuse. Such evidence standing alone 372 00:20:32,833 --> 00:20:35,866 doesn't tell us whether the goods bearing the mark were offered for sale 373 00:20:35,866 --> 00:20:38,833 at the time the applicant averred that it was offered for sale. 374 00:20:39,333 --> 00:20:42,300 Nor does it tell us whether the mark is in use, particularly if 375 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,300 the goods and services are not ones that are sold online typically. 376 00:20:46,633 --> 00:20:48,300 So those who want to learn 377 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:51,300 more about our letter of protest proceeding procedures, 378 00:20:51,366 --> 00:20:53,066 I'd encourage you to go to our website. 379 00:20:53,066 --> 00:20:55,033 I'll have a link at the end of the slides here. 380 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,066 Go to the page called "Letters of protest practice tips" 381 00:20:59,066 --> 00:21:02,233 and that will provide information that I'm sharing with you today 382 00:21:02,433 --> 00:21:05,566 and generally, how the letter of protest process works. 383 00:21:06,666 --> 00:21:10,933 Now, we're still looking at ways to improve specimen examination, but 384 00:21:10,933 --> 00:21:14,166 it doesn't seem to us like more guidance is going to be a silver bullet here. 385 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,200 So we're seeking more options that might not require 386 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,533 so much time spent on investigation by our examining attorneys, 387 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:25,000 but where that investigation could be done by others or automated, 388 00:21:25,166 --> 00:21:26,500 that sort of thing. 389 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:30,833 Our primary focus, though, right now, is on bad faith submissions, including 390 00:21:30,833 --> 00:21:35,400 bad specimens, is our new and evolving administrative sanction processes, 391 00:21:35,633 --> 00:21:39,666 which pull cases out of examination for review and investigation. 392 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:41,400 So let me tell you a little bit about that. 393 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:44,900 Now, any time a new 394 00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:49,800 filing trend evolves, we arm our 700 examining attorneys 395 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,633 with the legal policy guidance that they need to handle that trend. 396 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,700 For years, they have been on the front line 397 00:21:56,366 --> 00:21:59,233 of their battle against individual bad faith actors. 398 00:21:59,733 --> 00:22:03,000 But when it comes to these larger schemes and scams 399 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,033 that we're seeing in all kinds of trademark filings, individual 400 00:22:07,033 --> 00:22:10,833 examining attorneys are not in a position to be able to spot a filing trend 401 00:22:10,833 --> 00:22:15,033 or respond with a coordinated action across thousands of affected applications. 402 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,033 For example, fake specimens often come in large waves 403 00:22:19,033 --> 00:22:22,500 of virtually identical specimens in applications listing different owners. 404 00:22:23,366 --> 00:22:25,000 Because the owners differ, 405 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,133 they aren't grouped as copendings or companion applications 406 00:22:28,133 --> 00:22:30,966 when they are assigned for examination to to our examiners. 407 00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:35,333 And it makes it harder to detect the waves and handle those consistently. 408 00:22:35,966 --> 00:22:39,900 So to do to address that, in 2019, we created the special task force 409 00:22:40,166 --> 00:22:43,500 on improper activities. It's led by attorneys 410 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:46,533 in Trademark Operations and Trademark Examination Policy. 411 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,633 But they coordinate investigations with personnel from throughout the USPTO. 412 00:22:51,333 --> 00:22:53,066 Now, what are they investigating? 413 00:22:53,066 --> 00:22:55,466 A variety of things: false claims of use, 414 00:22:55,466 --> 00:22:58,466 applicants or registrants that cannot establish use in commerce, 415 00:22:59,366 --> 00:23:02,866 filing firms or applicants that submit fake or doctored specimens. 416 00:23:03,933 --> 00:23:04,800 They're looking at U.S. 417 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,633 counsel circumvention, applications featuring false attorney names 418 00:23:08,966 --> 00:23:10,633 or false U.S. addresses. 419 00:23:10,633 --> 00:23:12,400 Submissions featuring U.S. 420 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,866 attorney names that are real, 421 00:23:14,866 --> 00:23:16,966 but where the attorney is actually unaware 422 00:23:16,966 --> 00:23:20,000 that they have shown up in a file, that they've appeared in a file. 423 00:23:20,033 --> 00:23:22,033 They don't have a representation agreement with the client. 424 00:23:22,966 --> 00:23:25,166 We also are investigating offers to rent U.S. 425 00:23:25,166 --> 00:23:27,100 attorneys' bar credentials. 426 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:29,200 We're looking into unauthorized practice of law. 427 00:23:29,233 --> 00:23:32,500 Non-attorney filing firms that provide advice or appear in submissions. 428 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,600 We are looking at filing firms that forge signatures on declarations or 429 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,866 applications. We're looking at trafficking in applications or registrations. 430 00:23:41,333 --> 00:23:43,866 Um, we've seen highjacking through unauthorized 431 00:23:43,866 --> 00:23:46,000 changes of correspondence address in our records. 432 00:23:46,733 --> 00:23:50,133 We see brands that are highjacked through unauthorized applications, 433 00:23:50,133 --> 00:23:53,266 using accurate company information, but with a different 434 00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:56,966 or unauthorized correspondence address snuck into that, to the application. 435 00:23:57,633 --> 00:24:00,466 And we've seen applicant stockpiling registrations for use on 436 00:24:00,833 --> 00:24:02,600 e-commerce platform storefronts. 437 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,933 We're also looking into scam solicitations. 438 00:24:04,933 --> 00:24:07,366 These are those that are solicitations that are meant to appear 439 00:24:07,533 --> 00:24:09,766 as if they originate from the USPTO. 440 00:24:09,766 --> 00:24:11,233 They use our public information. 441 00:24:11,233 --> 00:24:14,133 Then they dupe applicants or registrants into paying for services 442 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:16,966 that they don't need or that they never receive. 443 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,333 Investigation process. 444 00:24:22,566 --> 00:24:24,833 The special task force 445 00:24:24,833 --> 00:24:28,533 takes in reports of suspicious filings from a variety of sources. 446 00:24:29,166 --> 00:24:32,533 We've got examining attorneys that are reporting possible fraudulent 447 00:24:32,533 --> 00:24:34,900 activity and applications through an internal mailbox. 448 00:24:35,633 --> 00:24:37,800 We've got our data analytics staff. 449 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,366 They're looking for suspicious filing trends in the data. 450 00:24:41,166 --> 00:24:43,433 Law enforcement investigating criminal behavior. 451 00:24:43,433 --> 00:24:45,400 They'll they'll reach out to us. 452 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,266 We also see the media reports that you see, calling out 453 00:24:48,266 --> 00:24:51,566 possible fraudulent behavior that affects U.S. applicants. 454 00:24:52,133 --> 00:24:53,833 We get customer complaints 455 00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:56,166 as they come through the Trademark Assistance Center, TAC. 456 00:24:56,833 --> 00:25:00,466 We see stuff coming in to TMScams@uspto.gov 457 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,900 or TMpolicy@uspto.gov mailboxes. 458 00:25:04,566 --> 00:25:05,300 We see stuff in the 459 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:08,700 petitions to the Director and we see stuff in letters of protest. 460 00:25:09,133 --> 00:25:12,700 So when we get those reports or when we discover things, we'll launch 461 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:15,766 an investigation into those allegations of fraudulent activity. 462 00:25:16,033 --> 00:25:19,533 And we determine whether what the nature of the misconduct is 463 00:25:19,866 --> 00:25:21,533 and any - look for any available 464 00:25:21,533 --> 00:25:24,733 circumstantial evidence indicating the intent of the applicant. 465 00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:27,833 Now, some applicants simply misunderstand U.S. 466 00:25:27,833 --> 00:25:31,133 rules, and those cases can be handled by examining attorneys 467 00:25:31,133 --> 00:25:32,033 through office actions. 468 00:25:33,066 --> 00:25:33,900 Other applicants or 469 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:38,300 representatives, upon investigation, appear to be trying to circumvent U.S. 470 00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:40,433 rules or abuse our electronic systems. 471 00:25:41,066 --> 00:25:44,866 Now, those folks might be subject to administrative or criminal sanctions. 472 00:25:45,666 --> 00:25:48,500 Now, there are three main avenues 473 00:25:49,166 --> 00:25:51,866 where we can look at sanctions against actors 474 00:25:52,366 --> 00:25:54,433 after we go through an investigation. 475 00:25:54,833 --> 00:25:58,933 So we have the Commissioner for Trademarks' authority to sanction violators of U.S. 476 00:25:58,933 --> 00:26:00,200 rules of practice, 477 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,566 the Office of Enrollment and Discipline's authority to sanction violators of U.S. 478 00:26:04,666 --> 00:26:06,833 rules of professional conduct, 479 00:26:06,833 --> 00:26:11,333 and we see law enforcement's authority to pursue criminal prosecution 480 00:26:11,333 --> 00:26:15,366 of those violating criminal laws or who show up in U.S. 481 00:26:15,366 --> 00:26:17,666 applications or other submissions. 482 00:26:17,666 --> 00:26:20,333 Now, the one that the special task force 483 00:26:21,266 --> 00:26:25,533 has the most control over is the authority of the Commissioner for Trademarks. 484 00:26:26,233 --> 00:26:30,833 The authority is to manage and direct all aspects of the activities of the USPTO 485 00:26:31,266 --> 00:26:33,933 that affect the administration of trademark operations. 486 00:26:34,466 --> 00:26:37,800 So this includes the authority to impose sanctions on parties 487 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,766 who file submissions and trademark matters in violation of USPTO rules of 488 00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:45,166 practice, professional conduct, or terms of use of our website. 489 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:51,066 As part of our investigation process, though, the special task force will also 490 00:26:51,066 --> 00:26:55,433 collect evidence and refer appropriate cases to OED or to law enforcement. 491 00:26:59,866 --> 00:27:02,000 So when we discover a scheme, 492 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,200 we identify affected 493 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,900 applications and sequester unassigned applications into holding dockets, 494 00:27:07,533 --> 00:27:10,066 we direct the examining attorneys to suspend action 495 00:27:10,066 --> 00:27:13,233 on those those applications, and then we start collecting 496 00:27:13,233 --> 00:27:16,433 evidence and establish what rules have been violated 497 00:27:16,766 --> 00:27:20,133 or we think have been violated. Depending on the nature of those violations, 498 00:27:20,466 --> 00:27:22,700 we have two options for moving forward. 499 00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:25,900 We can direct the examining attorneys to issue the appropriate refusals 500 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,466 or request information, or we can issue a 501 00:27:29,466 --> 00:27:32,533 show-cause order that directs the offending party 502 00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:35,733 to explain the conduct that appears to violate USPTO rules. 503 00:27:36,433 --> 00:27:40,500 It will identify potential sanctions and it will set a deadline for response. 504 00:27:41,433 --> 00:27:45,133 Now, after we evaluate the response, if we get one, we can 505 00:27:45,133 --> 00:27:47,366 then move to an order for sanctions. 506 00:27:48,266 --> 00:27:50,100 The sanctions include 507 00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:53,666 not considering or giving any weight to the affected submission, 508 00:27:54,866 --> 00:27:56,200 terminating the proceeding 509 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,866 before the USPTO, including abandoning the application, 510 00:27:59,833 --> 00:28:02,433 precluding parties from filing on behalf of themselves 511 00:28:02,433 --> 00:28:05,200 or others in any trademark matter before the USPTO, 512 00:28:06,066 --> 00:28:10,800 referring practitioners to OED and terminating affected 513 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:16,200 USPTO.gov accounts through which all electronic forms are filed. 514 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,166 Now if a representative, an attorney, is implicated 515 00:28:20,166 --> 00:28:23,900 in the applications featuring the rule violations, Trademarks will refer 516 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,033 to OED for investigation and possible discipline. 517 00:28:27,633 --> 00:28:30,566 Now, OED may investigate suspected violations of the rules 518 00:28:30,566 --> 00:28:33,966 of professional conduct by attorneys appearing before the USPTO. 519 00:28:34,466 --> 00:28:38,600 And the OED Director may issue warnings, institute formal charges 520 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,366 against the practitioner, or enter into a settlement agreement with the attorney. 521 00:28:43,033 --> 00:28:46,266 OED also has the attorney - the authority 522 00:28:46,266 --> 00:28:50,400 to refer the attorney to his or her state bar for reciprocal discipline. 523 00:28:51,566 --> 00:28:54,800 Now, in cases involving criminal activity or suspected criminal activity, 524 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,466 Trademarks will refer the matter to the Department of Commerce's 525 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,000 Office of the Inspector General, who then may refer the matter 526 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,066 to other law enforcement agencies. 