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Hello everybody and welcome to the trademarks

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Post registration Audit program webinar.

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We're very happy to have you here.

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Today. We're going to get started

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in just a couple of minutes,

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but first we have a couple of housekeeping

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things that we need to take care of first.

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By the way, my name is Jason Lott on the

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attorney advisor for trademarks customer outreach at

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the United States Patent Trademark Office,

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and for those of you have seen me before,

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don't worry, I am I'm only hosting today.

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We have two really great experts who are

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going to be talking through the program.

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With you today, so we're going to get

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to that in just a couple of minutes.

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So just a couple of things to keep

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in mind because I know someone who

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want to want to ask the question,

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is this being recorded and the answer is yes.

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Yes, it is. This session is being recorded.

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It's going to be posted to our

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website in about 3 weeks.

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Close to a month.

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It kind of depends on how things go.

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It's going to be posted to the same

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event page where you probably found

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out about this event so it will be a

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copy of that there as well as on the

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trademarks webinars series page as well.

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And at the very end of the program

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today I'll just show you very briefly.

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Where to find that on the website?

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In case you just found us on Eventbrite

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and have never ever ever been to

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the uspto.gov website before.

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Also the slides are going to be available

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as well when you logged in for the

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event today you should have seen an

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option to download a copy of the slides,

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so hopefully you did that.

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If not,

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feel free to do so at anytime with

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regards to communicating with us today.

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The chat is going to be open,

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however the chat feature is only going

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to be available for technical questions,

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so if you're sending in a question

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about something that you just heard

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or saw on screen.

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It's not going to be answered.

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The only person you're going

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to be contacting is one of our

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excellent technical staff,

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and that's really only for technical issues.

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If you have questions about the presentation

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about the presentation today or about the

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post registration audit program in general,

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instead you should send them to

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tm_webinar@uspto.gov,

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and again,

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that is a an underscore between TM,

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and webinar.

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It's not a space,

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so tm_webinar@uspto.gov.

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Send your questions there.

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We will not be able to probably

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get to all of them today,

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but we're going to do our best to go

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through as many as we possibly can,

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so please feel free to shoot an email

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to that address and that address will be

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available throughout the presentation.

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They're going to be posting it

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in the chat box,

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so if you forget what it is or was

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there an underscore was there not,

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it's going to be available in the chat.

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You'll be able to see it there if you

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need captioning that is also available,

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click on the multimedia viewer option.

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So at the bottom of your screen next

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to participants in chat as options,

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there should be a little button has.

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3 little dots.

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If you click on that that should open up

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the multimedia viewer option and there you

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should have some captioning available.

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So without we're going to actually

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get going here, an actually get to

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the real substance of the program.

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This is the post registration audit

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program and we're very lucky today

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to have two excellent individuals.

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And actually,

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if you want to talk about folks who

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know more about the program than

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probably anybody else on Earth,

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it's our two speakers.

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Today we have Montia Pressey.

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She is the senior supervisory

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attorney and the USPTO's Office

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of Trademark Quality Review

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And Training and the manager of the

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Post registration audit program.

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She first joined the USPTO in 1995

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as an examining attorney and she

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left for several years to work as an

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associate for a DC based intellectual

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property law firm where her practice

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focused on trademark prosecution,

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client counseling,

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and providing advice in proceedings before

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the trademark trial and Appeal board,

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and then, thankfully,

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she returned to us in 2004 and she

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is worked in the office of the

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Deputy Commissioner for examination

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policy as a petitions attorney,

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a legal liaison to the post registration.

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Vision and a senior staff attorney

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in the Office of Trademark Quality.

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Review and training.

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Montia received her law degree from

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Georgetown University Law Center and

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her undergraduate degree from the

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University of Virginia. also with us

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Today is Jordan Baker, Jordan

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Joined the USPTO as an examining attorney

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in 2005 and is now an attorney in

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the USPTO's Trademark Innovation

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Lab Law Office and

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Since 2015,

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he has participated in a number of work

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projects in the post registration area,

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including in his current role

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as lead attorney.

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For post registration audit

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program. as lead attorney,

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Jordan handles the day-to-day

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operations of the program,

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assisting with training and providing

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guidance to audit examiners advising

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on IT matters related to the audit and

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responding to questions from internal

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and external customers about the program.

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Jordan received his law degree

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from George Mason School of Law

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and his undergraduate degree from

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the University of Maryland,

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so that's our introductions.

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Oh,

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at this point I'm going to hand it

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over to Montia, and she is going to.

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Begin the presentation. Thanks so much.

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Thank you Jason so much.

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Hello everyone,

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it's great to be with you today.

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I'm going to go ahead and get started,

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so sorry bout that.

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Alrighty we are going to be talking

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about a number of topics today.

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Here they are.

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The first is we're going to start

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with a review of the significance

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of use in commerce we'll discuss the

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history of the audit program. we'll

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Then review audit procedures which

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were revamped earlier in the

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year and tell you the results to date

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we'll also talk about responding to

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an audit using the T's response to

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office action form which includes

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some audit specific features and we'll

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finish by sharing some suggestions

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on what you can and should be doing

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to prepare for a possible audit.

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Already, so getting started with

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significance of use in commerce.

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As you know, generally use in

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commerce is required to register

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a trademark in the United States,

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exceptions being Richard registrations,

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And marks registered under section

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44 E based on a foreign registration

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that means in applications listing

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only goods and services in use or for

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which there is a bonafide intent to

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use at the time of filing and in post

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registration maintenance declarations.

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Any goods and services not in use and for

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which excusable nonuse cannot be claimed.

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Should be deleted from the registration.

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You are likely aware that the Trademark

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Modernization Act includes new

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registration cancellation mechanisms,

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expungement,

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every examination which allowed

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third parties,

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and the USPTO director to challenge

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a registration based on evidence

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that the registration did not adhere

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or is not currently adhering to

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statutory use requirements.

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We are really excited to be adding these

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two new tools to help us in reducing

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clutter and to better protect the

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integrity of the trademark register.

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Accurately listing goods and services in

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use when filing any submissions before

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and after registration is critical to

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the accuracy of the trademark register.

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Inaccurate use claims can result

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in the cancellation or loss of a

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registration they contribute to the

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Deadwood on the trademark register.

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The claims can lead to unnecessary

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likelihood of confusion

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Refusals based on ID's that don't

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reflect current use or even a

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bona fide intent to use a mark in

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commerce and the claims diminish

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the registers utility to the public.

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Making it really difficult to

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evaluate what marks are available

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for new business opportunities.

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And as you're aware,

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the Trademark Act imposes specific

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requirements for use of a mark to

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qualify as use in commerce in order to

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enjoy the great trademark benefits and

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protections that we have in the US for goods.

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The marks must be placed on the goods,

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their containers or affixed tags or labels,

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or associated displays,

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and the goods must be sold or

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transported in commerce. for services.

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The mark must be displayed in the

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sale or advertising of the services,

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and the services must be offered in commerce.

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And use cannot be mere token use.

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Instead,

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use must be as a source identifier

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and in the ordinary course of trade.

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Turning next to the history

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of the audit program.

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An impetus for the program was the

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Bose Corp decision in 2009,

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which prompted serious discussions

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within the USPTO about the

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landscape of the trademark register.

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Recall that in BOSE the CFC held

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that was insufficient for a party

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alleging fraud to prove only that

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another should have known of

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the falsity of its statement.

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The court stated that instead

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proof of a false material

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representation made with

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the intent to deceive.

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the USPTO was required at a public

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roundtable about a year after bose

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the office consider the impact

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of that decision on the Federal

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trademark registration system.

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Among the questions raised

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during the panel discussion was

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might the higher threshold for

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proving fraud reduce the risk

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associated with filing inaccurate

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identifications of goods or services.

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To explore the answer to that

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question two years later.

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In 2012, the office instituted a

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pilot program to audit registrations.

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500 registrations were six year,

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Section 8 and 71 declarations of use,

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or randomly selected and we

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required additional proof of use.

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Those 500 registrations were comprised

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of a statistically significant sample

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00:09:14,247 --> 00:09:16,047
of all four registration bases,

283
00:09:16,050 --> 00:09:17,310
SO 1A 44E dual bases,

284
00:09:17,310 --> 00:09:18,570
and 66 A.

285
00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:21,804
Because we wanted a sense of whether

286
00:09:21,804 --> 00:09:24,454
any problems with Overclaiming was

287
00:09:24,454 --> 00:09:27,389
tied to the registration basis.

288
00:09:27,390 --> 00:09:29,370
The final results of the pilot

289
00:09:29,370 --> 00:09:31,690
showed that in just over half

290
00:09:31,690 --> 00:09:33,079
of audited registrations,

291
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,955
registration owners were unable to

292
00:09:34,955 --> 00:09:37,263
provide evidentiary support for the use

293
00:09:37,263 --> 00:09:39,138
claims in their original declarations,

294
00:09:39,140 --> 00:09:41,030
with 35% deleting goods and

295
00:09:41,030 --> 00:09:43,493
services and 16% failing to respond

296
00:09:43,493 --> 00:09:45,698
to office actions resulting in

297
00:09:45,698 --> 00:09:47,809
cancellation of the registration.

298
00:09:47,810 --> 00:09:50,295
In terms of results by registration basis,

299
00:09:50,300 --> 00:09:52,785
we saw deletion rates of over 50%.

300
00:09:52,790 --> 00:09:54,570
In this section, 44 E.

301
00:09:54,570 --> 00:09:56,706
66 A and dual basis registrations,

302
00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:58,738
and when deletion rates are considered

303
00:09:58,738 --> 00:10:00,518
with the number of registrations

304
00:10:00,518 --> 00:10:02,720
that were cancelled for failure to

305
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,939
respond to an office action which

306
00:10:04,939 --> 00:10:07,039
is reflected in that last column

307
00:10:07,039 --> 00:10:08,632
across all registration bases,

308
00:10:08,632 --> 00:10:10,702
a substantial number of registrations

309
00:10:10,702 --> 00:10:13,204
were unable to verify the use claims

310
00:10:13,204 --> 00:10:15,050
in their declarations with rates of

311
00:10:15,050 --> 00:10:17,800
45% and higher across the board.

312
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,822
So obviously the final results of

313
00:10:19,822 --> 00:10:21,943
the pilot highlighted the need to

314
00:10:21,943 --> 00:10:24,067
do more for ongoing measures to

315
00:10:24,067 --> 00:10:25,559
encourage registration owners to

316
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,354
file accurate declarations of use.

317
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,838
So our next steps included public outreach.

318
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,610
We held another round table,

319
00:10:31,610 --> 00:10:33,728
this one in December of 2014,

320
00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:35,030
contacted stakeholder groups directly,

321
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:37,450
and we ask for for written comments

322
00:10:37,450 --> 00:10:38,689
from interested parties.

323
00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:40,460
After considering all the feedback,

324
00:10:40,460 --> 00:10:41,186
we received,

325
00:10:41,186 --> 00:10:43,727
a new rule was proposed and then

326
00:10:43,727 --> 00:10:46,156
then implemented to make the

327
00:10:46,156 --> 00:10:47,650
audit program permanent.

328
00:10:47,650 --> 00:10:49,250
Effective March of 2017,

329
00:10:49,250 --> 00:10:51,650
the trademark rules of practice were

330
00:10:51,717 --> 00:10:54,701
amended to allow the USPTO to require

331
00:10:54,701 --> 00:10:56,568
additional support for use claims

332
00:10:56,568 --> 00:10:58,662
in Section 8 and 71 declarations,

333
00:10:58,670 --> 00:10:59,810
including information declarations

334
00:10:59,810 --> 00:11:00,570
and exhibits,

335
00:11:00,570 --> 00:11:03,258
as may be reasonably necessary for the

336
00:11:03,258 --> 00:11:05,182
proper examination of an affidavit

337
00:11:05,182 --> 00:11:07,294
or declaration and for the office

338
00:11:07,294 --> 00:11:09,630
to assess and promote the accuracy

339
00:11:09,630 --> 00:11:11,585
and integrity of the register.

340
00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:12,781
So, with that,

341
00:11:12,781 --> 00:11:16,140
I'll pause and I'll turn it over to

342
00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:19,104
Jordan to talk about audit procedures.

343
00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:20,112
Thank you Montia.

344
00:11:20,112 --> 00:11:22,830
A good afternoon everyone great to be here.

345
00:11:22,830 --> 00:11:26,200
Happy to talk you all.

346
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,340
When the program was launched,

347
00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:31,357
so the auto program became a permanent

348
00:11:31,357 --> 00:11:34,790
program on November 1st, 2017.

349
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:36,320
To be eligible for an audit.

350
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,055
The registration must have at

351
00:11:40,055 --> 00:11:42,270
least four more goods or services.

352
00:11:42,270 --> 00:11:44,358
If it's a single class registration.

353
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,436
If it's a multi class registration,

354
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,048
there has to be at least two classes

355
00:11:49,048 --> 00:11:51,660
with two or more goods or services.

356
00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:54,108
Of course, a Section 8 or 71 has to

357
00:11:54,108 --> 00:11:56,706
be filed within a Section 8 or 71

358
00:11:56,706 --> 00:11:59,319
can't have any immediate eligibility.

359
00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:04,590
Besides 8 or 71 we also

360
00:12:04,590 --> 00:12:06,150
look at combined filings.

361
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:07,794
You are section 815,

362
00:12:07,794 --> 00:12:10,830
your section 8-9 and you're 71 in 15.

363
00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:14,340
If 8 or 71 has a non use claim,

364
00:12:14,340 --> 00:12:16,804
then it's not going to be eligible

365
00:12:16,804 --> 00:12:20,050
for the audit and we use a software

366
00:12:20,050 --> 00:12:21,742
tool to determine eligibility.

367
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:24,240
We have a software program that

368
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,871
creates a randomized list and that

369
00:12:26,871 --> 00:12:29,106
randomized list is eligible files.

370
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:30,962
And audits are performed

371
00:12:30,962 --> 00:12:32,814
by we call audit examiners.

372
00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:35,682
It's a mix of examining attorneys

373
00:12:35,682 --> 00:12:39,466
as well as program analysts who have

374
00:12:39,466 --> 00:12:43,018
expertise in the post registration area.

375
00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:46,206
So what is proof of use proof of use is

376
00:12:46,210 --> 00:12:48,546
It will show that your mark is in

377
00:12:48,546 --> 00:12:51,158
use in commerce in essentially a.

378
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,290
It aligns with our specimen practice,

379
00:12:53,290 --> 00:12:55,060
but it also is elevated,

380
00:12:55,060 --> 00:12:56,830
particularly with goods for goods.

381
00:12:56,830 --> 00:12:58,852
Mark is actually on the

382
00:12:58,852 --> 00:13:01,069
physical goods that is perfect use,

383
00:13:01,070 --> 00:13:03,548
but it also can be shown through

384
00:13:03,548 --> 00:13:04,610
tags or labels.

385
00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:07,690
So a photograph of the mark on a tag or

386
00:13:07,777 --> 00:13:11,332
label if it's fixed to the goods for its use.

387
00:13:11,340 --> 00:13:14,228
But if it's not affixed to the goods.

388
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:16,750
It can work as well if it includes

389
00:13:16,750 --> 00:13:18,856
the generic name of the goods and

390
00:13:18,856 --> 00:13:21,937
also we want to see on that tag or

391
00:13:21,937 --> 00:13:23,545
label other product information.

392
00:13:23,550 --> 00:13:26,232
So that might be a UPC code that would

393
00:13:26,232 --> 00:13:29,214
in a place where it would typically be.

394
00:13:29,220 --> 00:13:30,880
It could be product size,

395
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:31,305
information,

396
00:13:31,305 --> 00:13:32,155
packaging information,

397
00:13:32,155 --> 00:13:35,130
other matter that goes on a label

398
00:13:35,197 --> 00:13:37,052
or tag that would show in fact

399
00:13:37,052 --> 00:13:39,390
use in commerce proof of use in

400
00:13:39,390 --> 00:13:41,202
a commercial setting and not just

401
00:13:41,202 --> 00:13:43,194
the mark without any other context.

402
00:13:46,070 --> 00:13:49,254
Proof of use for goods can also be at a point

403
00:13:49,254 --> 00:13:52,206
of sale display in terms of a web store,

404
00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:54,359
and so a screenshot of an online

405
00:13:54,359 --> 00:13:56,244
store where the goods are being

406
00:13:56,244 --> 00:13:58,344
sold and when they can be added

407
00:13:58,414 --> 00:14:00,814
to CART or they can be ordered or

408
00:14:00,814 --> 00:14:02,648
purchased and just clear ordering or

409
00:14:02,648 --> 00:14:03,876
purchasing information is acceptable,

410
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,358
but all screenshots have to have the

411
00:14:06,358 --> 00:14:08,910
required URL of the website as well

412
00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:11,034
as the date accessed or printed.

413
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,658
Will also take packaging and for packaging.

414
00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:16,278
It's helpful if the packaging is transparent,

415
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,898
we need to know exactly what is

416
00:14:18,898 --> 00:14:20,020
in that packaging.

417
00:14:20,020 --> 00:14:22,400
This whole point is it's proof of

418
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,500
use for specifically requested goods,

419
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:26,744
and if we cannot identify what's

420
00:14:26,744 --> 00:14:27,866
in the packaging,

421
00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:30,454
we have to look for other sources to

422
00:14:30,454 --> 00:14:33,257
confirm and that may in fact require

423
00:14:33,257 --> 00:14:35,342
a request for additional information.

424
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:38,038
This often comes up in the situation

425
00:14:38,038 --> 00:14:40,457
of goods that are located in

426
00:14:40,457 --> 00:14:42,427
a opaque box or container.

427
00:14:42,430 --> 00:14:43,970
We don't know what's inside,

428
00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:45,944
so photographs that are both show

429
00:14:45,944 --> 00:14:47,968
the packaging with the mark on it,

430
00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:50,826
but also what's inside the container

431
00:14:50,826 --> 00:14:52,254
is very helpful.

432
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:54,150
Proof of use for services is the same

433
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:56,668
as it is for the specimen practice.

434
00:14:56,670 --> 00:14:58,245
There's no difference in what

435
00:14:58,245 --> 00:14:59,820
can be submitted for services,

436
00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:01,400
so fear in your advertising,

437
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,028
marketing context,

438
00:15:02,028 --> 00:15:03,598
brochures or Flyers that show

439
00:15:03,598 --> 00:15:04,860
use to the mark,

440
00:15:04,860 --> 00:15:06,869
but it has to have a direct

441
00:15:06,869 --> 00:15:08,330
association with the services.

442
00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:11,156
The whole point is that when we ask proof of use,

443
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,056
very specific services markets

444
00:15:13,056 --> 00:15:15,426
to function for those services.

445
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:17,582
Could be photographs of a mark on a

446
00:15:17,582 --> 00:15:19,420
retail store or restaurant signage.

447
00:15:19,420 --> 00:15:21,256
But similarly to the container issue?

448
00:15:21,260 --> 00:15:23,409
When you have a mark on signage.

449
00:15:23,410 --> 00:15:25,522
We need to know what goes on in

450
00:15:25,522 --> 00:15:27,174
the building that the scientist

451
00:15:27,174 --> 00:15:28,939
is being used for sometimes.

452
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:30,746
This is very obvious if it's

453
00:15:30,746 --> 00:15:32,320
a restaurant and you know,

454
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,540
there's maybe hamburger artwork

455
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:34,455
on the windows,

456
00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:35,995
perhaps around the sign that

457
00:15:35,995 --> 00:15:37,530
makes a lot of sense.

458
00:15:37,530 --> 00:15:39,518
But if it's sort of an industrial

459
00:15:39,518 --> 00:15:40,767
commercial building that there's

460
00:15:40,767 --> 00:15:42,139
no obvious indicator there.

461
00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:44,150
What kind of custom manufacture might

462
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:46,390
be going on inside that building.

463
00:15:46,390 --> 00:15:46,664
Again,

464
00:15:46,664 --> 00:15:48,308
context will always be needed to

465
00:15:48,308 --> 00:15:49,690
support what you're submitting,

466
00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:50,774
is proof of use.

467
00:15:50,774 --> 00:15:52,400
One example of for services is

468
00:15:52,466 --> 00:15:54,488
common is mark on service vehicles,

469
00:15:54,490 --> 00:15:56,499
so it's a best company services and

470
00:15:56,499 --> 00:15:58,976
the mark is clearly on a truck that's

471
00:15:58,976 --> 00:16:01,388
used in reference is some kind of pest,

472
00:16:01,390 --> 00:16:04,090
or let's say insect or bug example on there.

473
00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:05,836
That's a common way of showing

474
00:16:05,836 --> 00:16:07,669
proof of use when it's printed

475
00:16:07,669 --> 00:16:09,487
on the side of the vehicle,

476
00:16:09,490 --> 00:16:10,158
and screenshots,

477
00:16:10,158 --> 00:16:11,828
just like with goods website

478
00:16:11,828 --> 00:16:13,393
screenshots will still require the

479
00:16:13,393 --> 00:16:15,185
URL and the date access to printed.

480
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:20,876
I will now turn this back to Montia,

481
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,184
who's going to talk about our new deletion

482
00:16:23,184 --> 00:16:25,729
fee and the related deficiency surcharge.

483
00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:26,708
Thank you Jordan.

484
00:16:26,708 --> 00:16:30,141
So Jordan is going to be back to talk about

485
00:16:30,141 --> 00:16:32,661
the audit procedures in just a moment,

486
00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:34,704
but I wanted to highlight three

487
00:16:34,704 --> 00:16:36,060
changes and post registration

488
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,520
examination policy that became

489
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,960
effective on January 2nd of this year,

490
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,408
which caused us to modify some of the

491
00:16:42,408 --> 00:16:44,519
procedures and the audit program some

492
00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:46,673
these new policies though apply across

493
00:16:46,737 --> 00:16:48,737
all post registration examination.

494
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:51,356
The first change is a new fee of

495
00:16:51,356 --> 00:16:53,769
$250 per class that's incurred.

496
00:16:53,770 --> 00:16:55,750
When goods, services or classes

497
00:16:55,750 --> 00:16:57,730
are deleted during the pendency

498
00:16:57,795 --> 00:16:59,867
of a Section 8 or 71 declaration,

499
00:16:59,870 --> 00:17:02,310
the second change is that in some cases

500
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:04,626
A 1 time $100 deficiency surcharge must

501
00:17:04,626 --> 00:17:07,410
be paid along with that deletion fee.

502
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:09,456
Both the deletion fee and the

503
00:17:09,456 --> 00:17:11,266
deficiency surcharge are tide to

504
00:17:11,266 --> 00:17:12,794
the statutory requirement that

505
00:17:12,794 --> 00:17:15,105
declarations under Section 8 and 71

506
00:17:15,105 --> 00:17:17,151
identify the goods and services in

507
00:17:17,151 --> 00:17:19,035
the registration with which the mark.

508
00:17:19,035 --> 00:17:21,398
Is in use in commerce the leading goods

509
00:17:21,398 --> 00:17:23,519
or services from a declaration is an

510
00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:25,990
effort to correct a deficiency or an

511
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:28,375
inaccuracy in that original listing of

512
00:17:28,375 --> 00:17:31,825
goods or services in the declaration.