527 00:29:06,133 --> 00:29:09,366 Now, using this administrative sanction process, 528 00:29:10,033 --> 00:29:11,200 most recently, the Commissioner 529 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,633 for Trademarks has issued several orders for sanctions 530 00:29:13,966 --> 00:29:15,900 and we continue to issue show-clause orders, 531 00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:18,333 and these are all available on our website. 532 00:29:18,366 --> 00:29:20,366 I have a link at the end of this presentation. 533 00:29:22,533 --> 00:29:24,666 This first one on this slide, Mr. Ngo. 534 00:29:24,666 --> 00:29:28,166 In late 2020, we issued a show-cause order. 535 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,100 And then an order for sanctions to this individual in Vietnam who was responsible 536 00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:35,900 for over three hundred changes of correspondence address in trademark 537 00:29:35,933 --> 00:29:39,166 registrations, primarily owned by banking institutions. 538 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,533 Now, we have worked with our OCIO, 539 00:29:42,533 --> 00:29:46,366 our chief, um, uh, our folks over in I.T. 540 00:29:46,366 --> 00:29:49,200 and we locked all of his USPTO.gov accounts. 541 00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:51,000 We've taken additional measures 542 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,233 to try to identify and block any new accounts he might try to open. 543 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,333 Now we have, uh, log in requirements, phase two and phase three, 544 00:29:58,333 --> 00:29:59,300 that I'll explain later and 545 00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:00,833 we hope that'll make this process 546 00:30:00,833 --> 00:30:03,566 easier to lock down these accounts going forward. 547 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,966 Now, we also issued, 548 00:30:06,966 --> 00:30:11,700 uh, a final order in late 20 - uh, let's see, it was late November 2020. 549 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:14,633 We identified one application for a well known mark. 550 00:30:14,633 --> 00:30:16,766 It was filed in the name of the legitimate owner, 551 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:20,733 but the correspondence address clearly belonged to somebody else. 552 00:30:21,433 --> 00:30:23,666 Um, we identified several more 553 00:30:24,766 --> 00:30:28,066 examples of that in the next few months, and we handled each of those case by case. 554 00:30:28,766 --> 00:30:32,633 But our investigation kind of showed that there was something going on here. 555 00:30:32,633 --> 00:30:33,866 There was a scheme. 556 00:30:33,866 --> 00:30:37,100 So we issued a show-cause order to the individual 557 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:40,100 that was implicated in the USPTO.gov accounts filing these. 558 00:30:40,466 --> 00:30:44,900 We requested an explanation. After an unsatisfactory response, 559 00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:48,233 we issued an order for sanctions, we terminated those applications, 560 00:30:48,233 --> 00:30:51,300 and we have precluded this individual from making further submissions and 561 00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:52,133 locked his accounts. 562 00:30:53,166 --> 00:30:56,200 Uh, now recently in June, we issued a show-cause order 563 00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:00,533 to an IP firm in China. 564 00:31:01,566 --> 00:31:04,566 The order required evidence and information that would explain 565 00:31:05,166 --> 00:31:08,533 whether Ms. Zhang and her employees were authorized to practice before the USPTO 566 00:31:08,533 --> 00:31:13,366 and why your USPTO.gov accounts were used by thousands of applications 567 00:31:13,366 --> 00:31:17,133 featuring fake names, fake domicile addresses, and fake signatures. 568 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,966 We're currently evaluating the response and determining next steps. 569 00:31:22,666 --> 00:31:25,100 Couple of other things I wanted to bring your attention to. 570 00:31:25,933 --> 00:31:29,766 I talked about OED, so I wanted to share some some information. 571 00:31:30,466 --> 00:31:34,833 Um, OED looks at attorney misconduct related to trademark schemes and scams, 572 00:31:34,833 --> 00:31:38,400 and they recently entered into a settlement agreement with Mr. Lou, 573 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,800 a New York-licensed attorney based in China. 574 00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:44,966 Mr. Lou had a service agreement with the Shenzhen IP company to file U.S. 575 00:31:44,966 --> 00:31:48,500 applications on behalf of that that company's clients. 576 00:31:49,266 --> 00:31:52,300 Now, the agreement states, the OED agreement states that Lou did 577 00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:55,600 not personally advise nor personally enter his electronic signature 578 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,333 on any of the thousands of applications in which he appeared. 579 00:31:58,833 --> 00:32:00,833 Now, OED had suspended Mr. Lou 580 00:32:00,833 --> 00:32:04,466 from practice before the USPTO and he's required to take corrective action 581 00:32:04,466 --> 00:32:07,000 before he can reappear on a probationary basis. 582 00:32:08,866 --> 00:32:11,266 Another order, actually, that just came out. 583 00:32:12,966 --> 00:32:16,800 Here, we have another settlement agreement with a U.S. 584 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,000 attorney, a California-based attorney who has been providing 585 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,766 trademark advice, or trademark legal services, since 2005. 586 00:32:24,433 --> 00:32:27,566 She had a service agreement with an Indian company to review and sign 587 00:32:27,566 --> 00:32:30,800 trademark applications that were prepared by the foreign company 588 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,933 at a rate of one hundred dollars per hour. 589 00:32:33,933 --> 00:32:35,566 She was listed as an attorney of record 590 00:32:35,566 --> 00:32:38,966 in 2300 applications filed over a five-month period. 591 00:32:39,633 --> 00:32:41,666 She - the settlement agreement, you can go and look at it. 592 00:32:41,666 --> 00:32:43,900 There's a link at the end of my slides here. 593 00:32:44,466 --> 00:32:47,366 She reviewed and signed the applications, but said her reviews were 594 00:32:47,366 --> 00:32:50,000 sometimes inadequate and she did not take reasonable steps 595 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,066 to ensure the applicants were properly advised. 596 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,033 She has been, then, if you read the agreement, 597 00:32:56,033 --> 00:32:58,566 you'll see that she has been reprimanded, is on probation. 598 00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:01,600 She has to do trademark and ethics CLE 599 00:33:01,866 --> 00:33:05,400 and she must review the Trademark Manual of Examination Procedure. 600 00:33:06,266 --> 00:33:08,900 So we're pretty happy about that. 601 00:33:09,066 --> 00:33:11,133 And now we're going to move on. 602 00:33:13,433 --> 00:33:15,000 Misleading solicitations. 603 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,833 Okay, so we're taking aggressive actions to stop bad actors, 604 00:33:19,833 --> 00:33:23,466 and we also need to warn our customers about these these what's going on there. 605 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,500 We need to warn our customers about what we're seeing in the way of scams. 606 00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:29,500 What we're doing about it and what they can do to protect themselves. 607 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:34,966 So we are really ramping up our web content to provide more information 608 00:33:35,266 --> 00:33:40,066 about our work and our resources and try to, you know, address 609 00:33:40,066 --> 00:33:43,233 those who have been affected by these schemes or who might be affected. 610 00:33:43,933 --> 00:33:46,733 So certainly look for more information on our website. 611 00:33:47,366 --> 00:33:49,333 We are ramping up efforts. 612 00:33:49,333 --> 00:33:51,900 It's a huge machine that we're trying to get started. 613 00:33:52,166 --> 00:33:54,666 So be patient with us as we try to make sure 614 00:33:55,333 --> 00:33:58,366 we are providing all the information that our customers need. 615 00:33:59,733 --> 00:34:03,933 Um, so one of these pages here, you'll see it, the scam alert page. 616 00:34:03,966 --> 00:34:08,366 It has a list of entities sending out potentially misleading solicitations 617 00:34:08,966 --> 00:34:12,166 that other customers have received and reported to us. 618 00:34:12,166 --> 00:34:16,433 And we have links to all of those examples of those solicitations on our website. 619 00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:18,000 Now, one of those 620 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,600 I want to draw your attention to actually worked out pretty well for us. 621 00:34:21,833 --> 00:34:26,700 So, uh, law enforcement was investigating a mail fraud scheme and they came across 622 00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:30,500 that list on the last slide of our, uh, misleading solicitations. 623 00:34:30,966 --> 00:34:35,800 They were investigating a uh, scammer, Viktor Suhorukovs, who ran a three year 624 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,833 multimillion dollar mail fraud scheme to defraud trademark holders, 625 00:34:39,533 --> 00:34:42,666 Suhorukovs' company, the Patent and Trademark Office, LLC. 626 00:34:42,666 --> 00:34:45,566 And I guess he was also running the Patent and Trademark Bureau, LLC, 627 00:34:46,133 --> 00:34:48,900 sent out renewal notices to holders indicating 628 00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,666 a renewal date that was earlier than what our records said. 629 00:34:52,266 --> 00:34:56,466 The notices included a QR code that linked to our site and asked holders 630 00:34:56,466 --> 00:35:00,100 to pay him their inflated renewal fees, which they did. 631 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,800 2900 victims fell for the scheme. 632 00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:06,866 The government agents who were investigating the scheme 633 00:35:06,866 --> 00:35:11,066 found the misleading solicitation that we had on our website, 634 00:35:11,066 --> 00:35:15,500 and that actually helped them find the scammer and go after him. 635 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:17,500 The government actually 636 00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:20,733 was able to seize 2.4 million in Suhorukovs' assets 637 00:35:21,333 --> 00:35:23,933 that now can be used to compensate the victims of the schemes. 638 00:35:25,033 --> 00:35:26,966 The U.S. attorneys who were investigating 639 00:35:26,966 --> 00:35:30,433 asked for our assistance in identifying affected applicants. 640 00:35:30,433 --> 00:35:32,600 They had about 200 of their applicants, 641 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,966 the victims of the scheme that they couldn't find. 642 00:35:34,966 --> 00:35:37,100 And we helped provide them information about 643 00:35:37,766 --> 00:35:40,400 where those applicants could be located so they could get the, 644 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,900 uh, get some restitution from, uh, from the defendant in this case. 645 00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,500 So we're pretty happy that this guy has been sentenced to four years 646 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,266 and ordered to pay 4.5 million in restitution. 647 00:35:52,433 --> 00:35:55,266 All right. Moving on. 648 00:35:55,866 --> 00:35:59,800 On our register protection initiatives now, we're at 2019: 649 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,066 U.S. council rule. Um, I'm guessing that you're all familiar 650 00:36:03,066 --> 00:36:06,500 with this rule requiring foreign domiciliés to be represented by a U.S. 651 00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:09,300 licensed attorney in trademark matters before the USPTO. 652 00:36:09,733 --> 00:36:10,866 If I had to guess, the reason 653 00:36:10,866 --> 00:36:14,233 that you are familiar with it is all the media attention paid to it 654 00:36:15,066 --> 00:36:17,133 by those who are attempting to circumvent the rule. 655 00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:18,733 As you know, the U.S. 656 00:36:18,733 --> 00:36:22,466 council rule requires all applicants represented or unrepresented 657 00:36:22,766 --> 00:36:26,266 to provide us their domicile address so we can evaluate whether the council 658 00:36:26,266 --> 00:36:26,866 rule is triggered. 659 00:36:27,833 --> 00:36:30,100 Now, what we see, of course, are attempts to circumvent 660 00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:33,866 the rule. We see fake names, fake addresses located in the U.S., 661 00:36:33,866 --> 00:36:36,600 and we see U.S. attorneys who are - 662 00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:41,133 who have agreed to rent their attorney credentials to an applicant 663 00:36:41,133 --> 00:36:44,233 or a foreign filing firm to use to file in the United States. 664 00:36:45,733 --> 00:36:48,466 So what are we doing about these unacceptable addresses? 665 00:36:49,233 --> 00:36:52,433 Um, it's been a tough slog 666 00:36:52,433 --> 00:36:55,666 because if we rely on our examining attorneys to use Google Earth 667 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,433 to try to investigate each 668 00:36:57,433 --> 00:37:00,600 and every address, to figure out really, is it a residence? 669 00:37:00,866 --> 00:37:01,933 Is it a real address? 670 00:37:01,933 --> 00:37:06,600 What is it? It's not the most efficient use of their time and their training. 671 00:37:07,233 --> 00:37:09,700 So we have implemented some automated queries. 672 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:12,300 We're looking for P.O. boxes. We're looking for care of boxes. 673 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:15,400 We're looking for commercial mail, receiving agency addresses. 674 00:37:15,633 --> 00:37:18,600 We flagged these as unacceptable. 675 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,866 And we let our examining attorneys know that they need to 676 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:24,966 to issue a refusal or a request for information 677 00:37:24,966 --> 00:37:28,466 or however they might want to handle it in order to get an acceptable address. 678 00:37:29,166 --> 00:37:32,000 We're also seeking ways to have an automated 679 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,366 verification address, verification check upfront 680 00:37:35,266 --> 00:37:37,433 during the application stage or during pre-exam. 681 00:37:37,433 --> 00:37:40,633 So we're still looking at what is the most efficient way to do this 682 00:37:40,633 --> 00:37:42,700 with the least impact on good faith filers. 683 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,200 All right, so what are we doing about the attorney misconduct, 684 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,400 those who are trying to circumvent the U.S. 685 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,366 counsel rule. As part of our investigation process, we identify attorneys 686 00:37:54,366 --> 00:37:57,300 that are seemingly involved in schemes who are violating our rules 687 00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:00,300 or they're violating ethics rules, and we collect evidence. 688 00:38:00,533 --> 00:38:01,766 And when appropriate, as I said, 689 00:38:01,766 --> 00:38:05,400 we refer them to OED or to law enforcement if there's criminal activity. 690 00:38:05,866 --> 00:38:09,433 Now, we have referred dozens of matters over to OED and a couple of matters 691 00:38:09,433 --> 00:38:11,533 over to law enforcement over the last year or two. 692 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,266 Um, what we hear is that there are a lot of attorneys 693 00:38:15,266 --> 00:38:18,733 who are then being investigated, will claim ignorance of our signature 694 00:38:18,733 --> 00:38:22,100 rules, they'll claim they didn't know about their own ethics rules. 695 00:38:22,833 --> 00:38:25,466 They'll claim they didn't know a lot of the TMEP. 696 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:29,700 We've actually had, um, have discussions, as I understand it, to try to point out 697 00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:31,266 where the TMEP is on our website 698 00:38:31,266 --> 00:38:33,500 to some of these attorneys who are violating their rules. 699 00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:36,566 Now, do they really not know or is that just uh 700 00:38:36,633 --> 00:38:39,200 when they're asked that's what they say? I don't know. 701 00:38:39,766 --> 00:38:45,100 Um, we're certainly going to continue to to press and investigate and discipline 702 00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:48,966 those who are circumventing our rules and violating their own rules of 703 00:38:48,966 --> 00:38:49,833 professional conduct. 704 00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:54,000 Um, you saw those two OED settlement agreements 705 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,100 resulting from our referrals over to OED for specific practitioners. 706 00:38:58,633 --> 00:39:02,000 But uh, and you can track OED's uh, settlement agreement. 707 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,300 You can even track their final orders if you go to our FOIA reading room. 708 00:39:06,666 --> 00:39:11,833 So FIOA reading room, USPTO, OED, you'll find a list of 709 00:39:11,833 --> 00:39:14,400 of all of those agreements or final orders. 710 00:39:15,066 --> 00:39:18,733 And one thing I would say is that it is possible, 711 00:39:19,633 --> 00:39:23,733 uh, for you all to file a grievance against an attorney. 712 00:39:24,166 --> 00:39:27,600 Uh, if you think that there are grounds for discipline of that 713 00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:31,900 that particular practitioner, and you are invited to file a grievance 714 00:39:32,966 --> 00:39:35,400 at OED@uspto.gov 715 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,800 So if you find evidence of attorney misconduct and you want to let the OED 716 00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:43,666 folks know, please do so through OED@uspto.gov. 717 00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:51,000 Let's see. I'm looking to see if I, 718 00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:52,866 you know, I think we'll come 719 00:39:52,866 --> 00:39:54,500 to those questions at the end, that's a really long one. 720 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:56,233 It'll take me a while to read. 721 00:39:56,233 --> 00:39:59,966 OK, moving on to the next initiative is mandatory account login. 722 00:40:01,533 --> 00:40:05,633 Again, in 2019, busy year, we began requiring a USPTO.gov account 723 00:40:05,633 --> 00:40:10,033 for filing any TEAS form, and that allows us to track filing behavior. 724 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,633 Um, we have two more upcoming phases that I want to tell you 725 00:40:13,633 --> 00:40:16,200 about that will further increase the scrutiny. 726 00:40:16,766 --> 00:40:17,833 I'm sorry, further increase 727 00:40:17,833 --> 00:40:21,700 the security of our database and better tracking for us. 728 00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:25,300 So we're pretty happy about that. Phase two, identity verification. 729 00:40:25,366 --> 00:40:27,300 It's currently in beta testing. 730 00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:30,300 We're partnering with ID.me to authenticate 731 00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:34,066 the owners of USPTO.gov accounts used to file TEAS forms. 732 00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:39,333 The automated process requires a government photo ID - of government-issued 733 00:40:39,333 --> 00:40:43,133 photo ID. A USPTO.gov account that matches the ID. 734 00:40:43,366 --> 00:40:46,733 It requires a smartphone, computer, a tablet with a front-facing camera. 735 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:49,433 It requires a Social Security number. 736 00:40:49,433 --> 00:40:52,300 And those without a Social Security number, such as foreign nationals, 737 00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:56,566 will be routed to an in-person video session to verify those identities. 738 00:40:56,933 --> 00:40:59,100 If you don't want to do the automated option, 739 00:40:59,366 --> 00:41:02,800 you can still do paper. You can do a paper notarized form, 740 00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:05,466 but obviously that will take a lot longer. 741 00:41:06,266 --> 00:41:10,166 Once we verify identities, we can terminate USPTO.gov accounts 742 00:41:10,166 --> 00:41:13,900 and then prevent new accounts by that same bad actor from being created, 743 00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:16,300 once the sanctions are imposed. 744 00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,833 So that will allow us to lock down 745 00:41:18,833 --> 00:41:22,200 accounts and hopefully keep them from popping back up again. 746 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,066 Uh, let's see, uh, phase three, 747 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,633 uh, of log in is role-based access controls. The USPTO 748 00:41:30,633 --> 00:41:33,666 it plans on assigning a limited number of roles to control 749 00:41:33,666 --> 00:41:37,000 and delegate access to TEAS form filings. 750 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,766 The proposed rules are the, I'm sorry, the proposed roles are - 751 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,933 I think I have a slide on this. Did I miss that? Yes, I did. 752 00:41:46,533 --> 00:41:49,066 Okay. Sorry about that. 753 00:41:49,066 --> 00:41:53,100 There we go. Uh, the roles, uh, U.S.-licensed attorney, 754 00:41:53,433 --> 00:41:57,300 a Canadian attorney or agent, attorney support staff, and trademark owner. 755 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:02,866 Only authorized customers with those roles will be able to file 756 00:42:02,866 --> 00:42:05,766 TEAS forms related to the application or registration. 757 00:42:06,233 --> 00:42:08,600 What will this do for us? It will stop hijacking. 758 00:42:08,633 --> 00:42:13,133 It will stop the unauthorized changes of correspondence addresses that we see. 759 00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:15,966 And they have certainly gone down as - 760 00:42:15,966 --> 00:42:20,000 but it's a manual process for us and rather labor intensive. 761 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,400 So to be able to have a way to stop that from happening 762 00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:28,233 and improve the security of our systems is much, much 763 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,166 welcome from from our standpoint and hopefully from yours. 764 00:42:33,433 --> 00:42:36,766 All right. Now we're going to move on 765 00:42:36,766 --> 00:42:39,033 to our last stop on our register protection 766 00:42:39,033 --> 00:42:40,566 initiative timeline. It's certainly, well, 767 00:42:40,566 --> 00:42:42,466 not our last stop, it's our most recent stop. 768 00:42:42,466 --> 00:42:46,000 We're going to still continue to work on various initiatives to make sure 769 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,933 that our register remains accurate and useful. 770 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,500 Um, 2018, 2019. We faced 771 00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:57,266 a surge of applications and they had sketchy specimens in them. 772 00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,533 Congress asked us how they could help, 773 00:43:00,533 --> 00:43:04,833 how we - what we would need from a statutory perspective to respond to the trend 774 00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:06,866 and to deal with the overall concern 775 00:43:06,866 --> 00:43:10,233 about false claims of use in trademark applications and maintenance filings. 776 00:43:10,966 --> 00:43:15,900 Now, Congress passed the TMA and gave us until December 27th, 2021, 777 00:43:16,166 --> 00:43:19,566 to implement most of the proceedings necessitated by the statute. 778 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,566 Now, we were in a hurry. 779 00:43:21,566 --> 00:43:24,433 We we normally would have issued a request for comments, 780 00:43:24,433 --> 00:43:27,033 and then we would have gone out with a notice of proposed rulemaking, 781 00:43:27,033 --> 00:43:28,433 and then we would have gone to a final rule. 782 00:43:28,433 --> 00:43:30,633 But we didn't have that kind of time. 783 00:43:30,633 --> 00:43:34,800 So we did a bunch of roundtables which are on our website. 784 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,666 There's a link at the end to our TMA page which will link you to all of 785 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,100 the roundtables that we had. 786 00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:43,666 In those consultations with stakeholders through the roundtables 787 00:43:43,666 --> 00:43:45,700 then we drafted a notice of proposed rulemaking 788 00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:48,866 and we issued it for public comments. We had more roundtables. 789 00:43:49,133 --> 00:43:51,566 And now the final rule is being drafted. 790 00:43:52,433 --> 00:43:55,200 Now, what's in the the the uh, the final rule? 791 00:43:55,566 --> 00:43:58,066 We've got the letter of protest procedure procedure. 792 00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:01,233 We got flexible response periods and nonuse cancelation proceedings. 793 00:44:01,233 --> 00:44:05,000 So those are the three main features of the TMA that are in the rule package. 794 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,266 Um, letter of protest. 795 00:44:07,266 --> 00:44:09,366 It's the same proceeding that you've known for years. 796 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,433 It's nothing has has changed. 797 00:44:11,433 --> 00:44:13,633 Um, just a few tweaks. 798 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,266 Uh, the legislation authorized, as I said, to charge a fee of fifty dollars 799 00:44:17,266 --> 00:44:18,466 to cover our cost. 800 00:44:18,466 --> 00:44:22,033 And Congress imposed a two month time limit for sending the relevant evidence 801 00:44:22,033 --> 00:44:23,600 to the examining attorney. 802 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,033 Everything remains the same as you've always known it. 803 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,566 Uh, flexible response periods. 804 00:44:28,566 --> 00:44:31,133 Um, we offered three options in the NPRM. 805 00:44:31,133 --> 00:44:32,466 We got comments. 806 00:44:32,466 --> 00:44:34,400 Um, and let's see. 807 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,033 I think I have a slide on that. 808 00:44:36,033 --> 00:44:37,933 So let's go there. No. 809 00:44:37,933 --> 00:44:40,000 Okay. I took that one out. Um. 810 00:44:41,300 --> 00:44:43,766 Let's see right now, you know, 811 00:44:43,866 --> 00:44:47,700 for an office action and examination, you've got a six-month response period. 812 00:44:47,933 --> 00:44:49,833 And that might be reasonable and necessary. 813 00:44:49,833 --> 00:44:51,000 I think it was started 814 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,033 back when we had boats crossing with office actions and responses. 815 00:44:54,966 --> 00:44:57,466 So it's still maybe reasonable and even necessary 816 00:44:57,466 --> 00:45:01,400 for a particularly complex office action, but it's not necessary for all. 817 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,333 And that time lag 818 00:45:04,633 --> 00:45:08,500 where applications are taking up space in our system longer than they need to. 819 00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:10,366 That means it's harder to clear marks. 820 00:45:10,366 --> 00:45:11,700 And it's particularly frustrating 821 00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:14,300 if the applications that are sitting there are suspicious ones. 822 00:45:15,333 --> 00:45:19,433 So we are looking for ways to increase the flexibility 823 00:45:19,433 --> 00:45:22,666 for us to move applications through the system more quickly 824 00:45:23,233 --> 00:45:27,166 and certainly to to move applications through for the benefit 825 00:45:27,166 --> 00:45:28,233 of our stakeholders 826 00:45:28,233 --> 00:45:31,233 to try to clear marks a little bit faster, get marks off the register. 827 00:45:31,766 --> 00:45:35,400 We are reviewing the comments on the various options that we presented 828 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,266 as we develop the final rule. And just be aware, 829 00:45:39,266 --> 00:45:43,300 we did propose a delayed implementation date for flexible response periods. 830 00:45:43,933 --> 00:45:47,333 But we know we have docketing issues, you have docketing issues. 831 00:45:47,833 --> 00:45:52,533 And so we are taking that into account as to delaying implementation. 832 00:45:52,533 --> 00:45:55,633 So don't look for flexible response periods to be implemented 833 00:45:55,633 --> 00:45:58,200 December 2021, because it's not going to happen. 834 00:45:59,066 --> 00:46:00,300 Don't worry, it will be delayed. 835 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,466 But I really want to focus on nonuse cancelation proceedings, because that's 836 00:46:05,466 --> 00:46:10,533 really where from a registered protection initiative the action is. 837 00:46:10,533 --> 00:46:13,400 OK, let's talk about 838 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,266 nonuse cancelation. 