513
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:33,825
Ok? to encourage registration owners

514
00:17:33,825 --> 00:17:36,579
not to wait until after they file

515
00:17:36,579 --> 00:17:39,001
their Section 8 or 71 declaration to

516
00:17:39,001 --> 00:17:41,216
delete goods and services when that

517
00:17:41,216 --> 00:17:44,136
$250 deletion fee would be do we incur?

518
00:17:44,136 --> 00:17:45,996
We introduced a third change,

519
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,611
a new zero fee option for certain

520
00:17:48,611 --> 00:17:49,730
Section 7 request.

521
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:52,418
This option is only available when the

522
00:17:52,418 --> 00:17:54,753
Section 7 request is submitted before

523
00:17:54,753 --> 00:17:57,343
the Section 8 or 71 declaration is

524
00:17:57,419 --> 00:17:59,869
filed or after it's been accepted and

525
00:17:59,869 --> 00:18:02,444
the Section 7 filing only request the

526
00:18:02,444 --> 00:18:04,730
deletion of goods services or classes.

527
00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:05,720
So for example,

528
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,700
if the Section 7 requests also

529
00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:09,710
includes a change in the owner name,

530
00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:11,260
or there's an amendment to

531
00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:12,190
the registered mark,

532
00:18:12,190 --> 00:18:14,927
the normal fee of $100 for the

533
00:18:14,927 --> 00:18:17,810
Section 7 request would be incurred.

534
00:18:17,810 --> 00:18:18,824
As I mentioned,

535
00:18:18,824 --> 00:18:20,852
the leading goods and services during

536
00:18:20,852 --> 00:18:23,211
the pendency of a Section 8 or 71

537
00:18:23,211 --> 00:18:25,107
declaration is an indication that the

538
00:18:25,107 --> 00:18:27,431
listing of goods and services in the

539
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,000
declaration is deficient because it

540
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,290
didn't satisfy that statue to a requirement.

541
00:18:31,290 --> 00:18:31,611
Again,

542
00:18:31,611 --> 00:18:33,858
to list goods and services in use

543
00:18:33,858 --> 00:18:34,500
in commerce.

544
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:36,486
Other deficiencies in a declaration include

545
00:18:36,486 --> 00:18:38,030
submitting an insufficient filing fee,

546
00:18:38,030 --> 00:18:39,662
filing an unacceptable specimen,

547
00:18:39,662 --> 00:18:42,110
and identifying the wrong party as

548
00:18:42,175 --> 00:18:44,365
a current owner of the registration.

549
00:18:44,370 --> 00:18:46,458
In line with how other deficiencies

550
00:18:46,458 --> 00:18:47,154
are treated,

551
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,224
a deficiency in the listing of

552
00:18:49,224 --> 00:18:51,712
goods and services in a Section 8

553
00:18:51,712 --> 00:18:53,788
or 71 declaration can be corrected,

554
00:18:53,790 --> 00:18:55,884
but a one time $100 deficiency

555
00:18:55,884 --> 00:18:57,280
surcharge may be required.

556
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,856
This is determined by the date the

557
00:18:59,856 --> 00:19:01,344
original declaration was filed

558
00:19:01,344 --> 00:19:03,216
and the date of the response.

559
00:19:03,220 --> 00:19:05,908
Correcting the deficiency in the declaration.

560
00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:06,672
So for example,

561
00:19:06,672 --> 00:19:08,813
if you were to file your Section 8

562
00:19:08,813 --> 00:19:10,625
declaration right after the 5th year

563
00:19:10,625 --> 00:19:12,439
following the date of registration,

564
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,900
which would be period one.

565
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:17,916
And in response to an audit office action,

566
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,629
you delete goods and services and that

567
00:19:20,629 --> 00:19:23,586
response is filed before the sixth year,

568
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:25,858
which would also be period one.

569
00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:28,506
You would owe the $250 deletion fee,

570
00:19:28,510 --> 00:19:31,880
but not the deficiency surcharge.

571
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,856
In contrast, if you didn't file that response

572
00:19:34,856 --> 00:19:37,749
to leading goods and services until after the

573
00:19:37,749 --> 00:19:40,730
sixth year when you would be in period two,

574
00:19:40,730 --> 00:19:42,788
you would owe both the $250 deletion

575
00:19:42,788 --> 00:19:45,328
fee and the $100 deficiency surcharge.

576
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:48,589
So to sum up, a fee of $250 per class is

577
00:19:48,589 --> 00:19:51,697
required each time and response is submitted.

578
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,192
Deleting goods services or classes during the

579
00:19:54,192 --> 00:19:57,010
pendency of a Section 8 or 71 declaration,

580
00:19:57,010 --> 00:19:58,780
but the $100 deficiency surcharge,

581
00:19:58,780 --> 00:20:01,420
which is only paid once regardless of the

582
00:20:01,420 --> 00:20:04,087
number of deficiencies in a declaration.

583
00:20:04,090 --> 00:20:06,792
Is only required when you're responding by

584
00:20:06,792 --> 00:20:09,129
correcting a deficiency in a filing period.

585
00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:11,783
That's different from the filing period of

586
00:20:11,783 --> 00:20:14,168
your original Section 8 or 71 Declaration,

587
00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:17,803
and now back to Jordan for more

588
00:20:17,803 --> 00:20:19,360
on audit procedures.

589
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:20,569
Thank you, Montia.

590
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:25,880
Alright, let's get into the inner

591
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,331
workings of a proof of use audit

592
00:20:28,331 --> 00:20:30,141
by first addressing your initial

593
00:20:30,141 --> 00:20:31,997
office action that you're going

594
00:20:31,997 --> 00:20:33,777
to receive that initial office

595
00:20:33,777 --> 00:20:35,758
action is going to request proof

596
00:20:35,758 --> 00:20:38,360
of use for two goods or services.

597
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,439
If it's a single class registration an

598
00:20:40,439 --> 00:20:42,938
if it's a multi class registration,

599
00:20:42,940 --> 00:20:45,118
it maybe two goods or services

600
00:20:45,118 --> 00:20:47,930
per multi class could be one in a

601
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:49,856
multi class where there's only two

602
00:20:49,933 --> 00:20:52,069
goods or services and there's no

603
00:20:52,069 --> 00:20:54,130
proof of use for one of those items.

604
00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:57,384
Or it may even be proof of use for a

605
00:20:57,384 --> 00:20:59,666
class that has just a single item,

606
00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:00,922
but these specimens submitted

607
00:21:00,922 --> 00:21:01,548
is unacceptable,

608
00:21:01,550 --> 00:21:03,440
and that might be the case

609
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,010
unacceptable as proof of use,

610
00:21:05,010 --> 00:21:07,467
and so that might be the case of a

611
00:21:07,467 --> 00:21:09,827
label tag for clothing items that just

612
00:21:09,827 --> 00:21:12,539
has the mark but nothing else on it,

613
00:21:12,540 --> 00:21:14,430
and it's not attached or anything.

614
00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:15,008
So those.

615
00:21:15,008 --> 00:21:17,031
So that's that's the immediate proof of

616
00:21:17,031 --> 00:21:19,447
use portion of your initial office action.

617
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:24,934
But there's more, but will also

618
00:21:24,934 --> 00:21:26,659
address any underlying issues in

619
00:21:26,659 --> 00:21:28,399
this Section 8 or 71 declaration.

620
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,020
And how does the audit?

621
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:32,295
How does that initial office action click?

622
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:34,491
What kinds of goods or services are

623
00:21:34,491 --> 00:21:37,167
going to be request for proof of use?

624
00:21:37,170 --> 00:21:38,880
Well, first, it's the audit

625
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,248
examiners discretion on what

626
00:21:40,248 --> 00:21:42,046
to choose for proof of use,

627
00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:44,314
and that is after review of the 8

628
00:21:44,314 --> 00:21:46,674
or 71 in terms of the specimens

629
00:21:46,674 --> 00:21:48,870
to see what the specimens cover.

630
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:51,243
For proof of use and to ensure

631
00:21:51,243 --> 00:21:54,054
that we don't ask for proof of

632
00:21:54,054 --> 00:21:56,194
use for things already submitted.

633
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,606
The audit examiner is going to

634
00:21:58,606 --> 00:22:00,735
look mostly for despret goods

635
00:22:00,735 --> 00:22:02,519
or services if possible,

636
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,467
and but what I mean by that

637
00:22:05,467 --> 00:22:06,730
is typical example.

638
00:22:06,730 --> 00:22:08,848
You have a registration that has

639
00:22:08,848 --> 00:22:11,856
us in class nine that has numerous

640
00:22:11,856 --> 00:22:13,876
items of downloadable software,

641
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,406
but the registration also has sunglasses

642
00:22:16,406 --> 00:22:18,090
and fire extinguishing apparatus.

643
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:20,205
These specimens that were submitted

644
00:22:20,205 --> 00:22:22,798
show clearly use of the mark

645
00:22:22,798 --> 00:22:24,828
on variety of software goods,

646
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:27,428
but there's no reference at all.

647
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:29,166
In the in the record in in the

648
00:22:29,166 --> 00:22:31,731
8 or 71 to the sunglasses or

649
00:22:31,731 --> 00:22:32,967
fire extinguishing apparatus.

650
00:22:32,970 --> 00:22:34,824
Pretty good chance that when the

651
00:22:34,824 --> 00:22:36,360
audit examiners reviewing that file,

652
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:38,208
they're going to seize on those,

653
00:22:38,210 --> 00:22:39,750
all those disparate goods that

654
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:41,290
have not been already been.

655
00:22:41,290 --> 00:22:43,746
There's no proof of use in the record.

656
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:45,726
The audit exam is going to do their

657
00:22:45,726 --> 00:22:47,981
best to make sure they select clearly

658
00:22:47,981 --> 00:22:50,079
from the registration what it is

659
00:22:50,079 --> 00:22:51,759
exactly that they're asking for.

660
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,295
Action would be difficult given

661
00:22:53,295 --> 00:22:54,523
sometimes registration ID construction,

662
00:22:54,530 --> 00:22:57,186
but we tried to make it very clear

663
00:22:57,186 --> 00:22:59,755
what it is that we want to see

664
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,708
in response.

665
00:23:00,708 --> 00:23:02,604
Alright, so your initial office action,

666
00:23:02,610 --> 00:23:04,843
as I noted will will reference any

667
00:23:04,843 --> 00:23:06,430
inquiries or deficiencies with the

668
00:23:06,430 --> 00:23:08,152
maintenance filing and then it will

669
00:23:08,152 --> 00:23:10,219
include a whole series of advisories.

670
00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:12,820
The first advisory is that if you cannot

671
00:23:12,820 --> 00:23:15,286
provide proof of use for what is requested,

672
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:16,875
you must delete the audited

673
00:23:16,875 --> 00:23:17,826
goods or services.

674
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:19,098
If it's not available.

675
00:23:19,098 --> 00:23:20,049
Not only that,

676
00:23:20,050 --> 00:23:21,880
you should also delete any goods

677
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,759
or services that are also in

678
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:25,254
the registration that does not

679
00:23:25,254 --> 00:23:27,020
have proof of use available.

680
00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:29,239
Even if we didn't ask for them.

681
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,210
So this is the time where you're going to.

682
00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:33,944
Really go over that portfolio again

683
00:23:33,944 --> 00:23:35,853
of what is in this registration

684
00:23:35,853 --> 00:23:37,911
and determine at that point if

685
00:23:37,911 --> 00:23:39,837
you can't show proof of use for it,

686
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,066
it should be removed from the registration.