839 00:46:16,433 --> 00:46:19,666 The first type of proceeding is expungement, um. 840 00:46:21,233 --> 00:46:24,533 The target of an expungement proceeding is a Section 1, 841 00:46:24,933 --> 00:46:29,866 a Section 44, or Section 66 registration that has never been used on 842 00:46:29,866 --> 00:46:32,766 some or all of the goods and services identified in the registration. 843 00:46:33,633 --> 00:46:35,900 There are three types of proceedings in which this new 844 00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:38,866 claim or new ground for cancelation is available. 845 00:46:39,133 --> 00:46:42,366 Number one, a petition initiated proceedings before the Director. 846 00:46:42,933 --> 00:46:45,966 Number two, a Director-initiated proceeding before the Director. 847 00:46:46,366 --> 00:46:49,700 And third, is a cancelation proceeding at the TTAB. 848 00:46:50,633 --> 00:46:54,366 Now, the first two types of proceedings here before the Director, 849 00:46:54,366 --> 00:46:57,866 they may be instituted in the window of time between year 850 00:46:57,866 --> 00:47:00,333 three and year 10 after registration. 851 00:47:01,133 --> 00:47:06,000 The third type of proceeding before the board is a bit different. 852 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,533 The timing is different. 853 00:47:07,533 --> 00:47:12,000 The claim is available any time after the first three years post-registration. 854 00:47:12,333 --> 00:47:15,966 But it doesn't cut off at 10 years like the proceedings before the Director. 855 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,266 So keep that in mind. 856 00:47:18,266 --> 00:47:22,600 An expungement proceeding is any time, post-registration three years. Okay. 857 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,200 Now, a point of distinction here. 858 00:47:26,966 --> 00:47:31,000 The claim of expungement is fundamentally different from a claim of abandonment. 859 00:47:31,633 --> 00:47:36,700 Abandonment, as you know, requires nonuse, plus an intent not to resume use. 860 00:47:37,433 --> 00:47:40,066 Expungement does not look at the registrant's intent. 861 00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:42,366 We're not evaluating the intent of the registrant. 862 00:47:42,466 --> 00:47:46,100 It's an entirely new statutory basis for cancelation. 863 00:47:46,366 --> 00:47:49,166 It only evaluates whether the mark was used on the challenged 864 00:47:49,166 --> 00:47:53,133 goods and services prior to the date of filing of the expungement petition. 865 00:47:54,366 --> 00:47:56,533 It does not evaluate whether the mark was put into 866 00:47:56,533 --> 00:47:58,633 use as of the dates required by the statute. 867 00:47:59,566 --> 00:48:02,466 That is a question for reexamination proceeding, 868 00:48:02,466 --> 00:48:05,766 which let's turn to next. 869 00:48:06,733 --> 00:48:07,533 Congress created 870 00:48:07,533 --> 00:48:10,533 the second new proceeding before the Director called reexamination. 871 00:48:10,833 --> 00:48:14,166 The target is Section 1 registrations that were not in use 872 00:48:14,466 --> 00:48:16,733 as of the relevant date. 873 00:48:16,733 --> 00:48:19,466 The relevant date for purposes of this 874 00:48:19,466 --> 00:48:23,066 proceeding in a Section 1(a) is the application filing date. 875 00:48:23,666 --> 00:48:27,066 The relevant date for 1(b) applications is the later 876 00:48:27,266 --> 00:48:30,266 of the filing date of the amendment to allege use, the AAU, 877 00:48:30,833 --> 00:48:34,300 or the expiration of time to file the SOU, the statement of use. 878 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,300 As for timing, a petition to request institution of proceedings for 879 00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:43,500 reexamination may be filed in the first five years after registration. 880 00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:47,866 There are two new types of proceedings before the Director in which this claim 881 00:48:47,866 --> 00:48:51,333 is available, as you see here, petition- initiated and Director-initiated. 882 00:48:51,766 --> 00:48:54,533 Note that I did not put the third proceeding 883 00:48:54,533 --> 00:48:58,333 before the Board for reexamination like I had it for expungement. Why? 884 00:48:58,766 --> 00:49:01,333 This is because this this ground already exists. 885 00:49:01,333 --> 00:49:04,566 This claim - ground for cancelation, nonuse 886 00:49:04,633 --> 00:49:07,800 as of the relevant date, is already there in Section 14. 887 00:49:08,133 --> 00:49:10,600 You can bring it at the TTAB. 888 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,900 These reexamination proceedings before the Director 889 00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:17,866 do not affect the existing nonuse claim at the TTAB as to evidence or as to timing. 890 00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:19,766 There's no relationship. 891 00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:22,700 Now, let me walk you through the proceeding. 892 00:49:24,366 --> 00:49:26,633 Well, actually, let me tell you what the petition says first, hold on. 893 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,333 OK, so the NPRM that you all hopefully reviewed very carefully and provided 894 00:49:31,333 --> 00:49:34,433 comments to us, which for which we really appreciate those comments. 895 00:49:35,366 --> 00:49:37,766 It lays out the matching procedures that will be followed 896 00:49:37,766 --> 00:49:40,400 in both expungement and reexamination proceedings. 897 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,166 To start with, we're proposing a $600 per class fee. 898 00:49:44,166 --> 00:49:46,300 Now, that was a point of contention 899 00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:48,833 in the comments that we are looking at that in the final rule. 900 00:49:49,866 --> 00:49:53,733 The statute says any person may file a petition requesting 901 00:49:53,733 --> 00:49:57,100 that either expungement or reexamination proceeding be instituted. 902 00:49:58,666 --> 00:50:00,233 To file the petition, however, the petitioner 903 00:50:00,233 --> 00:50:03,800 must have a USPTO.gov account so we know who they are. 904 00:50:03,833 --> 00:50:04,766 Now, we might not know who 905 00:50:04,766 --> 00:50:07,100 the real party in interest is, but we know who the petitioner is. 906 00:50:08,033 --> 00:50:10,133 The petition must include a verified statement, 907 00:50:10,866 --> 00:50:14,066 as well as any dockery - documentary evidence of nonuse. 908 00:50:14,066 --> 00:50:16,300 The verified statement must identify the elements 909 00:50:16,300 --> 00:50:18,766 of the petitioner's investigation for nonuse. 910 00:50:18,766 --> 00:50:20,900 Where did you search? How did you search? 911 00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:22,066 When did you search? 912 00:50:22,066 --> 00:50:26,366 And what did you find as to each of the sources of information relied on? 913 00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:30,466 Now, the reasonableness of the search and the number and the nature 914 00:50:30,466 --> 00:50:33,900 of the sources the petitioner must search will be determined case by case, 915 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,866 because, of course, industry sectors differ. Nonuse evidence 916 00:50:37,866 --> 00:50:40,766 is not going to be found in the same place for every industry sector. 917 00:50:41,733 --> 00:50:44,700 So there is no one, one-size-fits-all here, 918 00:50:44,966 --> 00:50:50,200 and the the the NPRM reflects that as to a case by case analysis. 919 00:50:51,133 --> 00:50:54,933 Now, once a complete petition is filed and has all of the required elements, 920 00:50:54,933 --> 00:50:58,400 a courtesy email notice of the filing of the petition will go to the registrant 921 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,133 and the registrant's attorney, if we have one in our files. 922 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,266 We want the registrant to be notified early that something is happening. 923 00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:08,800 The petition and the evidence will also be uploaded immediately 924 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,866 into the Trademark Status and Document Retrieval system, TSDR, 925 00:51:12,066 --> 00:51:13,400 and it will be made public. 926 00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:19,800 OK. The procedures, how they go. 927 00:51:20,266 --> 00:51:22,700 Once that petition is submitted and is complete, 928 00:51:23,433 --> 00:51:25,866 the petitioner is entirely out of the process. 929 00:51:27,066 --> 00:51:29,900 It is the Director who decides whether the prima facie case is made 930 00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:31,966 based on evidence and information in the petition 931 00:51:31,966 --> 00:51:35,600 and our records, the electronic record of the involved registration. 932 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,400 We're not just looking at the petition, we're also looking at our records. 933 00:51:39,166 --> 00:51:43,100 The Director has the authority to institute proceedings without a petition. 934 00:51:43,466 --> 00:51:46,900 If the Director has evidence of establishing a prima facie case. 935 00:51:47,933 --> 00:51:52,266 The same procedures as those listed here would apply to a Director-initiated 936 00:51:52,266 --> 00:51:55,500 proceeding, it just doesn't have the petition or the verified statement. 937 00:51:56,533 --> 00:52:00,300 If a prima facie case is established, the Director must institute proceedings. 938 00:52:01,033 --> 00:52:02,433 If a proceeding is instituted, 939 00:52:02,433 --> 00:52:05,733 the examiner will issue both a notice of institution and an office action 940 00:52:06,233 --> 00:52:08,766 that directs the registrant to respond within 941 00:52:08,766 --> 00:52:11,733 two months with proof of use of the mark on the challenged goods or services. 942 00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,966 Now, I said two months here, but of course, in our request, 943 00:52:16,066 --> 00:52:16,900 in our comments, 944 00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:20,400 we got a lot of different views as to how long that period would be. 945 00:52:20,666 --> 00:52:22,233 And we are looking at that in the final rule. 946 00:52:22,233 --> 00:52:25,500 So before you gasp at the two months, let's wait and see what the final rule 947 00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:29,633 says. Now, the registrant has three options for his or her response: 948 00:52:30,333 --> 00:52:34,733 provide evidence of use, excusable nonuse, or deletion. 949 00:52:36,100 --> 00:52:38,233 Now let's walk through those options, right? 950 00:52:38,233 --> 00:52:41,933 If the registrant provides an acceptable response, the proceedings are terminated. 951 00:52:41,933 --> 00:52:44,866 So everything's done. Now, 952 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,800 if the registrant provides evidence of use, 953 00:52:49,466 --> 00:52:52,500 the registrant has to rebut the prima facie case with evidence of 954 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,066 of use information, exhibits, affidavits, declarations 955 00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:59,466 that establish that the required use in commerce has been made 956 00:52:59,466 --> 00:53:02,766 on or in connection with the goods and services that are being challenged. 957 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,066 Second, the registrant can provide evidence supporting 958 00:53:06,066 --> 00:53:09,533 excusable nonuse, but only in limited circumstances. 959 00:53:10,033 --> 00:53:13,933 The statute sets out that this only applies to a Section 44 960 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,966 or 66 registrant in the context of an expungement proceeding. 961 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,966 This does not apply in reexamination. 962 00:53:20,966 --> 00:53:23,366 Now, third, the third option is deletion. 963 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,666 A registrant may simply just delete all of the challenged 964 00:53:26,666 --> 00:53:29,966 goods and services in his or her response with immediate effect. 965 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,366 And then we move on. Right? 966 00:53:32,366 --> 00:53:35,833 If the response is acceptable, if anyone of any one of those three is is 967 00:53:36,066 --> 00:53:37,866 is taken care of and it's acceptable, 968 00:53:37,866 --> 00:53:40,200 then we will terminate the proceedings and everybody goes home. 969 00:53:43,833 --> 00:53:46,200 OK, now what happens, though, in a second 970 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,300 scenario here where the registrant's response is unacceptable. 971 00:53:49,833 --> 00:53:55,300 The examiner will issue a final action then that includes the examiner's decision 972 00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,233 that the registration should be canceled for each good or service for 973 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,433 the registrant did not provide an acceptable response 974 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,366 or for noncompliance with any requirement under the U.S. council rule, 975 00:54:06,866 --> 00:54:10,633 the electronic correspondence rule, or the domicile address rule. 976 00:54:10,633 --> 00:54:14,166 We will go final on a requirement under those three. 977 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,666 The registrant must respond to the final action within two months 978 00:54:19,333 --> 00:54:22,300 with a request for reconsideration and a notice of appeal. 979 00:54:23,333 --> 00:54:26,366 Now, if that request for reconsideration contains acceptable 980 00:54:26,366 --> 00:54:27,866 proof of use or deletions, 981 00:54:27,866 --> 00:54:30,333 then we're done. We will terminate proceedings and walk away. 982 00:54:31,266 --> 00:54:35,266 But if not, the examiner's decision to cancel his appeal to the TTAB 983 00:54:35,266 --> 00:54:38,600 and then everything goes to the Board, regular timelines apply. 984 00:54:40,266 --> 00:54:42,733 Now we have a third scenario here. 985 00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:45,633 No response. Registrant does not respond. 986 00:54:46,366 --> 00:54:49,466 No response results in immediate cancelation for the goods and services on 987 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,700 which the proceeding was instituted. 988 00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:55,666 Not the entire registration, just those where the proceeding was instituted. 989 00:54:56,333 --> 00:54:58,766 Unless, of course, the whole thing was challenged. 990 00:54:58,766 --> 00:55:01,333 Now, once the goods and services are ordered for cancelation, 991 00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:06,800 a petition for reinstatement is available, but only for an extraordinary situation. 992 00:55:06,833 --> 00:55:09,400 So if the office action was not received 993 00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:13,133 and there's an extraordinary situation for which it was not received, 994 00:55:13,700 --> 00:55:16,366 we can consider that in a petition for reinstatement. 995 00:55:17,866 --> 00:55:20,933 All right. Now, remember 996 00:55:20,933 --> 00:55:23,800 I said that any person may file, and that's in the statute. 997 00:55:24,066 --> 00:55:27,133 So there's no standing requirement for the petitioner. 998 00:55:27,433 --> 00:55:29,833 Now, that has raised some concerns 999 00:55:29,833 --> 00:55:32,900 that there may be abuse, and we totally understand that. 1000 00:55:33,033 --> 00:55:35,200 But there are several provisions built into the statute 1001 00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,200 or that we propose to implement that will help prevent the abuse. 1002 00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:41,500 The Director is the gatekeeper 1003 00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:44,933 and the Director makes the call on whether a prima facie case has been made. 1004 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,700 And neither the petitioner nor the registrant may appeal that determination. 1005 00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:54,300 If the evidence of nonuse makes a prima facie prima facie case, 1006 00:55:54,666 --> 00:55:57,166 and only then will proceedings be instituted. 1007 00:55:58,333 --> 00:56:01,566 Secondly, estoppel. We have estoppel provisions. Goods 1008 00:56:01,566 --> 00:56:03,900 and services for which use in commerce has already been established 1009 00:56:04,133 --> 00:56:07,500 may not be subject to further expungement or reexamination proceedings. 1010 00:56:08,366 --> 00:56:10,233 They can still be challenged at the Board. 1011 00:56:10,233 --> 00:56:13,833 But in the context of these proceedings, if a registrant has provided acceptable 1012 00:56:13,833 --> 00:56:17,300 proof of use for those goods and services that were challenged, those goods 1013 00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:19,700 and services cannot be challenged again in these proceedings. 1014 00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:23,233 Third. Administrative sanctions. 1015 00:56:23,233 --> 00:56:25,333 Now, I just told you all about our administration - 1016 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,966 administrative sanctions process. 1017 00:56:26,966 --> 00:56:31,666 So if we see that a petitioner is abusing these proceedings or harassing 1018 00:56:31,666 --> 00:56:36,033 registrants, we can sanction them outside the context of these proceedings 1019 00:56:36,633 --> 00:56:39,233 through the authority of the Commissioner for Trademarks that I told you all about. 1020 00:56:39,566 --> 00:56:42,366 So if we were to discover that there was a problem, 1021 00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:44,133 we could stop that petitioner from 1022 00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:48,866 from filing future submissions in any any proceeding before the USPTO, 1023 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,966 and we could terminate their USPTO.gov account. 1024 00:56:52,833 --> 00:56:57,033 And once we have phase two of our log in requirements, 1025 00:56:57,033 --> 00:56:59,833 then we could certainly stop them from creating new accounts. 1026 00:56:59,866 --> 00:57:02,566 So that is certainly a help. 1027 00:57:02,566 --> 00:57:04,700 And lastly, relationship to other proceedings. 1028 00:57:04,700 --> 00:57:06,533 Now, as a fourth measure here, 1029 00:57:06,533 --> 00:57:10,200 we're proposing that expungement and reexamination proceedings be included 1030 00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:13,866 among the types of proceedings for which suspension of action by the office 1031 00:57:14,133 --> 00:57:15,600 or the TTAB is authorized. 1032 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,033 So your normal suspension rules will apply. 1033 00:57:19,966 --> 00:57:25,200 Let's see. All right. Timeline. 1034 00:57:26,266 --> 00:57:29,333 This is the TMA implementation timeline, so don't confuse this 1035 00:57:29,333 --> 00:57:31,966 with the first one you saw for register protection. 1036 00:57:32,466 --> 00:57:34,600 We're working on the final rule. 1037 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,166 It will lay out the implementation of the provisions in the TMA, and 1038 00:57:38,166 --> 00:57:41,500 it will also identify the dates of entry into force of the various provisions. 1039 00:57:42,033 --> 00:57:44,866 We are looking to publish this final rule in November, 1040 00:57:44,866 --> 00:57:45,733 2021. 1041 00:57:46,733 --> 00:57:50,400 We again, we're planning on implementing the nonuse cancelation 1042 00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,633 provisions by December 18th, hopefully, the weekend before Christmas. 1043 00:57:54,633 --> 00:57:56,766 So it doesn't hit on Christmas. 1044 00:57:56,766 --> 00:57:59,800 And of course, the statute mandates that we have to have 1045 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,800 expungement and reexamination in place by at least 1046 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,300 December 27, 2021. 1047 00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:07,333 So look for that. Now, 1048 00:58:07,466 --> 00:58:10,000 one public service announcement. 1049 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,900 Update your owner email and correspondence email addresses 1050 00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:16,600 and all your registrations to make sure that you'll get notice of 1051 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,433 a filing of these 1052 00:58:19,666 --> 00:58:20,666 particular petitions. 1053 00:58:20,666 --> 00:58:24,566 We don't want anybody caught off guard, so make sure that you keep everything 1054 00:58:24,566 --> 00:58:27,966 in your records accurate, in our records accurate, 1055 00:58:27,966 --> 00:58:30,766 so that we can contact you if one of these were filed. 1056 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,200 And again, a plea: update your registrations 1057 00:58:34,566 --> 00:58:37,633 as to only those goods and services that are in use. Use 1058 00:58:38,266 --> 00:58:43,166 the Section 7 amendment proceeding and and delete any unused goods and services 1059 00:58:43,333 --> 00:58:46,466 so that you don't get caught up in one of these proceedings. 1060 00:58:47,666 --> 00:58:50,666 Lastly, I mentioned that we had a bunch of slides with links, 1061 00:58:51,366 --> 00:58:54,966 and they actually go to each of the initiatives that I mentioned here today. 1062 00:58:55,633 --> 00:58:59,800 These will be available as part of this recording and on our website. 1063 00:59:00,333 --> 00:59:02,800 So so go and go back and take some time 1064 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,866 and look at all of these links. 1065 00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:08,700 And here you can see 1066 00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:12,533 the the the administrative sanction orders that we issue here. 1067 00:59:13,166 --> 00:59:16,300 Now, keep in mind, this website is clunky and we're working on it. 1068 00:59:16,566 --> 00:59:19,600 We certainly want to make it easier for you all to find what we're doing. 1069 00:59:20,133 --> 00:59:23,466 And we are working on a web page overhaul, honestly, 1070 00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:26,766 on all our protect - register protection initiatives 1071 00:59:27,066 --> 00:59:29,700 so we can make it easier for everybody to find what they're looking for. 1072 00:59:30,366 --> 00:59:35,000 These are the OED settlement agreements that were just talked about. 1073 00:59:35,566 --> 00:59:40,866 If a party has been - has been excluded by an OED order, you'd find that here. 1074 00:59:41,066 --> 00:59:43,233 And here's the Trademark Modernization Act link. 1075 00:59:43,233 --> 00:59:46,833 And it has all the recordings and all the slides and all the information 1076 00:59:46,833 --> 00:59:50,800 that we have to offer you on the Trademark Modernization Act. 1077 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,066 So that, my friends, is my presentation. 1078 00:59:56,066 --> 00:59:59,433 And I'm going to throw it to Jason now. 1079 00:59:59,433 --> 01:00:01,300 -All right, thank you very much, Amy. 1080 01:00:01,300 --> 01:00:05,100 We are going to be moving now into the question and answer portion. 1081 01:00:05,933 --> 01:00:08,166 So we're going to be joined here by Bob Lavache. 1082 01:00:08,166 --> 01:00:11,966 But just a quick reminder, folks, for those of you who are sending in questions. 1083 01:00:12,700 --> 01:00:17,266 The email address to use is TMFeedback@uspto.gov. 1084 01:00:17,766 --> 01:00:18,600 We understand a couple of 1085 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,966 you might have sent some questions into another @uspto.gov 1086 01:00:23,333 --> 01:00:26,366 email address. So we're trying to collect any questions that might have come 1087 01:00:26,366 --> 01:00:27,533 to another email address. 1088 01:00:27,533 --> 01:00:32,433 But please, if you could, send them to TMFeedback@uspto.gov. 1089 01:00:32,466 --> 01:00:34,000 I know we've had a couple come in, 1090 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,066 so hopefully we have some good questions for Amy and Bob to answer. 1091 01:00:37,466 --> 01:00:39,233 So let me give you a little bio on Bob, 1092 01:00:39,233 --> 01:00:42,300 because he's now joining us and we want you to know who he is. 1093 01:00:42,733 --> 01:00:46,666 He's the Senior Trademark Legal Policy Advisor in the USPTO's Office 1094 01:00:46,666 --> 01:00:50,800 of the Deputy Commissioner for Trademark Examination Policy and is the assistant 1095 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,500 editor of the Trademark Manual of Examining Procedure. 1096 01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:58,066 He started at the USPTO in 2005, working five years 1097 01:00:58,066 --> 01:01:02,033 as a trademark examining attorney before becoming a Legal Policy staff attorney. 1098 01:01:02,766 --> 01:01:06,066 His current responsibilities as Senior Trademark Legal Policy Advisor 1099 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,300 include managing the work of Legal Policy staff attorneys 1100 01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:12,200 and developing trademark examination policy guidance. 1101 01:01:12,666 --> 01:01:16,633 He also provides counsel on rulemaking and various trademark legal policy topics, 1102 01:01:16,866 --> 01:01:19,333 including specimens of use, nontraditional marks, 1103 01:01:19,466 --> 01:01:22,633 lawful use in commerce, geographic certification marks, practice 1104 01:01:22,633 --> 01:01:26,100 before the USPTO, and statutorily protected matter. 1105 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,766 In addition, Bob serves as a liaison to the USPTO's Office of Enrollment 1106 01:01:30,766 --> 01:01:32,466 and Discipline and assists 1107 01:01:32,466 --> 01:01:36,533 with the enhancement of the USPTO's Trademark Electronic Application System. 1108 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,133 He's a graduate of the University of Miami and Cornell Law School 1109 01:01:40,233 --> 01:01:43,700 and is a member of the bars of New York and the District of Columbia. 1110 01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:47,300 So as you can tell folks, you are in really great hands. 1111 01:01:47,500 --> 01:01:49,766 These are two people who really know what they're talking about. 1112 01:01:50,133 --> 01:01:53,466 The experts in the field. So I'm going to turn it back to you two 1113 01:01:53,466 --> 01:01:57,300 and let's hear some good answers to some of these good questions. 1114 01:01:59,866 --> 01:02:04,300 -Okay. And I'm sorry I couldn't get to a lot of the questions 1115 01:02:04,300 --> 01:02:06,266 as we were going through, but it was difficult 1116 01:02:06,266 --> 01:02:08,800 to stay on track and address the questions at the same time. 1117 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,133 But we will turn to those now. 1118 01:02:12,266 --> 01:02:14,966 The first question that we got is, is there a process for a third party 1119 01:02:14,966 --> 01:02:18,600 to report a registration which should be audited? 1120 01:02:20,866 --> 01:02:25,733 The - everybody wants to report somebody else's bad guy work, 1121 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,333 and that can be a little tough because you never know 1122 01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:32,900 if it's a real or just somebody trying to harass somebody else. 1123 01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:35,566 So we do have to be careful about the various inputs 1124 01:02:36,733 --> 01:02:38,466 that that we we get. 1125 01:02:38,466 --> 01:02:43,533 Now, with regard to a registration where, 1126 01:02:45,333 --> 01:02:47,400 you know, because the registration has been issued 1127 01:02:47,633 --> 01:02:51,033 and and we're not in a position to to, 1128 01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,166 you know, look into that registration at this point, we would direct you 1129 01:02:55,166 --> 01:02:59,400 to the expungement or reexamination proceedings that we will be implementing 1130 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,033 December 27th or actually should be December 18th. 1131 01:03:03,066 --> 01:03:05,566 Well, we'll have to see what the date is at that point. 1132 01:03:06,300 --> 01:03:09,533 But if you find that there is a registration 1133 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,900 where you believe that there is evidence of nonuse 1134 01:03:12,900 --> 01:03:16,600 and you can find that evidence of nonuse and you have a prima facie case of nonuse, 1135 01:03:16,933 --> 01:03:21,333 then we urge you to use that proceeding to take to take an action 1136 01:03:21,333 --> 01:03:24,900 against that. That then, of course, gives that information to us. 1137 01:03:25,366 --> 01:03:27,866 We look to see if you've made a prima facie case. 1138 01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:31,833 And if you have made a prima facie case, then we will ask the registrant 1139 01:03:32,566 --> 01:03:33,933 to provide proof of use. 1140 01:03:33,933 --> 01:03:38,300 So that would be the mechanism by which you would address one of these. 1141 01:03:38,833 --> 01:03:42,066 The proof of use audit program is is not something 1142 01:03:42,066 --> 01:03:45,000 that third parties can opine on or give us 1143 01:03:46,133 --> 01:03:48,933 a - ping us to to audit somebody. 1144 01:03:48,933 --> 01:03:50,433 That's not how the program works. 