687
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:43,948
Other advisory is going to be

688
00:23:43,948 --> 00:23:45,898
that pay the deletion fee as

689
00:23:45,898 --> 00:23:47,788
Montia has talked to us already.

690
00:23:47,790 --> 00:23:49,698
Now if you have to delete

691
00:23:49,698 --> 00:23:50,970
items from that registration,

692
00:23:50,970 --> 00:23:53,598
you're going to have to pay

693
00:23:53,598 --> 00:23:55,350
that $250 per class.

694
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:57,246
As well as possibly the deficiency

695
00:23:57,246 --> 00:23:58,907
surcharge so the advisor advisory

696
00:23:58,907 --> 00:24:00,959
in the First Office action about

697
00:24:00,959 --> 00:24:02,712
potentially needing to pay the

698
00:24:02,712 --> 00:24:04,372
deficiency surcharge based on the

699
00:24:04,372 --> 00:24:05,700
timelines that we've discussed.

700
00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:10,524
The initial office action also warns

701
00:24:10,524 --> 00:24:13,327
that if you don't satisfy the audit

702
00:24:13,327 --> 00:24:16,113
in your response is a possibility that

703
00:24:16,189 --> 00:24:18,744
you will get a second office action,

704
00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:21,480
which will escalate the audit to a request

705
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,301
for proof of use for everything remaining

706
00:24:24,301 --> 00:24:27,329
without proof of use in the audited class.

707
00:24:27,330 --> 00:24:29,235
Finally, you are given response

708
00:24:29,235 --> 00:24:32,010
guidelines that if you do not respond,

709
00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:33,960
the entire registration is cancelled.

710
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,240
There is no partial aspect to an audit.

711
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,528
In audit review, essentially,

712
00:24:39,528 --> 00:24:41,138
if you do not respond,

713
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:43,303
even if several classes were not subject

714
00:24:43,303 --> 00:24:45,501
to audit and and the initial office

715
00:24:45,501 --> 00:24:47,730
action will let you know what classes

716
00:24:47,730 --> 00:24:49,830
are being requested in which ones.

717
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:51,118
If it's not mentioned,

718
00:24:51,118 --> 00:24:52,728
likely it's not under audit,

719
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:54,340
but if you don't respond,

720
00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:55,950
the whole thing gets canceled,

721
00:24:55,950 --> 00:24:57,560
so keep that in mind.

722
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,170
Going back to the deadlines,

723
00:24:59,170 --> 00:25:01,284
your response deadline is going to be

724
00:25:01,284 --> 00:25:04,174
six months to respond or to the end of

725
00:25:04,174 --> 00:25:05,930
the relevant statutory filing period,

726
00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:06,920
whatever is longer.

727
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,570
So if you file early.

728
00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:10,607
In your renewal pair, let's say in

729
00:25:10,607 --> 00:25:12,528
the very beginning of the fifth year,

730
00:25:12,530 --> 00:25:13,940
and you're getting office action

731
00:25:13,940 --> 00:25:14,504
fairly quick,

732
00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:16,166
you might have a response period

733
00:25:16,166 --> 00:25:18,188
quite a bit longer than six months.

734
00:25:18,190 --> 00:25:20,737
Maybe 10-11 months won't be more than a year,

735
00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:25,024
but you have quite a long horizon to respond.

736
00:25:25,030 --> 00:25:28,206
So now that you've gotten your office action.

737
00:25:28,210 --> 00:25:28,525
What?

738
00:25:28,525 --> 00:25:30,415
What is your strategy to respond?

739
00:25:30,420 --> 00:25:32,625
But we encourage a strategy to complete

740
00:25:32,625 --> 00:25:34,827
an entire audit in a single response.

741
00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:36,734
This is perhaps to keep costs down

742
00:25:36,734 --> 00:25:38,918
or just a matter of efficiency,

743
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,125
but you can resolve everything you need,

744
00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:43,014
hopefully in an audit in one

745
00:25:43,014 --> 00:25:43,956
single response back.

746
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,456
If you have proof of use for what

747
00:25:46,456 --> 00:25:48,080
we've asked for, that's great.

748
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,355
We will eagerly await that proof of

749
00:25:50,355 --> 00:25:52,465
use in a response and review it,

750
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:54,360
but help us out by labeling,

751
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,930
describing exactly what it is

752
00:25:55,930 --> 00:25:56,558
you're submitting.

753
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,185
It's not always obvious what

754
00:25:58,185 --> 00:25:59,485
we're looking at sometimes.

755
00:25:59,490 --> 00:26:01,758
Some goods are clearly very obvious,

756
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,650
but more often than not,

757
00:26:03,650 --> 00:26:05,540
especially commercial or industrial items,

758
00:26:05,540 --> 00:26:07,584
let us know clearly in the form

759
00:26:07,584 --> 00:26:10,069
or on your attachments somewhere.

760
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:12,338
This image described is this goods,

761
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:12,723
phrases,

762
00:26:12,723 --> 00:26:15,404
or sentences like photo of mark on

763
00:26:15,404 --> 00:26:18,386
goods is not super helpful to us when,

764
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:21,324
when looking at non ordinary or

765
00:26:21,324 --> 00:26:24,209
just not obvious kind of items.

766
00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:26,148
I give you examples, I watch,

767
00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:29,057
I'll talk about this in the moment as well.

768
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:30,348
So in your response,

769
00:26:30,348 --> 00:26:31,958
as a matter of strategy,

770
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,570
if you have determined other items

771
00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:37,151
in your registration are not avail

772
00:26:37,151 --> 00:26:39,449
for proof of you should delete

773
00:26:39,449 --> 00:26:41,986
those items as well as pay the fee.

774
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:44,216
And again also pay that deficiency

775
00:26:44,216 --> 00:26:46,050
surcharge if it is due.

776
00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:48,084
If deletions are being made or

777
00:26:48,084 --> 00:26:49,919
there's any other item deficiency

778
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:51,949
in the first Office action,

779
00:26:51,950 --> 00:26:54,818
perhaps responding to a specimen refusal.

780
00:26:54,820 --> 00:26:57,400
Uh.

781
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,374
If you do have to provide additional

782
00:26:59,374 --> 00:27:01,315
proof of use for the remaining

783
00:27:01,315 --> 00:27:02,695
items in a registration,

784
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:04,884
make sure you label those as well.

785
00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:06,405
Lots of situations where you

786
00:27:06,405 --> 00:27:07,920
may have numerous strings of

787
00:27:07,981 --> 00:27:08,938
goods or services,

788
00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:10,977
and the more you provide to us

789
00:27:10,977 --> 00:27:12,999
on what exactly we're looking at,

790
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,212
and so we can match up what's

791
00:27:15,212 --> 00:27:16,740
in the registration to us

792
00:27:16,740 --> 00:27:18,300
In your response, the better.

793
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:22,324
Provide charts, lists, tables,

794
00:27:22,324 --> 00:27:24,104
exhibits that describe proof of use in,

795
00:27:24,110 --> 00:27:25,277
in large documents.

796
00:27:25,277 --> 00:27:28,000
These files can become voluminous if you

797
00:27:28,072 --> 00:27:30,536
have a long list of goods or services.

798
00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:32,754
It's very helpful if we have

799
00:27:32,754 --> 00:27:35,179
some kind of index to rely on.

800
00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:37,226
Exhibit A goes to shirts and

801
00:27:37,226 --> 00:27:39,110
exhibit B goes to pants.

802
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:41,958
I mean I get those are obvious goods,

803
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,284
but obviously you can imagine in your

804
00:27:44,284 --> 00:27:46,495
head if you're dealing with paper

805
00:27:46,495 --> 00:27:48,793
shredding machines or lawn equipment in

806
00:27:48,793 --> 00:27:51,476
a in a commercial setting or whatnot.

807
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,808
The more the more you provide to us,

808
00:27:53,810 --> 00:27:55,556
the more it's going to help

809
00:27:55,556 --> 00:27:56,429
review your response.

810
00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:57,578
Also, things like instruction

811
00:27:57,578 --> 00:27:59,300
manuals that might have a mark

812
00:27:59,353 --> 00:28:00,788
in it using acceptable manner,

813
00:28:00,790 --> 00:28:03,118
but that manual might be 200 pages long.

814
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,505
Let us know where in that manual the mark

815
00:28:05,505 --> 00:28:08,069
is there starting to fish around for it.

816
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:10,980
You run the risk that we might just miss it,

817
00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:13,308
which of course we don't want to do,

818
00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:15,050
but you know it can happen.

819
00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:17,330
So let us know on page 83 of

820
00:28:17,330 --> 00:28:19,128
whatever manual the mark is there,

821
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:20,338
and it describes whatever

822
00:28:20,338 --> 00:28:21,546
it's supposed to describe.

823
00:28:21,550 --> 00:28:22,564
In the manual,

824
00:28:22,564 --> 00:28:23,916
don't resubmit evidence already

825
00:28:23,916 --> 00:28:24,930
in PTO records.

826
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:27,030
USPTO records from past filings

827
00:28:27,030 --> 00:28:28,990
just creates a possible flag of

828
00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:31,006
Is this proof of current use?

829
00:28:31,010 --> 00:28:33,327
I'm sure you can think of examples

830
00:28:33,327 --> 00:28:35,475
where the picture of goods from

831
00:28:35,475 --> 00:28:37,653
prior filing might be the identical

832
00:28:37,653 --> 00:28:39,796
picture of the good that exist now,

833
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,264
but the point is that because that same

834
00:28:42,264 --> 00:28:44,537
image was submitted years ago, well,

835
00:28:44,537 --> 00:28:46,896
is it really showing use right now?

836
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,266
It may, but it also may not,

837
00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:51,559
and that's when the risk of prior

838
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:53,379
filings with this date stamps.

839
00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:54,346
On those images,

840
00:28:54,346 --> 00:28:56,278
you don't want to submit a date stamped

841
00:28:56,278 --> 00:28:58,407
from prior years ago when you're

842
00:28:58,407 --> 00:29:00,460
saying its current use right now.

843
00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:03,070
What if we can't figure out

844
00:29:03,070 --> 00:29:04,810
what is being submitted?

845
00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:07,026
You may end up getting another office

846
00:29:07,026 --> 00:29:09,003
action with a request for information

847
00:29:09,003 --> 00:29:11,049
and that request for information might

848
00:29:11,107 --> 00:29:13,027
ask for additional photographs or

849
00:29:13,027 --> 00:29:14,947
documentation supporting proof of use.

850
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:17,358
This comes up often with the items

851
00:29:17,358 --> 00:29:19,428
where photographs are zoomed in and

852
00:29:19,428 --> 00:29:21,703
they show the mark physically on goods,

853
00:29:21,710 --> 00:29:23,395
but there's no broader view

854
00:29:23,395 --> 00:29:24,743
of what the final,

855
00:29:24,750 --> 00:29:26,078
what the goods are,

856
00:29:26,078 --> 00:29:28,810
and it could be a variety of items,

857
00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:31,506
so we might so we encourage multiple images.

858
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:32,230
Sometimes if,

859
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:35,619
let's say an example of a label sewn in on.

860
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:37,050
On a waistband of clothing,

861
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:38,766
well that waist band can show pants.

862
00:29:38,770 --> 00:29:41,050
It could show shorts that could show skirts,

863
00:29:41,050 --> 00:29:42,270
capris, a whole variety.

864
00:29:42,270 --> 00:29:44,100
So submit maybe the close-up image

865
00:29:44,151 --> 00:29:45,336
and a zoomed out image.

866
00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:47,628
If you run the risk of getting RFI,

867
00:29:47,630 --> 00:29:48,774
it request for information.