1145 01:03:50,433 --> 01:03:53,133 And I think you can appreciate that it could be used for harassment 1146 01:03:53,566 --> 01:03:55,500 if we were to allow it to be used that way. 1147 01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:57,733 So I appreciate the question, but definitely I think 1148 01:03:57,733 --> 01:04:00,433 these reexamination proceedings will be helpful in that regard. 1149 01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:05,900 OK, next question. 1150 01:04:08,533 --> 01:04:10,366 -Before we get to the next one. 1151 01:04:10,366 --> 01:04:12,333 -Yeah. Oh, go ahead. 1152 01:04:12,333 --> 01:04:16,733 -Yeah, we could, but before we get to that, there was a related question about 1153 01:04:16,733 --> 01:04:22,333 whether the letter of protest procedure could be used for registration. And the answer is "No." 1154 01:04:23,500 --> 01:04:27,700 That is for pre-registration, um, during pendency of the application 1155 01:04:28,300 --> 01:04:33,433 up until 30 days after its published for oppoaition. So, no. And 1156 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,533 under current audit procedures, uh, 1157 01:04:41,833 --> 01:04:43,700 the audit is done on a random basis 1158 01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:49,166 based on criteria of being met relating to the goods and services. 1159 01:04:50,566 --> 01:04:54,133 -Right now, Bob, you were doing that stuttering thing, 1160 01:04:54,133 --> 01:04:59,233 your connection isn't great, so I know you love that. 1161 01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:04,666 -I do. -Okay. For those who didn't catch all that, because you're not a robot, 1162 01:05:05,466 --> 01:05:09,400 the uh, the the issue is a letter of protest preceding 1163 01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,966 is only available for applications, is not available for registrations. 1164 01:05:14,900 --> 01:05:18,333 And so, you know, we're not we're not going to open up a registration 1165 01:05:18,333 --> 01:05:19,533 because a letter of protest was filed, 1166 01:05:19,533 --> 01:05:21,933 because that's not what the proceeding is for. 1167 01:05:21,933 --> 01:05:24,933 So, uh, that was that was the long and short of of what 1168 01:05:25,233 --> 01:05:29,633 what Bob said. Okay. Um. 1169 01:05:31,966 --> 01:05:37,233 Let's see. With regard to the question about letters of protest 1170 01:05:37,233 --> 01:05:40,266 and what is an example of good evidence of nonuse of a mark, 1171 01:05:40,566 --> 01:05:44,466 I'm going to direct you to the letter of protest practice tip page. 1172 01:05:44,466 --> 01:05:46,366 I think you'll find some really good information there. 1173 01:05:46,366 --> 01:05:48,600 I don't really want to get into, 1174 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,133 you know, getting pinned down into what is good evidence of nonuse 1175 01:05:51,133 --> 01:05:53,066 and what is not good evidence of nonuse at this stage. 1176 01:05:53,066 --> 01:05:54,233 I don't think that that's 1177 01:05:55,266 --> 01:05:57,400 probably a good use on on this recording. 1178 01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:01,066 So please go to the letter of protest practice tip page 1179 01:06:01,766 --> 01:06:06,600 to find some some good information about that. And let's see. 1180 01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:10,500 Can you provide a link to the inspector general report 1181 01:06:10,900 --> 01:06:12,733 that I mentioned several times? 1182 01:06:12,733 --> 01:06:15,566 Uh, sure. I believe that it was on the 1183 01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:19,033 of the Department of Commerce Office of the Inspector General's page. 1184 01:06:19,933 --> 01:06:22,166 So that's not something that we wrote. 1185 01:06:22,733 --> 01:06:25,366 It's something that we have responded to. 1186 01:06:25,366 --> 01:06:29,333 But I would note that that report was issued based on, um, 1187 01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,300 a sample of applications that the auditors 1188 01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:35,766 looked at dating back to 2019. 1189 01:06:36,433 --> 01:06:39,000 And as you can can recognize from 1190 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,033 this talk that we have done a whole lot of work 1191 01:06:42,033 --> 01:06:46,366 since 2019 to address the issue that were raised in the report. 1192 01:06:46,633 --> 01:06:48,400 And certainly, as I also said, 1193 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,966 it is a machine, a large machine that we're trying to get moving. 1194 01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:56,500 And it's, uh, it's certainly slow to ramp up and rev up. 1195 01:06:57,066 --> 01:07:00,000 And so we're certainly trying to 1196 01:07:00,166 --> 01:07:03,500 to move as quickly as we can and devote a lot of resources to it. 1197 01:07:04,066 --> 01:07:07,066 But we're, uh, it takes some time to get there. 1198 01:07:07,633 --> 01:07:12,466 So while we appreciate the the issues that the Inspector General raised for us 1199 01:07:12,466 --> 01:07:15,466 to look at, we've been looking at those for a very long time. 1200 01:07:15,900 --> 01:07:19,566 And we think we have found some good ways forward to address those issues 1201 01:07:19,766 --> 01:07:20,866 that we've been doing 1202 01:07:20,866 --> 01:07:24,466 as you can see from from my timeline that we've we've done this for a long time. 1203 01:07:25,633 --> 01:07:33,766 Okay. Um. Next question is, does the USPTO consider 1204 01:07:33,766 --> 01:07:37,066 that the attorneys who are involved in fraudulent fine - filings 1205 01:07:37,866 --> 01:07:40,300 might, may also be deceived by the applicant? 1206 01:07:40,300 --> 01:07:42,433 In other words, simply because an attorney is involved 1207 01:07:42,433 --> 01:07:44,966 in a maintenance filing in which it is determined 1208 01:07:44,966 --> 01:07:48,366 there is an improper or fraudulent specimen, does that mean the attorney 1209 01:07:48,366 --> 01:07:52,266 is complicit with the applicant in intending to deceive the USPTO? 1210 01:07:54,100 --> 01:07:58,166 In addition, problems with use and what can be claimed as use in 1211 01:07:58,166 --> 01:07:59,200 commerce can also be caused 1212 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,800 by the applicant's failure to understand what proper use is, 1213 01:08:02,333 --> 01:08:04,966 despite being properly instructed by their counsel as to 1214 01:08:04,966 --> 01:08:08,366 what type of use is proper to support a trademark maintenace filing. 1215 01:08:09,566 --> 01:08:11,633 Where should we as practitioners 1216 01:08:11,633 --> 01:08:15,566 report the fraudulent solicitations our clients receive? 1217 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,366 OK, so there's two different issues here. 1218 01:08:17,366 --> 01:08:20,733 The first one is a concern that an attorney 1219 01:08:20,966 --> 01:08:23,700 is not being told the truth by the applicant, 1220 01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:29,100 and therefore then the attorney might not be complicit. Well, certainly 1221 01:08:30,700 --> 01:08:32,333 that is something that 1222 01:08:32,333 --> 01:08:35,866 if an attorney was to be, you know, investigated 1223 01:08:35,866 --> 01:08:40,600 by OED, if a grievance were filed or if a referral came from us over to OED, 1224 01:08:41,100 --> 01:08:44,566 that would certainly come out in the conversations with OED. 1225 01:08:44,566 --> 01:08:47,300 So I certainly don't want - 1226 01:08:47,300 --> 01:08:48,233 we understand that. 1227 01:08:48,233 --> 01:08:51,300 That's why there's an investigation process that that is behind this. 1228 01:08:52,233 --> 01:08:54,600 And certainly we do understand that applicants 1229 01:08:54,966 --> 01:08:58,000 many times fail to understand proper use 1230 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,000 and then give you - there's only so much that you as an attorney can do. 1231 01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,366 We would like to see, you know, best practices out in the marketplace. 1232 01:09:05,366 --> 01:09:08,000 And we we do believe that there there are best practices. 1233 01:09:08,466 --> 01:09:11,333 We would love to see best practices more widely used 1234 01:09:11,933 --> 01:09:14,400 by more attorneys who are practicing before us 1235 01:09:14,900 --> 01:09:19,633 in terms of educating applicants about what use is and then and 1236 01:09:20,066 --> 01:09:24,466 and certainly ensuring that the mark is in use on all of the goods 1237 01:09:24,466 --> 01:09:28,533 and services in maintenance filing or in an application before it's filed. 1238 01:09:30,700 --> 01:09:33,566 Bob, are you still connecting? -I'm back. 1239 01:09:33,900 --> 01:09:35,666 Comms checking me. 1240 01:09:35,666 --> 01:09:36,800 -Oh, that's good. 1241 01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,966 -Okay. -Okay, great. You're good. All right. 1242 01:09:39,966 --> 01:09:43,466 Anything you want to say on that? 1243 01:09:43,466 --> 01:09:46,133 -Yeah, I think and I don't know if you touched on it, but 1244 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,033 under the rules of professional conduct, 1245 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,166 attorneys practicing before us have certain duties as to due 1246 01:09:54,166 --> 01:09:58,766 diligence and reasonable investigation and confirming use of 1247 01:09:59,766 --> 01:10:00,866 the goods and services. 1248 01:10:00,866 --> 01:10:03,500 So, again, I think you alluded to this. 1249 01:10:04,100 --> 01:10:05,900 OED would be looking into that. 1250 01:10:05,900 --> 01:10:09,066 If they think there might be 1251 01:10:09,066 --> 01:10:11,666 some violation of those rules. -Yep. 1252 01:10:13,233 --> 01:10:15,666 Um, okay, where should we as practitioners report 1253 01:10:15,666 --> 01:10:18,266 the fraudulent solicitations our clients received? 1254 01:10:19,100 --> 01:10:21,433 Is there any way to track what happens to a fraudulent solicit - 1255 01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:24,200 solicitation after it's reported to the USPTO? 1256 01:10:24,933 --> 01:10:27,033 Um, okay. So two different issues here. 1257 01:10:27,833 --> 01:10:31,433 Um, we are collecting reports from customers, 1258 01:10:31,433 --> 01:10:35,133 including practitioners, of uh examples of solicitations, 1259 01:10:35,433 --> 01:10:37,366 uh, that customers are getting that 1260 01:10:37,366 --> 01:10:39,366 are considered to be misleading by the customer. 1261 01:10:39,366 --> 01:10:41,533 We will post those examples on our website. 1262 01:10:42,066 --> 01:10:43,233 If we already have an example, 1263 01:10:43,233 --> 01:10:45,600 then we're not going to post your example, but we certainly will do that. 1264 01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:49,733 So send those to TMScams@uspto.gov. 1265 01:10:49,766 --> 01:10:52,933 Repeat: TMScams@uspto.gov. 1266 01:10:53,733 --> 01:10:57,466 Okay, so what are we doing with those fraudulent solicitations? Okay. 1267 01:10:58,366 --> 01:11:00,800 We are not a law enforcement agency. 1268 01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:05,700 We do not have a mandate to investigate criminal behavior or these solicitations 1269 01:11:05,700 --> 01:11:10,300 or to figure out whether a particular solicitation has crossed the line. 1270 01:11:10,733 --> 01:11:14,966 We only can deal with the, you know, to the effect to 1271 01:11:15,166 --> 01:11:18,866 to the extent that an application is at issue or registration 1272 01:11:18,866 --> 01:11:21,100 is at issued, that's what's before us. 1273 01:11:21,100 --> 01:11:23,433 And so that's what we can we can work on. 1274 01:11:23,433 --> 01:11:26,800 Now, that said, we're not powerless here. 1275 01:11:27,033 --> 01:11:29,600 We are posting these things on our website. 1276 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,333 We are, you know, highlighting these for law enforcement. 1277 01:11:34,166 --> 01:11:38,533 And certainly we're trying to make folks aware of - that 1278 01:11:38,533 --> 01:11:39,866 these solicitations are out there. 1279 01:11:39,866 --> 01:11:42,866 You can go on our website and see all the information that we've provided. 1280 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,700 It's a scourge and it's it's happening globally. 1281 01:11:46,700 --> 01:11:52,566 These are global schemes to to mislead folks as to what they need to do. 1282 01:11:52,766 --> 01:11:55,600 They have to get on some sort of global database and pay 1283 01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:58,066 an enormous fee to get on that. No, you don't need to do that. 1284 01:11:58,266 --> 01:12:01,900 So we want to make sure that our customers are aware that these are not necessary. 1285 01:12:01,966 --> 01:12:04,066 You really don't need to pay these fees. 1286 01:12:04,466 --> 01:12:07,733 Um, and we're trying to do that, but we have limited resources 1287 01:12:07,733 --> 01:12:11,666 and we don't have the the mission or the mandate to actually, you know, go 1288 01:12:11,666 --> 01:12:14,766 after what appears to be criminal fraud or mail fraud. 1289 01:12:14,766 --> 01:12:16,900 And as you saw in the case of the Suhorukovs case. 1290 01:12:16,900 --> 01:12:21,066 So we do refer these issues to law enforcement to look into. 1291 01:12:21,666 --> 01:12:22,533 So to the extent 1292 01:12:22,533 --> 01:12:25,500 that it's it's a large scheme like you saw with the Suhorukovs case, 1293 01:12:25,966 --> 01:12:28,766 we work with law enforcement to provide whatever information we can 1294 01:12:29,366 --> 01:12:32,166 to make sure that they have what they need to go forward with the prosecution. 1295 01:12:32,166 --> 01:12:33,633 And you can see that it was successful. 1296 01:12:33,633 --> 01:12:35,466 We would love to see more of these. 1297 01:12:35,466 --> 01:12:37,900 And so we are having those conversations where we can. 1298 01:12:38,433 --> 01:12:41,933 But internally, if the application isn't before us, that's at issue, 1299 01:12:42,100 --> 01:12:44,833 there's limited, you know, things that we can do on that. 1300 01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:46,833 Anything you want to add on that, Bob? 1301 01:12:47,900 --> 01:12:50,366 -No, that covers it. -Okey dokey. 1302 01:12:53,833 --> 01:12:56,700 Okay. Let's see. 1303 01:12:59,866 --> 01:13:02,500 Pardon me while I read this very long question, I apologize. 1304 01:13:02,733 --> 01:13:04,100 Sorry about that. 1305 01:13:13,933 --> 01:13:18,766 Okay. Um, there's a uh, 1306 01:13:19,766 --> 01:13:22,866 I think it's a question, but I'm not sure. Have or 1307 01:13:22,933 --> 01:13:27,766 will you fix the glitch where examiners cannot tell when the filer of the change 1308 01:13:27,766 --> 01:13:31,366 of domicile address clicks the check box to keep the address private? 1309 01:13:32,433 --> 01:13:38,366 Um. And there's a whole lot of information here. Wait, it just moved. 1310 01:13:39,833 --> 01:13:41,500 -I checked with a couple. 1311 01:13:41,500 --> 01:13:45,066 I saw that question, I checked with a couple of subject matter experts on it. 1312 01:13:45,366 --> 01:13:46,833 There shouldn't be a glitch. 1313 01:13:46,833 --> 01:13:49,966 There might have been some confusion when we implemented 1314 01:13:49,966 --> 01:13:52,933 that new mask domicile procedure. 1315 01:13:53,033 --> 01:13:56,933 So it may have been an awareness issue on behalf of the examining attorneys. 1316 01:13:59,333 --> 01:14:01,800 So if it's hidden from view publicly, the examining attorney 1317 01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,200 should still be able to see it in their internal systems in a file wrapper. 1318 01:14:06,033 --> 01:14:07,433 There should be no glitch. 1319 01:14:07,433 --> 01:14:10,033 But to the extent 1320 01:14:10,033 --> 01:14:15,566 the questioner wants to follow up on that, well, we'll reach out to you 1321 01:14:15,900 --> 01:14:21,500 through the email we received. -Yeah. Okay. 1322 01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:25,600 If a trademark owner uses an outside law firm 1323 01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:29,300 but wants to receive correspondence copy from the USPTO on its matters, 1324 01:14:29,633 --> 01:14:35,033 will the trademark owner be required to have a USPTO.gov account. 1325 01:14:37,966 --> 01:14:39,900 So the question is, Bob, 1326 01:14:39,900 --> 01:14:43,433 tell me if I'm wrong, is the question is, is can the trademark owner be - 1327 01:14:44,366 --> 01:14:46,766 have a correspondence email address in the record? 1328 01:14:47,333 --> 01:14:50,166 And if they have that, do they have to have a USPTO.gov account? 1329 01:14:52,066 --> 01:14:55,800 -Under under our current plans, under our current plans, if it's a CC 1330 01:14:56,466 --> 01:15:01,600 address, they can receive correspondence. The myUSPTO account and ID 1331 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,266 verification are for access to forms and records. 1332 01:15:06,100 --> 01:15:09,833 So as we're planning now, 1333 01:15:10,066 --> 01:15:13,700 there's no requirement for that CC address 1334 01:15:13,700 --> 01:15:17,433 to also have a USPTO.gov account. 1335 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,100 But again, we are currently planning how all that's going to go, 1336 01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:23,766 so no commitments on that one. -Right. 1337 01:15:24,666 --> 01:15:29,500 But if the attorney representation or recognition ended 1338 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,500 and the trademark owner wanted to file a TEAS document, 1339 01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:35,033 a maintenance document or something like that, yes, 1340 01:15:35,033 --> 01:15:37,866 you would have to have a USPTO.gov account at that point. 1341 01:15:38,366 --> 01:15:40,566 But if you're represented, you don't have to. 1342 01:15:40,566 --> 01:15:43,433 But I suspect the questioner knows that. 1343 01:15:43,433 --> 01:15:45,866 Is the letter of protest to be used for post-registration challenge? 1344 01:15:45,966 --> 01:15:48,466 No, we addressed that. Okay. 1345 01:15:48,466 --> 01:15:52,900 Um. Okay. Is the new identity - this is about log in phase two. 1346 01:15:53,566 --> 01:15:57,100 Is the new identity protection program, its identity protection - 1347 01:15:58,233 --> 01:16:02,066 identity verification program going to require Social Security numbers? 1348 01:16:02,100 --> 01:16:05,933 Yes, many of us are very careful to protect our Social Security numbers 1349 01:16:05,933 --> 01:16:08,200 given rampant identity theft. Agreed. 1350 01:16:09,133 --> 01:16:11,933 And certainly you will be hearing more and more about log in 1351 01:16:11,933 --> 01:16:15,266 phase two identity verification as we move forward. 1352 01:16:15,733 --> 01:16:18,700 Certainly aware of the Social Security number concern. 1353 01:16:20,766 --> 01:16:21,966 That is why we're partnering with ID.me. 1354 01:16:21,966 --> 01:16:28,133 It is a vendor that has many programs with government agencies: 1355 01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:33,300 IRS, Social Security, and the Veterans Affairs, I think. 1356 01:16:34,033 --> 01:16:36,233 And they - we do not hold the data. 1357 01:16:36,233 --> 01:16:37,766 They hold the data. 1358 01:16:37,766 --> 01:16:41,033 And you can actually have it after it's been used to verify your account, 1359 01:16:41,566 --> 01:16:45,733 you can actually have the data purged and they will not hold it anymore. 1360 01:16:46,033 --> 01:16:49,033 So I'm not the expert in this. This 1361 01:16:50,066 --> 01:16:52,166 is just part of our register protection initiatives. 1362 01:16:52,166 --> 01:16:54,166 And I wanted to go through those those slowly today. 1363 01:16:54,166 --> 01:16:57,233 But I think as you go forward, as we move forward 1364 01:16:57,233 --> 01:16:59,833 with phase two, you'll be hearing more and more information about this. 1365 01:17:00,466 --> 01:17:02,133 And you will certainly have the opportunity 1366 01:17:02,133 --> 01:17:05,966 to let us know what you think when you hear more 1367 01:17:05,966 --> 01:17:12,600 about how ID.me is going to protect the PII that they that they collect and hold 1368 01:17:12,966 --> 01:17:15,233 and then eventually purge, 1369 01:17:16,333 --> 01:17:18,100 uh, if you choose that. 1370 01:17:18,100 --> 01:17:22,200 So stay tuned on log in phase two, we're at early stages now. 1371 01:17:23,566 --> 01:17:26,400 Would the office consider a trademark registration bar exam 1372 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:30,933 like the patent bar to control combat, to combat bad actors and - Yes. 1373 01:17:32,033 --> 01:17:36,400 No, not yet. Oh, it would require a statutory change 1374 01:17:37,266 --> 01:17:40,766 to Section five of the Administrative Procedures Act? No. 1375 01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:45,300 It needs - we would need a statute change, uh, to the extent we want it to move 1376 01:17:45,300 --> 01:17:49,466 forward with creating a trademark bar like the patent side has, 1377 01:17:49,466 --> 01:17:54,066 you'll hear about it, um, because it would require Congress to act, to intervene. 1378 01:17:54,066 --> 01:17:56,133 But if more and more people are interested 1379 01:17:56,133 --> 01:17:58,266 in that, we'd like to hear more about it. 1380 01:17:58,266 --> 01:18:02,400 Um, if there is a lot of support for that, certainly it seems like 1381 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:03,566 it would be very helpful 1382 01:18:03,566 --> 01:18:06,766 to regulate attorney conduct before us or misconduct, I should say. 1383 01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,333 And it's something I'm paying attention to. 1384 01:18:09,333 --> 01:18:12,066 So if you all are interested, let us know. 1385 01:18:14,300 --> 01:18:16,366 All right. Oh, I 1386 01:18:16,633 --> 01:18:19,566 think Allison Ricketts must be on the line. 1387 01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,933 Will notice pleading be the standard for instituting a new Section 1388 01:18:23,933 --> 01:18:28,100 14 cancelation proceeding on the basis that the mark has never been used 1389 01:18:28,100 --> 01:18:30,500 on some or all of the goods and services. In other words, 1390 01:18:31,133 --> 01:18:33,500 does this proceeding, 1391 01:18:33,500 --> 01:18:34,566 I guess that's an expungement 1392 01:18:34,566 --> 01:18:38,633 proceeding before the Board, require documentary evidence of nonuse 1393 01:18:38,633 --> 01:18:42,066 or is that evidence required only for the petition to the Commissioner 1394 01:18:42,066 --> 01:18:45,866 procedure? And let's see. 1395 01:18:47,866 --> 01:18:50,566 The answer is it depends. 1396 01:18:50,566 --> 01:18:52,866 And I will plead a lot of ignorance to this. 1397 01:18:52,966 --> 01:18:57,100 So I might have to have a conversation offline with the person who asked the question. 1398 01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,366 Um uh, let's see. 1399 01:19:00,366 --> 01:19:02,033 Pleading at the Board is always subject 1400 01:19:02,033 --> 01:19:04,166 to the governing principles for notice pleading. 1401 01:19:04,166 --> 01:19:08,000 Um, that said, we certainly have some claims that require more facts 1402 01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:09,666 to be alleged to constitute sufficient notice pleading. 1403 01:19:09,666 --> 01:19:14,000 For example, pleading dilution and fraud claims require some specificity. 1404 01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,233 Uh, this is really a matter of first impression, 1405 01:19:17,233 --> 01:19:19,333 so I don't think we're going to be able to answer that right now, 1406 01:19:19,966 --> 01:19:22,766 but I think a further follow up conversation with the questioner, 1407 01:19:23,066 --> 01:19:26,900 we're we're happy to do that with somebody a lot more qualified 1408 01:19:26,900 --> 01:19:28,466 than I am to to speak to that issue. 1409 01:19:29,666 --> 01:19:32,500 Maybe Bob is, but I. I don't know. 1410 01:19:33,900 --> 01:19:37,800 -No, I was going to suggest that we want to consult the TTAB on that one. 1411 01:19:38,333 --> 01:19:40,600 -Yeah, I think that's right. 1412 01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,133 When are these new procedures for expungement reexamination 1413 01:19:43,133 --> 01:19:47,100 available? December, late December. Look for them. 1414 01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,766 You'll certainly hear about it. We'll be, I will be 1415 01:19:49,766 --> 01:19:54,200 very excited to get these launched and ready for you all to use. 1416 01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:58,666 So at the end of this year, you should be looking to file one of those petitions 1417 01:19:58,833 --> 01:20:05,433 or file an expungement proceeding before the Board. Let's see. 1418 01:20:09,266 --> 01:20:11,033 Using Section 7 to - 1419 01:20:11,033 --> 01:20:14,266 the Section 7 amendment procedure to delete goods are encouraged. 1420 01:20:14,666 --> 01:20:17,300 Yes, I am encouraging you to use that, but 1421 01:20:17,300 --> 01:20:20,266 I filed one in February to correct a typo in the owner's name, 1422 01:20:20,933 --> 01:20:23,400 and I still have not received any news of acceptance. 1423 01:20:23,700 --> 01:20:26,466 How fast do you anticipate Section 7 for deletions to 1424 01:20:26,466 --> 01:20:27,700 be processed in the future? 1425 01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,366 Uh, that's a good question. 1426 01:20:31,466 --> 01:20:35,366 And I will say, I can't really answer that right right now, 1427 01:20:35,833 --> 01:20:37,933 but I expect them to be 1428 01:20:39,266 --> 01:20:41,066 processed very quickly. 1429 01:20:41,066 --> 01:20:44,366 Now, whether that can happen based on workload, we'll have to see. 1430 01:20:44,766 --> 01:20:48,266 But I will say that if a Section 7 amendment is filed 1431 01:20:48,266 --> 01:20:52,100 during an expungement or reexamination proceeding, we're going to move on that 1432 01:20:52,100 --> 01:20:53,900 really fast, because that will obviously 1433 01:20:53,900 --> 01:20:56,100 moot the proceeding and we want that to happen. 1434 01:20:56,100 --> 01:20:59,066 So those will more than likely go to the front of the line in order 1435 01:20:59,066 --> 01:21:02,400 to make sure that we get the expungement and reexamination 1436 01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:05,800 proceeding over as quickly as possible if if the Section 7 would moot it. 1437 01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:07,766 So we certainly are looking at that. 1438 01:21:07,766 --> 01:21:10,200 And I'm sorry that it's taking so long 1439 01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:13,666 on the Section 7, but we are we're working on that. 1440 01:21:14,933 --> 01:21:18,766 -Yeah. Regular regular post-registration 1441 01:21:19,866 --> 01:21:24,200 review of Section 7s are at about four months pendency right now. 1442 01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:26,966 So February should have been reviewed by now. 1443 01:21:26,966 --> 01:21:30,066 So we might need to follow up with that that questioner 1444 01:21:32,033 --> 01:21:34,300 to get some more facts. -We can do that. 1445 01:21:34,833 --> 01:21:37,866 Craig has the email so we can do that. Yep. Okay. 1446 01:21:38,933 --> 01:21:42,366 Can you elaborate on the role that the task force has when coordinating 1447 01:21:42,366 --> 01:21:44,033 with the Department of Justice? 1448 01:21:44,033 --> 01:21:47,300 Is there an ongoing role after matters are referred to DOJ 1449 01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:50,900 or is it a clean pass off? 1450 01:21:51,633 --> 01:21:54,933 A little bit of both. 1451 01:21:56,066 --> 01:22:01,866 Um, generally, if it goes to OED or it goes to Department of Justice, 1452 01:22:02,700 --> 01:22:04,766 we don't hear anything. Um. 1453 01:22:06,300 --> 01:22:08,533 OED is confidential, so we really don't hear anything. 1454 01:22:09,166 --> 01:22:12,300 DOJ, if they need something from us, if they need more information, 1455 01:22:12,766 --> 01:22:15,366 we're asked to provide it, but we're not asked why, 1456 01:22:15,366 --> 01:22:16,800 and we can't really ask any questions. 1457 01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:19,166 So it's the - if they need more from us, we give it. 1458 01:22:19,666 --> 01:22:20,966 But they're not sharing, 1459 01:22:20,966 --> 01:22:23,166 they're not sharing their investigation with us for the most part. 1460 01:22:23,266 --> 01:22:24,000 Is that fair, Bob? 1461 01:22:25,066 --> 01:22:31,000 -Yes. -OK. If we see an owner address that appears to be a mail drop, 1462 01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:34,266 can we pass that information along TMFeedback 1463 01:22:34,733 --> 01:22:37,400 or is it necessary to file a letter of protest? 1464 01:22:39,966 --> 01:22:41,100 You know what, I you know, 1465 01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:44,966 I think we are now running a program that's going to catch those. 1466 01:22:45,666 --> 01:22:50,500 We are running all addresses against the USPS database 1467 01:22:51,766 --> 01:22:55,466 and it identifies which are mail drops and commercial mail receiving agencies. 1468 01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:58,500 So I, you know, we should catch it. 1469 01:22:59,166 --> 01:23:03,200 We will put a note in the file for the examiner to take an action on that. 1470 01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,966 And they can't move the application forward until they do. 1471 01:23:06,966 --> 01:23:09,433 So the examiner will catch that. 1472 01:23:09,766 --> 01:23:13,100 So I think it would be a redundancy if you all were to provide 1473 01:23:13,100 --> 01:23:14,500 us that information as well. 1474 01:23:15,500 --> 01:23:17,233 If it's really bothering you, 1475 01:23:17,233 --> 01:23:20,200 send it to TMScams@uspto.gov. 1476 01:23:21,433 --> 01:23:23,066 And we'll take a look. 1477 01:23:23,066 --> 01:23:25,466 But again, I think it's probably I think we're covered 1478 01:23:25,466 --> 01:23:28,466 because we've automated that procedure. 