868
00:29:48,774 --> 00:29:49,918
It delays the process,

869
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,782
but you also run the risk of

870
00:29:51,782 --> 00:29:53,509
getting a second office action if

871
00:29:53,509 --> 00:29:55,890
we just don't think proof of use is

872
00:29:55,890 --> 00:29:57,624
there in that of course escalates

873
00:29:57,624 --> 00:29:59,070
the audit to another level.

874
00:30:01,530 --> 00:30:03,180
So once your responses submitted,

875
00:30:03,180 --> 00:30:04,830
if proof of uses provided,

876
00:30:04,830 --> 00:30:06,480
we will issue the acceptance.

877
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,685
If proof of use is not provided

878
00:30:08,685 --> 00:30:10,439
for what we asked for,

879
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,252
but deletions have been made and

880
00:30:12,252 --> 00:30:14,400
perfect use exists for everything else,

881
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,710
we will issue the acceptance as well,

882
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:19,020
as long as all fees are paid.

883
00:30:23,010 --> 00:30:24,418
However, if the response

884
00:30:24,418 --> 00:30:26,178
does not resolve all issues,

885
00:30:26,180 --> 00:30:28,406
a second office action will issue

886
00:30:28,406 --> 00:30:30,536
and your second Office action is

887
00:30:30,536 --> 00:30:32,816
going to ask for proof of use for

888
00:30:32,888 --> 00:30:35,198
all the remaining goods or services

889
00:30:35,198 --> 00:30:37,091
in the audited classes without

890
00:30:37,091 --> 00:30:38,846
without acceptable proof of use,

891
00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:40,610
and it will include listing

892
00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:42,018
of any outstanding fees.

893
00:30:42,020 --> 00:30:43,424
Your second office action

894
00:30:43,424 --> 00:30:44,828
has multiple component parts.

895
00:30:44,830 --> 00:30:47,478
The first part of a second office action

896
00:30:47,478 --> 00:30:50,470
will give your status of what any situation,

897
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:53,080
any issues that have been resolved.

898
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,117
And then what is outstanding and it

899
00:30:55,117 --> 00:30:57,372
will indicate if you have made any

900
00:30:57,372 --> 00:30:59,352
deletion requests in your first response,

901
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,094
it will note that deletions for

902
00:31:01,094 --> 00:31:02,673
the requested goods or services

903
00:31:02,673 --> 00:31:03,759
have been entered.

904
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,846
The second Office action will have a

905
00:31:05,846 --> 00:31:08,299
list of all the goods and services that

906
00:31:08,299 --> 00:31:11,287
do have proof of use in the audited classes,

907
00:31:11,290 --> 00:31:13,819
and then it will also include a list of

908
00:31:13,819 --> 00:31:16,317
all the goods or services that do not

909
00:31:16,317 --> 00:31:19,138
have proof of use in the auditing classes,

910
00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:20,082
in which miss,

911
00:31:20,082 --> 00:31:22,280
which must be shown in a response,

912
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,004
if any.

913
00:31:23,004 --> 00:31:25,176
Proof of use submitted in the

914
00:31:25,176 --> 00:31:26,880
first response was rejected.

915
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,560
That second office action will

916
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,240
include an explanation of why

917
00:31:30,303 --> 00:31:31,927
the proof of use was unacceptable,

918
00:31:31,930 --> 00:31:34,252
and then then the second office

919
00:31:34,252 --> 00:31:37,246
actual also go through all the issues

920
00:31:37,246 --> 00:31:39,536
and indicate what additional fees

921
00:31:39,536 --> 00:31:41,818
are outstanding and what maybe do.

922
00:31:41,820 --> 00:31:43,124
Response response is submitted

923
00:31:43,124 --> 00:31:44,754
to the SEC Office action.

924
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,152
We do the same analysis we do after

925
00:31:47,152 --> 00:31:49,602
First Office action or all of the

926
00:31:49,602 --> 00:31:51,382
underlying issues in the maintenance

927
00:31:51,446 --> 00:31:53,630
filing resolved as proof of use been

928
00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:56,285
shown for all of the goods or services

929
00:31:56,285 --> 00:31:58,499
without proof of use and if so,

930
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:00,130
and all fees are paid,

931
00:32:00,130 --> 00:32:03,924
we will issue the notice of acceptance.

932
00:32:03,930 --> 00:32:05,018
And if not, well,

933
00:32:05,018 --> 00:32:07,040
then we'll go to the next step,

934
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,270
which is 1/3 office action.

935
00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:10,650
But that second action,

936
00:32:10,650 --> 00:32:12,720
that second office action when it

937
00:32:12,787 --> 00:32:14,857
gets issued the response is similar

938
00:32:14,857 --> 00:32:16,910
to the first response deadlines.

939
00:32:16,910 --> 00:32:19,316
You will have six months to

940
00:32:19,316 --> 00:32:21,887
respond to a second office action

941
00:32:21,887 --> 00:32:24,939
or to the end of the statutory

942
00:32:24,939 --> 00:32:27,597
filing period if that is longer.

943
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,190
Now before we talk about

944
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:30,462
the third office action,

945
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:32,060
let's go pivot right back

946
00:32:32,060 --> 00:32:33,332
to the deletion fees.

947
00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:35,580
It kind of keeps popping up here.

948
00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:37,170
Your deletion fees are successive,

949
00:32:37,170 --> 00:32:39,714
so each time that a filing is made,

950
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,310
once an audit has started

951
00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:42,582
and deletions are made,

952
00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:44,426
the fee must be paid again

953
00:32:44,426 --> 00:32:46,100
and the fee is paid.

954
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,962
If it's just a couple of goods or services,

955
00:32:48,970 --> 00:32:50,250
or an entire class.

956
00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:55,788
An example of how the fees are successive.

957
00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:57,920
So in a response to the

958
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:58,985
initial office action,

959
00:32:58,990 --> 00:33:01,475
ABC company deletes goods from 3 classes,

960
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,184
so that would be fees of $750 and

961
00:33:04,184 --> 00:33:06,110
deletions in response to the,

962
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:08,246
but the audit was not satisfied,

963
00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:10,954
so a second office action goes out and

964
00:33:10,954 --> 00:33:13,587
in response to the Second Office action,

965
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:15,014
ABC company deletes goods

966
00:33:15,014 --> 00:33:17,150
from two of the same classes.

967
00:33:17,150 --> 00:33:19,654
At that point they've now incurred the

968
00:33:19,654 --> 00:33:22,127
equivalent of five times of classification,

969
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:23,346
so 1200 and $50.

970
00:33:23,346 --> 00:33:24,866
Patient feels you can see

971
00:33:24,866 --> 00:33:26,568
how these fees escalate.

972
00:33:26,570 --> 00:33:28,614
If a strategy of not resolving everything

973
00:33:28,614 --> 00:33:30,627
in the first action is not taken.

974
00:33:32,790 --> 00:33:34,862
So let's go back to auto procedure

975
00:33:34,862 --> 00:33:36,290
with the office actions.

976
00:33:36,290 --> 00:33:38,783
We're now at the point we got to 1/3

977
00:33:38,783 --> 00:33:41,375
office action in your third office action,

978
00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:43,852
and this is where practice has changed a

979
00:33:43,852 --> 00:33:46,460
lot since the fear rule came into effect,

980
00:33:46,460 --> 00:33:49,043
we used to have the ability of a partial

981
00:33:49,043 --> 00:33:51,501
third office action which would set out

982
00:33:51,501 --> 00:33:53,780
items which don't have proof of use.

983
00:33:53,780 --> 00:33:56,324
And if you did not respond you didn't

984
00:33:56,324 --> 00:33:58,228
do anything, then the office would

985
00:33:58,228 --> 00:33:59,813
delete those goods and services,

986
00:33:59,820 --> 00:34:01,728
but that does not exist anymore.

987
00:34:01,730 --> 00:34:04,016
The new procedures after the rule.

988
00:34:04,020 --> 00:34:06,337
Makes the third office action into a

989
00:34:06,337 --> 00:34:08,624
notice that will list what goods and

990
00:34:08,624 --> 00:34:10,780
services do not have proof of use.

991
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:12,580
It will provide arguments for any

992
00:34:12,580 --> 00:34:14,850
rejected proof of use submitted with the

993
00:34:14,850 --> 00:34:17,216
Second Office action that was not accepted,

994
00:34:17,220 --> 00:34:19,152
and then it will give you

995
00:34:19,152 --> 00:34:20,440
a revised response options.

996
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,366
So this is the new procedure.

997
00:34:22,370 --> 00:34:24,055
Your revised response options are

998
00:34:24,055 --> 00:34:26,401
two or three ways of handling to

999
00:34:26,401 --> 00:34:28,487
based on where you are in time.

1000
00:34:28,490 --> 00:34:30,513
The first is that you can file

1001
00:34:30,513 --> 00:34:32,520
a petition to the director and

1002
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,662
that's if you disagree with the.

1003
00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:35,780
Audit examiners findings.

1004
00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:36,150
Or,

1005
00:34:36,150 --> 00:34:39,142
if you wish to have new proof of

1006
00:34:39,142 --> 00:34:41,236
use or additional proof of use,

1007
00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:44,088
submitted for review so you will have a

1008
00:34:44,088 --> 00:34:47,112
six months to respond and you can file a

1009
00:34:47,112 --> 00:34:50,000
petition to the director for those issues.

1010
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,170
In the alternative,

1011
00:34:51,170 --> 00:34:53,510
you can file a post registration

1012
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:56,004
response to office action through the T

1013
00:34:56,004 --> 00:34:58,484
system and request the deletion of any

1014
00:34:58,484 --> 00:35:00,948
goods or services without proof of use.

1015
00:35:00,950 --> 00:35:03,414
That is the only kind of response

1016
00:35:03,414 --> 00:35:05,090
that we will accept.

1017
00:35:05,090 --> 00:35:07,340
Of a post registration response form.

1018
00:35:07,340 --> 00:35:08,459
At this stage,

1019
00:35:08,459 --> 00:35:10,324
any substantive argument or substantive

1020
00:35:10,324 --> 00:35:11,873
response or additional evidence

1021
00:35:11,873 --> 00:35:14,470
provided that way will not be reviewed.

1022
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:15,080
We will.

1023
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,215
We will send you an office action

1024
00:35:17,215 --> 00:35:19,339
that acknowledges that response,

1025
00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:21,692
but that it's not being reviewed

1026
00:35:21,692 --> 00:35:24,245
and that the original timelines in

1027
00:35:24,245 --> 00:35:26,969
a third office action are maintained.

1028
00:35:26,970 --> 00:35:28,553
If there is time left, however,

1029
00:35:28,553 --> 00:35:30,394
before the end of the grace period,

1030
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,776
you can file a new Section 8 or 71,

1031
00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:35,420
but you will pay all the new fees for that,

1032
00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:37,184
and any deletions made to the registration

1033
00:35:37,184 --> 00:35:38,850
up to that point will remain.

1034
00:35:38,850 --> 00:35:40,698
Now that you don't escape the audit,

1035
00:35:40,700 --> 00:35:42,278
so you can still do that,

1036
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,114
you still have the benefit of filing

1037
00:35:44,114 --> 00:35:45,980
before the end of the grace period,

1038
00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:48,680
but it does come with its

1039
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,480
own set of challenges.

1040
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,467
As I noted,

1041
00:35:51,467 --> 00:35:53,112
response deadlines for 3rd office

1042
00:35:53,112 --> 00:35:55,054
actions are different than the 1st

1043
00:35:55,054 --> 00:35:56,890
and 2nd Office Action No later

1044
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:58,648
than six months from the issue

1045
00:35:58,648 --> 00:36:00,096
date of the office action,

1046
00:36:00,096 --> 00:36:02,308
both for filing a petition or for

1047
00:36:02,308 --> 00:36:04,167
requesting that the goods or services

1048
00:36:04,167 --> 00:36:06,296
are deleted with payment of all fees

1049
00:36:06,296 --> 00:36:08,144
in that response to office action.