1479 01:23:32,166 --> 01:23:34,600 ID verification. 1480 01:23:34,700 --> 01:23:37,800 How are they - oh, another hard question that I - 1481 01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,733 Wow, OK. How will this work if a filer is the secretary? 1482 01:23:42,466 --> 01:23:46,666 Often the secretary prepares the filing for execution by attorney or client. 1483 01:23:47,566 --> 01:23:50,766 Um, perhaps I'm not entirely understanding this new implementation. 1484 01:23:50,933 --> 01:23:51,933 You and me both. 1485 01:23:51,933 --> 01:23:55,466 OK, so this is phase three of log in. 1486 01:23:55,700 --> 01:23:57,033 We're not there yet. 1487 01:23:57,033 --> 01:24:02,533 That is going to be a ways out. Um, so hold on. 1488 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:06,900 And certainly, you know, we're we're we're good about, uh, putting out, 1489 01:24:06,933 --> 01:24:09,600 uh, communications on these things as we roll out these initiatives. 1490 01:24:10,066 --> 01:24:15,000 We are planning on doing a webinar much like this one, uh, next summer, 1491 01:24:15,466 --> 01:24:20,366 uh, on log in. And on phase two and whatever phase we're at at that point. 1492 01:24:20,366 --> 01:24:24,200 And if we have more information about phase three, we will share it. So, 1493 01:24:24,300 --> 01:24:28,833 you know, at this stage, it's premature for us to to share that information 1494 01:24:30,266 --> 01:24:32,200 because we don't have it all figured out yet, 1495 01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,766 but we're certainly working on it, and we'll share that with you 1496 01:24:34,766 --> 01:24:37,566 in a webinar, hopefully it's not going to be me telling you about it. 1497 01:24:38,166 --> 01:24:41,366 Hopefully it'll be somebody who's actually integral during that process. 1498 01:24:41,933 --> 01:24:45,366 Um, although if you really want me, I can come back, 1499 01:24:45,366 --> 01:24:48,133 but I don't really have to do that. Okay. 1500 01:24:48,866 --> 01:24:52,733 Uh, somebody else is asking about Section 7. 1501 01:24:53,866 --> 01:24:55,433 Uh, I think we answered that question. 1502 01:24:55,433 --> 01:24:56,500 Yes, we're looking to shorten it, 1503 01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:59,533 shorten the processing time if a Section 7 is filed. 1504 01:25:00,166 --> 01:25:04,066 Certainly we you know, if if we're encouraging you to use that process 1505 01:25:04,066 --> 01:25:07,400 in order to delete goods and services so that you don't get caught up in, uh, 1506 01:25:07,466 --> 01:25:10,033 an expungement or reexamination, then we darn well need to 1507 01:25:10,166 --> 01:25:13,766 to move those forward faster. So we will we will definitely look to do that. 1508 01:25:13,766 --> 01:25:15,066 Thank you for the question. 1509 01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:20,100 For the order to show-cause sanctions, 1510 01:25:20,100 --> 01:25:25,166 what is the USPTO timeline in issuing a resolution? Um. 1511 01:25:28,666 --> 01:25:29,900 OK, I guess I can share this. 1512 01:25:29,900 --> 01:25:33,333 The reason for the question is that there there is a trademark application 1513 01:25:33,333 --> 01:25:34,966 that my client wants to oppose, 1514 01:25:34,966 --> 01:25:37,300 and the application has been withdrawn from publication. 1515 01:25:37,300 --> 01:25:39,866 We are currently monitoring the status of this application. 1516 01:25:40,366 --> 01:25:43,666 Perhaps an explanation of the USPTO process in analyzing the order 1517 01:25:43,666 --> 01:25:45,866 to show-cause and reviewing the responses would be helpful. 1518 01:25:46,166 --> 01:25:49,466 And how transparent is the process? 1519 01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:56,066 Okay. Um. We, okay, 1520 01:25:57,866 --> 01:25:59,600 we are working on it. 1521 01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:04,633 We are developing the processes that we need, we are garnering 1522 01:26:04,633 --> 01:26:10,333 the resources that we need to move forward more quickly with investigations, 1523 01:26:11,233 --> 01:26:13,433 with show-cause orders and with final orders. 1524 01:26:13,833 --> 01:26:17,933 We would love to be ready to go and issue all these things all at once 1525 01:26:17,933 --> 01:26:18,966 and move these things through 1526 01:26:18,966 --> 01:26:21,966 so that you can get stuff that you're watching off the register. 1527 01:26:22,633 --> 01:26:24,833 We are doing the best we can 1528 01:26:24,833 --> 01:26:27,500 to try to move this new process forward as quickly as we can. 1529 01:26:28,466 --> 01:26:30,266 We're working on website content. 1530 01:26:30,266 --> 01:26:32,933 We're trying to make it more transparent. 1531 01:26:32,933 --> 01:26:34,066 But certainly because this 1532 01:26:34,066 --> 01:26:36,333 is investigation, there's not a whole lot we can share. 1533 01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:41,000 We are looking to to implement various prosecution 1534 01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:45,466 history entries in TSDR that would reflect what is happening to 1535 01:26:45,466 --> 01:26:48,100 an application if it's just sitting there and it's not moving, 1536 01:26:48,866 --> 01:26:51,866 we're we're going to put prosecution history entries in there 1537 01:26:51,866 --> 01:26:54,200 indicating that it's been suspended 1538 01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:56,633 pending an administrative decision on an investigation. 1539 01:26:56,866 --> 01:27:00,500 If it's been, you know, if a show-cause order has been issued, that sort of thing. 1540 01:27:00,733 --> 01:27:04,200 So we're trying to create some more transparency in the in the system. 1541 01:27:04,933 --> 01:27:07,766 But as you know, any I.T. change is very difficult. 1542 01:27:08,500 --> 01:27:11,633 And so we're certainly trying to to do that and create 1543 01:27:11,633 --> 01:27:14,700 that transparency for you in the process. 1544 01:27:15,100 --> 01:27:17,133 As for timing, it's a matter of resources. 1545 01:27:17,533 --> 01:27:20,733 So if we are undertaking an investigation and we have 1546 01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,733 thousands of applications that we are, you know, holding and investigating 1547 01:27:26,233 --> 01:27:27,766 and trying to move forward 1548 01:27:27,766 --> 01:27:31,100 into either a show-cause order or release them back into examination. 1549 01:27:31,633 --> 01:27:34,900 So you can appreciate with limited resources that we have, 1550 01:27:34,900 --> 01:27:38,766 that we're working on building up, that we're moving as fast as we can, 1551 01:27:38,766 --> 01:27:41,633 but it is difficult to make sure we have everything in place 1552 01:27:42,300 --> 01:27:44,700 to be able to move these through quickly 1553 01:27:44,700 --> 01:27:47,866 and make sure that any affected applicants have the information that they need 1554 01:27:49,066 --> 01:27:51,300 after a final order has been issued 1555 01:27:52,066 --> 01:27:55,333 on a particular application or group of applications. 1556 01:27:55,333 --> 01:27:58,266 So apologize that we can't give you more information. 1557 01:27:58,966 --> 01:28:00,266 Watch our website. 1558 01:28:00,266 --> 01:28:03,300 Watch TSDR entries, to see what's going on there. 1559 01:28:03,300 --> 01:28:07,500 And as we can move forward with these these changes to to make the proceedings 1560 01:28:07,500 --> 01:28:09,700 more more transparent, we will do that. 1561 01:28:10,433 --> 01:28:11,733 So apologies for that. 1562 01:28:12,733 --> 01:28:15,900 But we are certainly under under - 1563 01:28:18,066 --> 01:28:21,033 developing. We are we are certainly working on developing everything. 1564 01:28:24,066 --> 01:28:28,233 So will the owner domicile addresses 1565 01:28:28,466 --> 01:28:31,666 and the applicant's email address stay masked? 1566 01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,466 This is in cases where a client runs an online business from home 1567 01:28:35,466 --> 01:28:36,566 and maintains a P.O. 1568 01:28:36,566 --> 01:28:39,066 box for their mailing address. 1569 01:28:40,266 --> 01:28:42,966 If it's masked now, it will stay masked. 1570 01:28:43,333 --> 01:28:46,066 I think that's fair. 1571 01:28:46,066 --> 01:28:49,166 Not sure I fully understand the question why it would become unmasked, but OK. 1572 01:28:51,700 --> 01:28:53,033 Can you explain what 1573 01:28:53,033 --> 01:28:56,500 the identity verification phase for USPTO.gov accounts will entail? 1574 01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:59,500 Um, went through that briefly. I'm sorry. 1575 01:28:59,500 --> 01:29:04,500 I had a slide that I had to rush through. Again when when we're ready 1576 01:29:04,500 --> 01:29:07,766 to roll these things out, because right again, we're in beta testing 1577 01:29:08,066 --> 01:29:10,833 and then we will start making the uh optional 1578 01:29:10,833 --> 01:29:14,366 for folks to use the USPTO account of identity verification, 1579 01:29:14,666 --> 01:29:17,300 and then eventually we will make it mandatory. 1580 01:29:18,100 --> 01:29:20,400 And so as we move through these processes, 1581 01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:23,200 you'll hear more and more information about what we're offering. 1582 01:29:23,866 --> 01:29:27,400 But essentially, it is ID.me. If you go to their website, 1583 01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:32,466 you can see what the the process is and we will be providing more information. 1584 01:29:34,666 --> 01:29:38,533 Would the USPTO considering offering a service of giving an advance thumbs up 1585 01:29:38,533 --> 01:29:42,400 or down on specimens before the registrant files the declaration of use? 1586 01:29:44,066 --> 01:29:48,200 Um. Wow. An advisory opinion, 1587 01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:52,166 I'm not sure I think, uh, I think that the answer to that is to. 1588 01:29:53,100 --> 01:29:55,166 I think they mean the SOU, right? 1589 01:29:56,766 --> 01:29:59,866 The SOU stage, Bob? Or would you say that's the application stage? 1590 01:30:01,333 --> 01:30:05,100 -I guess it could be either if they're talking about a specimen of use, but, 1591 01:30:05,100 --> 01:30:08,066 you know, typically we don't provide an advisory opinion. 1592 01:30:09,066 --> 01:30:12,400 Right. If you file your SOU early on 1593 01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:15,466 in the maintenance timeframe 1594 01:30:15,700 --> 01:30:16,433 and then you get a, 1595 01:30:16,433 --> 01:30:20,266 you know, you can come back and fix whatever problems are there, so file early. 1596 01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:23,666 And then lastly, I see Jason's coming on. 1597 01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:26,633 Uh, who do we contact 1598 01:30:26,633 --> 01:30:29,066 when we suspect an attorney is running a filing mill? 1599 01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,966 Um oh, file a grievance at OED@USPTO.gov. 1600 01:30:34,566 --> 01:30:38,466 Uh, and you can also um file, send something to 1601 01:30:38,466 --> 01:30:40,366 TMScams@USPTO.gov. 1602 01:30:40,366 --> 01:30:43,600 You might not get a response, but it will go into um, 1603 01:30:43,700 --> 01:30:46,600 you know, into the queue and we'll, we'll be able to take a look at it. 1604 01:30:48,433 --> 01:30:50,500 -Well we are at four thirty, 1605 01:30:51,033 --> 01:30:54,366 so it's up to you. I mean, if you want to try and knock out 1606 01:30:54,366 --> 01:30:55,433 some of these that are here, 1607 01:30:55,433 --> 01:30:57,833 otherwise we can try and handle them via email. 1608 01:31:01,900 --> 01:31:05,800 -These are pretty, pretty detailed ones. 1609 01:31:06,933 --> 01:31:11,866 Um uh, I don't think we have a - oh wow, they keep coming. 1610 01:31:13,233 --> 01:31:15,833 No, I don't think we're going to be able to handle all those right now. -OK. 1611 01:31:17,266 --> 01:31:19,100 Great. -Well, we'll have to follow up. 1612 01:31:19,100 --> 01:31:20,400 -Great. Well, that sounds good. 1613 01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,733 All right, folks. Well, we got to shut it down then. 1614 01:31:23,266 --> 01:31:25,333 But if you did send in one of those questions, 1615 01:31:25,333 --> 01:31:28,333 especially one of those detailed questions, we will get you a response. 1616 01:31:28,900 --> 01:31:31,266 As we close out today, just a couple of quick reminders. 1617 01:31:31,466 --> 01:31:34,000 Well, first of all, thank you very much for being here today. 1618 01:31:34,033 --> 01:31:35,266 We really appreciate it 1619 01:31:35,266 --> 01:31:38,866 when folks show up for these types of things and ask the really great questions 1620 01:31:38,866 --> 01:31:40,700 that all of you ask. 1621 01:31:40,700 --> 01:31:43,100 So just to let you know, you should be getting an email 1622 01:31:43,100 --> 01:31:44,933 from Eventbrite very, very soon 1623 01:31:44,933 --> 01:31:48,766 if you didn't receive one already, which has a link to a very short survey. 1624 01:31:49,033 --> 01:31:51,400 Literally will take you one to two minutes to fill out. 1625 01:31:51,533 --> 01:31:52,866 And we would encourage you to do that. 1626 01:31:52,866 --> 01:31:55,466 We really do want to know what you think. 1627 01:31:55,466 --> 01:31:57,766 And if there are things that we can do better, what you liked 1628 01:31:57,766 --> 01:32:01,666 or if they are suggestions you have for things that we could maybe talk 1629 01:32:01,666 --> 01:32:03,200 about in in future webinars. 1630 01:32:04,333 --> 01:32:06,700 And just just a reminder, if those of you who found us 1631 01:32:06,700 --> 01:32:10,033 through Eventbrite, you can always go to our website, USPTO.gov. 1632 01:32:10,033 --> 01:32:11,766 And there's lots of great information there. 1633 01:32:11,766 --> 01:32:15,500 And we also have various events that are always happening all across 1634 01:32:15,500 --> 01:32:19,100 the USPTO that cover not just trademarks, but also patents as well. 1635 01:32:19,533 --> 01:32:21,500 So if you have any interest in those things, 1636 01:32:21,500 --> 01:32:25,733 be sure to go to our events page on USPTO.gov and sign up. 1637 01:32:26,233 --> 01:32:28,666 So thank you very much, folks, for tuning in today. 1638 01:32:28,666 --> 01:32:30,233 And as we said before, 1639 01:32:30,233 --> 01:32:32,600 we should have this recording posted in about three to four weeks. 1640 01:32:33,133 --> 01:32:36,333 And if you are someone who wants CLE credit and you were 1641 01:32:36,333 --> 01:32:39,800 somebody who signed in today using your email address 1642 01:32:40,333 --> 01:32:44,266 into the Livestream, then that will count as a verified attendance. 1643 01:32:44,266 --> 01:32:47,333 And we will be sending you information so you can claim your CLE credit. 1644 01:32:47,700 --> 01:32:49,466 So thank you very much to Amy and Bob. 1645 01:32:49,466 --> 01:32:51,566 And thank you very much, folks, for tuning in today. 1646 01:32:51,733 --> 01:32:52,900 Take care. We'll see you next time.