1050
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:10,320
If no response comes in at all,

1051
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,180
the entire registration will be cancelled.

1052
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,510
Alright, so taking a little

1053
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:18,776
break from procedure,

1054
00:36:18,780 --> 00:36:20,364
let's talk some results.

1055
00:36:20,364 --> 00:36:23,274
This chart here shows results of data

1056
00:36:23,274 --> 00:36:26,730
programs through April 30th, 2021.

1057
00:36:26,730 --> 00:36:29,442
And we've issued just under 15,000

1058
00:36:29,442 --> 00:36:32,400
first actions by the end of April,

1059
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,346
and 11,820 responses come in in

1060
00:36:35,346 --> 00:36:37,310
that disparity between issued

1061
00:36:37,394 --> 00:36:39,809
in response is that has to be.

1062
00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:41,990
That's due partially to cancellations,

1063
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:45,358
so up until that point we had roughly

1064
00:36:45,358 --> 00:36:47,611
1500 cancellations and the remaining

1065
00:36:47,611 --> 00:36:50,275
number is just pending files where

1066
00:36:50,275 --> 00:36:52,450
office actions have gone out,

1067
00:36:52,450 --> 00:36:54,665
but responses haven't come in

1068
00:36:54,665 --> 00:36:56,880
yet of responses received it.

1069
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,280
6087 registrations have deleted goods,

1070
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,518
services or classes and that's 51%.

1071
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,725
51% so more than half of all

1072
00:37:07,725 --> 00:37:09,104
registrations who have submitted

1073
00:37:09,104 --> 00:37:11,324
a response have deleted at least

1074
00:37:11,324 --> 00:37:13,060
something in that response.

1075
00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:15,220
When you factor in the cancellation

1076
00:37:15,220 --> 00:37:17,010
rate that goes to 57%.

1077
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,500
Looking at the last two lines,

1078
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:23,840
percent represented by US attorney that

1079
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,960
is at 82% have attorneys on these files,

1080
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,300
and that is upset from 79%

1081
00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:30,756
when this program started.

1082
00:37:30,756 --> 00:37:33,590
It could be a variety of factors,

1083
00:37:33,590 --> 00:37:36,785
but one of them likely is that ever since

1084
00:37:36,785 --> 00:37:39,827
the US Council rule came into effect,

1085
00:37:39,830 --> 00:37:41,390
requiring US council before,

1086
00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:43,294
and domiciled entities, that is,

1087
00:37:43,294 --> 00:37:45,863
there's been an uptick of number of

1088
00:37:45,863 --> 00:37:48,690
audits for those Council representation.

1089
00:37:48,690 --> 00:37:52,299
Some additional statistics.

1090
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,820
Of the 1500 or so that it's

1091
00:37:54,820 --> 00:37:56,300
actually from June 1st.

1092
00:37:56,300 --> 00:37:59,216
This is an updated hot off the press that

1093
00:37:59,216 --> 00:38:02,486
we had 15174 cancellations as of June 1st,

1094
00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:04,716
but of those 13160 were no response

1095
00:38:04,716 --> 00:38:07,588
at all to the initial office action.

1096
00:38:07,590 --> 00:38:09,858
So most of our cancellations are by

1097
00:38:09,858 --> 00:38:12,385
far most are from files where they

1098
00:38:12,385 --> 00:38:14,611
got the first action audit letter

1099
00:38:14,685 --> 00:38:17,049
and just no response was submitted.

1100
00:38:19,290 --> 00:38:21,565
We issue about 33% of all audits.

1101
00:38:21,570 --> 00:38:23,520
Go to a second office action,

1102
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,470
meaning that they didn't satisfy the

1103
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:28,102
audit in response to a First off in

1104
00:38:28,102 --> 00:38:29,687
their first office action response.

1105
00:38:29,690 --> 00:38:31,315
An about only 5% make

1106
00:38:31,315 --> 00:38:32,940
it to 1/3 office action.

1107
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,945
And looking at the results

1108
00:38:37,945 --> 00:38:40,290
to date by filing basis.

1109
00:38:40,290 --> 00:38:42,782
You can see under Section 1A it's

1110
00:38:42,782 --> 00:38:44,918
slightly it's 47% have had to

1111
00:38:44,918 --> 00:38:46,698
make deletions in their responses,

1112
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:48,902
but then you look at the

1113
00:38:48,902 --> 00:38:50,610
three foreign based 44 E,

1114
00:38:50,610 --> 00:38:52,851
66 A and one 1844 and you can see

1115
00:38:52,851 --> 00:38:54,987
it's significantly higher and this

1116
00:38:54,987 --> 00:38:56,799
has been consistent throughout

1117
00:38:56,799 --> 00:38:59,159
the life of the audit program.

1118
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,005
We have been in that mid 60% range

1119
00:39:02,005 --> 00:39:04,135
for all three of those bases,

1120
00:39:04,140 --> 00:39:06,396
and so we will look to see how

1121
00:39:06,396 --> 00:39:08,432
the new feral alters these

1122
00:39:08,432 --> 00:39:10,296
statistics as that keeps.

1123
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:11,892
Getting a diffused as

1124
00:39:11,892 --> 00:39:13,484
our program goes forward,

1125
00:39:13,490 --> 00:39:16,306
and if you were just curious in a

1126
00:39:16,306 --> 00:39:19,077
breakdown of audit percentage by basis,

1127
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,705
78% of all audits are one a

1128
00:39:21,705 --> 00:39:24,224
basis and the next highest is

1129
00:39:24,224 --> 00:39:27,060
15% and that's the 66 a basis.

1130
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:30,244
The other 44 in one one and 44.

1131
00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:34,086
You are a bit more marginal statistically.

1132
00:39:34,090 --> 00:39:36,094
This is the slide shows our

1133
00:39:36,094 --> 00:39:37,096
monthly deletion percentage.

1134
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:38,770
This is an interesting insight.

1135
00:39:38,770 --> 00:39:40,320
It looks at the responses

1136
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,299
reviewed in a month long period

1137
00:39:42,299 --> 00:39:44,109
for on a registration basis.

1138
00:39:44,110 --> 00:39:46,105
How many of those registrations

1139
00:39:46,105 --> 00:39:48,100
with the response getting reviewed

1140
00:39:48,164 --> 00:39:50,194
had a deletion and this kind of

1141
00:39:50,194 --> 00:39:52,459
fluctuates a bit up and down per month.

1142
00:39:52,460 --> 00:39:54,326
There's an asterisk for April 2021

1143
00:39:54,326 --> 00:39:56,691
because we were on hold for several

1144
00:39:56,691 --> 00:39:58,803
months while we implemented the rule,

1145
00:39:58,810 --> 00:40:00,784
but it's never since the since

1146
00:40:00,784 --> 00:40:02,809
this light goes back two years.

1147
00:40:02,810 --> 00:40:04,570
But since the program's inception.

1148
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:07,190
We've never had less than 40% the month,

1149
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:09,850
and we've never been higher than 60%.

1150
00:40:09,850 --> 00:40:11,516
And so this is also something that

1151
00:40:11,516 --> 00:40:13,253
we're going to chart and look to

1152
00:40:13,253 --> 00:40:14,711
see going forward with the feral

1153
00:40:14,761 --> 00:40:16,273
and whether we can start seeing

1154
00:40:16,273 --> 00:40:17,557
a trend of declining monthly

1155
00:40:17,557 --> 00:40:18,358
deletion percentage here.

1156
00:40:18,358 --> 00:40:19,960
We hope the book that will

1157
00:40:20,011 --> 00:40:21,259
see that with the new feral.

1158
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,716
Responding to an audit,

1159
00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:28,761
this is a tease elektroniksystem

1160
00:40:28,761 --> 00:40:30,328
centric couple of slides.

1161
00:40:30,330 --> 00:40:32,874
Here we want to highlight a

1162
00:40:32,874 --> 00:40:35,024
few changes that were made

1163
00:40:35,024 --> 00:40:37,593
to the T system late in 2020.

1164
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,000
That gave it gave specific portions

1165
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,260
of the forms to respond to an audit.

1166
00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:44,508
Not only that,

1167
00:40:44,508 --> 00:40:47,004
because there are so many deletions

1168
00:40:47,004 --> 00:40:49,053
improvements were made to the

1169
00:40:49,053 --> 00:40:50,613
modification of an identification

1170
00:40:50,613 --> 00:40:53,442
of goods and services field to work

1171
00:40:53,442 --> 00:40:55,422
together with the audit portions.

1172
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:56,948
And so looking at the slide,

1173
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:58,990
little might be a little hard to read,

1174
00:40:58,990 --> 00:40:59,749
so I apologize.

1175
00:40:59,749 --> 00:41:00,508
And you know,

1176
00:41:00,510 --> 00:41:02,028
when you get the slide deck,

1177
00:41:02,030 --> 00:41:03,560
it'll be a little more clear,

1178
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,441
but we hope you can do the best here

1179
00:41:05,441 --> 00:41:07,505
at this number 2 and the wizard asked

1180
00:41:07,505 --> 00:41:09,472
you didn't do any of the following

1181
00:41:09,472 --> 00:41:11,176
in the middle bullet point there

1182
00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:12,872
is to modify the unification of

1183
00:41:12,872 --> 00:41:14,480
goods or services you're going to

1184
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,176
click yes to number 2 if you have

1185
00:41:16,226 --> 00:41:18,025
to enter any kind of deletions in

1186
00:41:18,025 --> 00:41:19,816
your response and #3 immediately below is,

1187
00:41:19,816 --> 00:41:21,340
you need to respond to approve,

1188
00:41:21,340 --> 00:41:21,840
use, audit,

1189
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,340
so you want to make sure

1190
00:41:23,340 --> 00:41:24,638
two and three or yes,

1191
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:25,970
if you're making any deletions.

1192
00:41:25,970 --> 00:41:27,788
You're not making any deletions and

1193
00:41:27,788 --> 00:41:29,489
just submitting proof of use then

1194
00:41:29,489 --> 00:41:31,225
only three has to be yes and less.

1195
00:41:31,230 --> 00:41:33,255
Another issue has to get

1196
00:41:33,255 --> 00:41:35,280
addressed from the other options.

1197
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,890
And what this looks like is when you go

1198
00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:40,820
to make your goods and services changes,

1199
00:41:40,820 --> 00:41:42,445
there's a track changes feature

1200
00:41:42,445 --> 00:41:45,163
and in this grey box at the very

1201
00:41:45,163 --> 00:41:46,878
bottom it says modify identification

1202
00:41:46,878 --> 00:41:49,416
and so your ID will populate in

1203
00:41:49,416 --> 00:41:51,196
their annual highlight with your

1204
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:52,584
mouse or highlighting device.

1205
00:41:52,584 --> 00:41:55,688
Any of the text that you wish to delete,

1206
00:41:55,690 --> 00:41:57,906
and if you hit the delete button it

1207
00:41:57,906 --> 00:42:00,188
will then strikethrough that wording,

1208
00:42:00,190 --> 00:42:02,894
and so once you've ended all of that

1209
00:42:02,894 --> 00:42:05,569
and you hit continue in the form.

1210
00:42:05,570 --> 00:42:07,465
It'll reflect those changes elsewhere

1211
00:42:07,465 --> 00:42:10,310
in the TS form and my elsewhere,

1212
00:42:10,310 --> 00:42:10,958
I mean.

1213
00:42:10,958 --> 00:42:13,226
Here in the proof of use portion

1214
00:42:13,226 --> 00:42:15,893
this is only a portion of the proof

1215
00:42:15,893 --> 00:42:18,019
of use section of the TS form.

1216
00:42:18,020 --> 00:42:19,973
But if you look at the current

1217
00:42:19,973 --> 00:42:21,746
listing of good and services for

1218
00:42:21,746 --> 00:42:24,030
class in this case is the Class 25.

1219
00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:25,455
It will reflect the modified

1220
00:42:25,455 --> 00:42:26,595
ID from the deletions,

1221
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,700
and this is very helpful because if

1222
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:30,766
you are deleting all sorts of items

1223
00:42:30,766 --> 00:42:32,890
and you have to provide proof of use,

1224
00:42:32,890 --> 00:42:34,556
you really only want to look at

1225
00:42:34,556 --> 00:42:36,317
what it is that you're providing

1226
00:42:36,317 --> 00:42:38,291
proof of use when you're adding

1227
00:42:38,291 --> 00:42:40,038
your images to the form here,

1228
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,259
so your modified ID will show up.

1229
00:42:42,260 --> 00:42:44,090
In this table and select the

1230
00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:45,985
first radio button proof of use

1231
00:42:45,985 --> 00:42:47,510
provided below for this class.

1232
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:49,680
This will then refresh and it will.

1233
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,236
It will show a series of boxes where you

1234
00:42:52,236 --> 00:42:55,237
can attach your proof of use and describe it.

1235
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:56,780
I wanted to highlight two

1236
00:42:56,780 --> 00:42:58,012
portions of the forms.

1237
00:42:58,020 --> 00:42:59,560
First it says auto good.

1238
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,110
Just service with the red

1239
00:43:01,110 --> 00:43:02,350
assets are acquired box,

1240
00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:04,506
so that's where you would type in.

1241
00:43:04,510 --> 00:43:06,736
Proof of you submitted for and you

1242
00:43:06,736 --> 00:43:08,587
would indicate that the name of

1243
00:43:08,587 --> 00:43:10,526
the goods or services that we asked

1244
00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:12,390
for and then immediately below

1245
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:14,190
it says describe the attached.

1246
00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:15,234
Evidence for this item.

1247
00:43:15,234 --> 00:43:17,899
This goes back to what I referenced earlier,

1248
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:19,874
where a phrase like image of mark

1249
00:43:19,874 --> 00:43:21,920
on goods is not super helpful,

1250
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,880
so you want to take this time

1251
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,620
to use this require box.

1252
00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:27,480
Indicate you know Mark on sweatshirt

1253
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,069
goods or you want to be as precise as

1254
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:32,110
possible and if it's more complicated,

1255
00:43:32,110 --> 00:43:33,660
kind of proves being offered.

1256
00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:36,243
Take the time to use that box to describe

1257
00:43:36,243 --> 00:43:38,290
exactly what it is you're submitting.

1258
00:43:38,290 --> 00:43:41,330
The more context, the better.

1259
00:43:41,330 --> 00:43:43,670
At the very bottom of this image is a boxes.

1260
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:45,259
Click here to attach a proof of

1261
00:43:45,259 --> 00:43:46,821
use that just does the upload or

1262
00:43:46,821 --> 00:43:48,371
that you have a lot of flexibility

1263
00:43:48,371 --> 00:43:50,427
in these forms to put all the data

1264
00:43:50,427 --> 00:43:51,860
that we need in various places.

1265
00:43:51,860 --> 00:43:52,992
So don't be shy,

1266
00:43:52,992 --> 00:43:55,870
get all of it into the form and you can

1267
00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:58,688
give us as much as we can to look at.

1268
00:43:58,690 --> 00:43:58,997
Lastly,

1269
00:43:58,997 --> 00:44:00,839
the this slide shows the fees

1270
00:44:00,839 --> 00:44:02,130
as the topic does,

1271
00:44:02,130 --> 00:44:03,695
or the last question the

1272
00:44:03,695 --> 00:44:05,260
wizard is going to be.

1273
00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:07,660
Do you have to submit any fees and

1274
00:44:07,660 --> 00:44:10,270
as long as they submit yes to that,

1275
00:44:10,270 --> 00:44:12,349
it will trigger the menu and this

1276
00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:14,030
slide shows the very bottom.

1277
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:15,920
Here in this red box the last

1278
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,543
item is the deletion fee an on the

1279
00:44:18,543 --> 00:44:20,288
right you'll see a multiplier,

1280
00:44:20,290 --> 00:44:22,250
so you can use that multiplier to

1281
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:24,426
get to the right amount that you

1282
00:44:24,426 --> 00:44:27,100
have to submit for your fees as we

1283
00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:29,200
talked about with six successive fees.

1284
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,376
You might need to do a little bit

1285
00:44:31,376 --> 00:44:33,050
of math to calculate it,

1286
00:44:33,050 --> 00:44:35,322
but you can do that all here and

1287
00:44:35,322 --> 00:44:36,300
then immediately above.

1288
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:37,780
That is the deficiency fee,

1289
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:39,538
so they are paired together and

1290
00:44:39,538 --> 00:44:41,339
that's where you can handle it.

1291
00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:42,846
Selecting all the right fees and

1292
00:44:42,846 --> 00:44:44,629
take care of the payment at

1293
00:44:44,629 --> 00:44:46,065
the appropriate payment screen.

1294
00:44:46,070 --> 00:44:48,030
And with that I will turn this

1295
00:44:48,030 --> 00:44:49,330
back over to Montia.

1296
00:44:49,330 --> 00:44:49,655
Yeah,

1297
00:44:49,655 --> 00:44:51,930
just going to bring us home in

1298
00:44:51,930 --> 00:44:54,248
how to prepare for an audit.

1299
00:44:54,250 --> 00:44:55,984
Thank you Jordan.

1300
00:44:55,984 --> 00:44:56,562
OK,

1301
00:44:56,562 --> 00:44:59,452
waiting on the slides alright.

1302
00:44:59,460 --> 00:45:01,070
Alrighty so as Jordan mentioned

1303
00:45:01,070 --> 00:45:02,036
a little earlier,

1304
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,685
we've audited almost 15,000 registrations

1305
00:45:03,685 --> 00:45:05,920
in the permanent program A since 2017,

1306
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,320
and we plan to audit at least 5000

1307
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,120
registrations a year going forward.

1308
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,986
So there's a very good chance

1309
00:45:11,986 --> 00:45:13,613
that you'll receive an audit

1310
00:45:13,613 --> 00:45:15,515
office action at some point from

1311
00:45:15,515 --> 00:45:17,548
the stats that were just shared,

1312
00:45:17,550 --> 00:45:19,075
it's really clear that there's

1313
00:45:19,075 --> 00:45:21,596
still work to be done to prop the

1314
00:45:21,596 --> 00:45:23,151
changes in filing behavior that

1315
00:45:23,151 --> 00:45:25,534
we'd like to see to improve the

1316
00:45:25,534 --> 00:45:27,234
register integrity issues that we've

1317
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:29,346
seen since we started the program.

1318
00:45:29,350 --> 00:45:31,758
Way back in 2012 as a pilot,

1319
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,686
we do hope as your dimension

1320
00:45:33,686 --> 00:45:35,674
that the recent changes like the

1321
00:45:35,674 --> 00:45:37,921
deletion fee as well as the upcoming

1322
00:45:37,921 --> 00:45:40,228
policy changes will help to speed

1323
00:45:40,228 --> 00:45:41,383
along that improvement.

1324
00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:43,058
O will end with a few

1325
00:45:43,058 --> 00:45:44,170
reminders about the legal

1326
00:45:44,237 --> 00:45:45,873
obligations of declaration for

1327
00:45:45,873 --> 00:45:47,509
decorations and all submissions

1328
00:45:47,509 --> 00:45:49,717
to the office and provide some

1329
00:45:49,717 --> 00:45:51,709
tips for preparing for an audit.

1330
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:58,230
So First off another reminder.

1331
00:45:58,230 --> 00:46:00,558
Hear that when about the importance

1332
00:46:00,558 --> 00:46:02,788
of accurate listing goods and services

1333
00:46:02,788 --> 00:46:05,228
that are in use in commerce in your

1334
00:46:05,299 --> 00:46:07,285
Section 8 and 71 declaration when

1335
00:46:07,285 --> 00:46:09,314
you file them with our office,

1336
00:46:09,314 --> 00:46:11,426
the person signing is swearing that

1337
00:46:11,426 --> 00:46:14,260
the mark is in use with the goods and

1338
00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:16,220
services listed in the declaration,

1339
00:46:16,220 --> 00:46:17,950
and that's a specimen submitted.

1340
00:46:17,950 --> 00:46:20,370
Show current use in commerce

1341
00:46:20,370 --> 00:46:22,790
with those goods and services.

1342
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:25,118
And whoever signs or files that

1343
00:46:25,118 --> 00:46:26,670
declaration is certifying that,

1344
00:46:26,670 --> 00:46:28,998
to the best of their knowledge,

1345
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,548
information and belief formed

1346
00:46:30,548 --> 00:46:32,096
after after an inquiry,

1347
00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:33,648
reasonable under the circumstances,

1348
00:46:33,648 --> 00:46:35,583
the contentions have evidentiary support.

1349
00:46:35,590 --> 00:46:38,266
Two things to highlight their the

1350
00:46:38,266 --> 00:46:40,050
requirements for reasonable inquiry

1351
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:41,895
and for evidentiary support will

1352
00:46:41,895 --> 00:46:44,520
return to both of them in a moment.

1353
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,925
Note that criminal penalties are

1354
00:46:46,925 --> 00:46:49,330
available for knowingly and willfully

1355
00:46:49,404 --> 00:46:51,328
making any false statements.

1356
00:46:51,330 --> 00:46:52,050
In fact,

1357
00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:54,210
all submissions with to our office

1358
00:46:54,210 --> 00:46:56,287
must comply with the requirement

1359
00:46:56,287 --> 00:46:58,007
for a reasonable inquiry,

1360
00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:59,638
an evidentiary support where

1361
00:46:59,638 --> 00:47:01,673
appropriate submissions must not be

1362
00:47:01,673 --> 00:47:03,507
presented for any improper purpose,

1363
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:06,254
and they must comply with existing laws.

1364
00:47:06,260 --> 00:47:10,256
Sanctions are available for non compliance.

1365
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:11,804
Returning to the requirement

1366
00:47:11,804 --> 00:47:13,348
for a reasonable inquiry,

1367
00:47:13,350 --> 00:47:15,280
what would be considered reasonable

1368
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,210
is really highly fact specific.

1369
00:47:17,210 --> 00:47:18,290
So for example,

1370
00:47:18,290 --> 00:47:20,810
in cases where an attorney submits a

1371
00:47:20,884 --> 00:47:23,380
declaration that signed by a client,

1372
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:24,880
the question of reasonableness

1373
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,130
of that inquiry may depend on

1374
00:47:27,196 --> 00:47:29,072
the client sophistication and

1375
00:47:29,072 --> 00:47:30,948
experience with trademark law.

1376
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:32,706
Attorney should ensure though,

1377
00:47:32,706 --> 00:47:34,901
that their clients understand the

1378
00:47:34,901 --> 00:47:36,932
requirement for use in commerce and

1379
00:47:36,932 --> 00:47:38,875
that their clients have taken the

1380
00:47:38,875 --> 00:47:40,987
appropriate steps to confirm use an

1381
00:47:40,987 --> 00:47:42,862
eternally an attorney general may

1382
00:47:42,862 --> 00:47:44,892
rely on information that's provided

1383
00:47:44,892 --> 00:47:47,011
by a properly educated client

1384
00:47:47,011 --> 00:47:49,489
unless the attorney has reason to

1385
00:47:49,489 --> 00:47:51,853
believe that the information is

1386
00:47:51,853 --> 00:47:53,320
inaccurate or incomplete.

1387
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,590
Attorney should review all relevant

1388
00:47:55,590 --> 00:47:58,339
information and discuss with the client

1389
00:47:58,339 --> 00:48:00,781
any documents or other information that

1390
00:48:00,781 --> 00:48:03,680
appears on its face to be questionable.

1391
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,148
Returning to the requirement

1392
00:48:05,148 --> 00:48:06,249
for evidentiary support,

1393
00:48:06,250 --> 00:48:08,480
consider creating a checklist by

1394
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,402
listing each good and service in the

1395
00:48:11,402 --> 00:48:13,874
ID on a separate line by cutting and

1396
00:48:13,951 --> 00:48:16,466
pasting that information from TSDR.

1397
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:19,214
And when use of a mark is confirmed,

1398
00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:21,380
take photographs of the goods print

1399
00:48:21,380 --> 00:48:23,468
supporting web pages and URLs with

1400
00:48:23,468 --> 00:48:25,526
the date of printing and keep any

1401
00:48:25,526 --> 00:48:26,612
other supporting documentation

1402
00:48:26,612 --> 00:48:29,174
for your records so that you do

1403
00:48:29,174 --> 00:48:32,390
have that evidentiary support.

1404
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:34,952
If use of commerce can't be confirmed

1405
00:48:34,952 --> 00:48:38,190
as soon as you can and before you file

1406
00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:40,789
that Section 8 or 71 declaration,

1407
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:43,240
take advantage of that new zero fee

1408
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:45,601
option for filing a section several

1409
00:48:45,601 --> 00:48:47,666
requests and delete those goods,

1410
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:49,956
services and classes from your registration,

1411
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,165
proactively ensuring that IDs and

1412
00:48:52,165 --> 00:48:53,488
registrations accurately accurately

1413
00:48:53,488 --> 00:48:55,404
reflect goods and services using

1414
00:48:55,404 --> 00:48:57,348
commerce and even before you approach

1415
00:48:57,348 --> 00:48:58,830
your statutory filing deadlines

1416
00:48:58,830 --> 00:49:00,660
will be even more important.

1417
00:49:00,660 --> 00:49:02,260
Once our reexamination expungement

1418
00:49:02,260 --> 00:49:03,460
mechanisms are available.

1419
00:49:03,460 --> 00:49:05,404
So if you know that use of a mark

1420
00:49:05,404 --> 00:49:07,912
with any goods and services has been

1421
00:49:07,912 --> 00:49:09,910
permanently discontinued or never started,

1422
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:10,492
delete them.

1423
00:49:10,492 --> 00:49:11,947
Or you should consider deleting

1424
00:49:11,947 --> 00:49:12,820
them from your

1425
00:49:12,878 --> 00:49:14,508
registration as soon as possible.

1426
00:49:14,510 --> 00:49:16,654
You do have the option still to delete

1427
00:49:16,654 --> 00:49:18,562
the goods and services within your

1428
00:49:18,562 --> 00:49:20,536
Section 8 or 71 declaration itself

1429
00:49:20,596 --> 00:49:22,484
without paying the fee, but again,

1430
00:49:22,484 --> 00:49:24,598
we really want to encourage you to

1431
00:49:24,598 --> 00:49:26,969
use that free section seven option and

1432
00:49:26,969 --> 00:49:29,458
delete them as soon as you are aware

1433
00:49:29,458 --> 00:49:32,036
that those items are not in use and

1434
00:49:32,036 --> 00:49:34,874
that there's no excusable nonuse claim.

1435
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,833
And finally, we like to encourage you

1436
00:49:36,833 --> 00:49:39,441
to take a look at our updated audit web

1437
00:49:39,441 --> 00:49:41,540
page for even more information about

1438
00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:43,785
audit procedures we recently added,

1439
00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:46,044
for example proof of use examples to

1440
00:49:46,044 --> 00:49:48,971
the page to give you a sense of what

1441
00:49:48,971 --> 00:49:51,379
would be acceptable as an approved use.

1442
00:49:51,380 --> 00:49:53,420
We hope that the information provided

1443
00:49:53,420 --> 00:49:55,440
today and available on our website

1444
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,240
will help you to complete that

1445
00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:58,639
audit with one response,

1446
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,168
so I think that's the end of our

1447
00:50:01,168 --> 00:50:03,263
presentation and we're going to take

1448
00:50:03,263 --> 00:50:05,351
some questions and I believe that.

1449
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,595
Jason Lot is going to be returning.

1450
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,804
Yes, I am returning.

1451
00:50:10,804 --> 00:50:12,008
Thank you very much.

1452
00:50:12,010 --> 00:50:13,810
Montia thank you very much Jordan.

1453
00:50:13,810 --> 00:50:15,225
Alright folks, we're going to

1454
00:50:15,225 --> 00:50:17,130
now shift into the Q&A portion.

1455
00:50:17,130 --> 00:50:19,298
We know that a lot of you have

1456
00:50:19,298 --> 00:50:21,039
been sending in some questions.

1457
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,979
Thank you very much for sending those

1458
00:50:22,979 --> 00:50:24,950
in some great questions coming in.

1459
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:26,460
If you have a question,

1460
00:50:26,460 --> 00:50:27,268
haven't asked it yet,

1461
00:50:27,268 --> 00:50:28,480
please feel free to send to

1462
00:50:28,529 --> 00:50:29,770
tm_webinar@uspto.gov.

1463
00:50:29,770 --> 00:50:31,786
Please note we're going to do our

1464
00:50:31,786 --> 00:50:34,339
best to answer as many of them as we

1465
00:50:34,339 --> 00:50:36,090
possibly can and inside remaining,

1466
00:50:36,090 --> 00:50:38,337
but also be aware and I'm not

1467
00:50:38,337 --> 00:50:39,600
necessarily seeing these yet.

1468
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,316
But please try and avoid very

1469
00:50:41,316 --> 00:50:42,460
specific questions because we

1470
00:50:42,515 --> 00:50:43,727
cannot give legal advice,

1471
00:50:43,730 --> 00:50:45,602
so we can't necessarily give an

1472
00:50:45,602 --> 00:50:47,570
answer that is going to say yes.

1473
00:50:47,570 --> 00:50:48,714
This is totally fine.

1474
00:50:48,714 --> 00:50:50,810
So you know you know the deal,

1475
00:50:50,810 --> 00:50:52,875
so feel free to send those in.

1476
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,350
I haven't seen any yet,

1477
00:50:54,350 --> 00:50:56,415
but if you have any TMI questions,

1478
00:50:56,420 --> 00:50:58,478
please hold off on sending those in,

1479
00:50:58,480 --> 00:50:59,068
because really,

1480
00:50:59,068 --> 00:51:00,538
we're just focusing on post

1481
00:51:00,538 --> 00:51:01,730
registration audit stuff today.

1482
00:51:01,730 --> 00:51:03,428
We do have a round table

1483
00:51:03,428 --> 00:51:04,970
coming up on June 14th.

1484
00:51:04,970 --> 00:51:07,418
I'm going to show you the web page for

1485
00:51:07,418 --> 00:51:09,761
that before we close out today, but.

1486
00:51:09,761 --> 00:51:12,288
Just want to keep that in mind.

1487
00:51:12,290 --> 00:51:15,114
Hold on to those TMI questions 'cause we

1488
00:51:15,114 --> 00:51:17,931
are going to answer him, just not today.

1489
00:51:17,931 --> 00:51:20,013
So our first question is going

1490
00:51:20,013 --> 00:51:21,849
to be to Jordan Jordan.

1491
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:23,266
Go right ahead alright?

1492
00:51:23,266 --> 00:51:26,084
Well, each read the question and then answer.

1493
00:51:26,090 --> 00:51:27,860
So the first question is,

1494
00:51:27,860 --> 00:51:29,975
are all registrations meeting the

1495
00:51:29,975 --> 00:51:32,424
specific criteria of the Section 8

1496
00:51:32,424 --> 00:51:34,584
or 71 selected for audit and if not,

1497
00:51:34,590 --> 00:51:36,006
what percentage of qualifying

1498
00:51:36,006 --> 00:51:37,068
registrations are audited?

1499
00:51:37,070 --> 00:51:40,006
Good question and no 'cause that would be.

1500
00:51:40,010 --> 00:51:42,135
Former audits that we've been

1501
00:51:42,135 --> 00:51:44,260
able to conduct per year.

1502
00:51:44,260 --> 00:51:47,364
So our goal has been 5000 audits I

1503
00:51:47,364 --> 00:51:50,636
can let in the last several years.

1504
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,974
Our total post registration number for

1505
00:51:52,974 --> 00:51:56,587
Section 8 and 71 is somewhere around 180,000,

1506
00:51:56,590 --> 00:51:57,438
I believe.

1507
00:51:57,438 --> 00:52:00,406
Within range of couple higher or lower,

1508
00:52:00,410 --> 00:52:03,686
so we're as much smaller percentage and

1509
00:52:03,686 --> 00:52:07,111
then the software gives us a list of

1510
00:52:07,111 --> 00:52:09,935
usually a couple thousand or so eligible

1511
00:52:09,935 --> 00:52:13,451
files per per biweekly go bye bye bye week.

1512
00:52:13,451 --> 00:52:15,779
But then we have to go through them

1513
00:52:15,779 --> 00:52:18,173
and many files are not eligible

1514
00:52:18,173 --> 00:52:20,208
because thankfully we've gotten too

1515
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,737
many good specimens once they come in,

1516
00:52:22,740 --> 00:52:25,665
so you may as these as the auto program

1517
00:52:25,665 --> 00:52:28,338
has gone on for several years now.

1518
00:52:28,340 --> 00:52:31,020
People are aware of it and they have

1519
00:52:31,020 --> 00:52:33,209
improved the quality an up their

1520
00:52:33,209 --> 00:52:35,381
section 870 ones and the quantity

1521
00:52:35,456 --> 00:52:37,436
of how many specimens we get.

1522
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,444
And of course, if there's nothing

1523
00:52:39,444 --> 00:52:41,989
for us to ask for reviews for,

1524
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:43,990
it's not eligible for audit.

1525
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:46,024
So I don't have a percentage

1526
00:52:46,024 --> 00:52:47,380
number for you there,

1527
00:52:47,380 --> 00:52:49,075
but it's definitely not anywhere

1528
00:52:49,075 --> 00:52:50,770
close to everything that's eligible,

1529
00:52:50,770 --> 00:52:52,922
and I don't think we'll be able to

1530
00:52:52,922 --> 00:52:55,246
put a number on the qualifying part

1531
00:52:55,246 --> 00:52:57,814
because we have to go through and

1532
00:52:57,814 --> 00:53:00,154
make sure we don't select things

1533
00:53:00,154 --> 00:53:02,292
where there's nothing to ask for,

1534
00:53:02,292 --> 00:53:03,306
but the numbers.

1535
00:53:03,310 --> 00:53:05,362
Keep in mind there's about 180,000

1536
00:53:05,362 --> 00:53:07,782
Section 8 and 71 the year filing

1537
00:53:07,782 --> 00:53:09,750
at our goals do 5000 audits.

1538
00:53:12,460 --> 00:53:14,805
OK next. OK, so my question is,

1539
00:53:14,810 --> 00:53:17,114
is there any way to avoid both the

1540
00:53:17,114 --> 00:53:19,460
$250 deletion fee and the 100 fifteen

1541
00:53:19,460 --> 00:53:21,170
$100 surcharge for deleting goods

1542
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:23,210
and services from a registration?

1543
00:53:23,210 --> 00:53:24,890
And the answer is yes,

1544
00:53:24,890 --> 00:53:27,506
and the answer is the rest of the

1545
00:53:27,506 --> 00:53:29,259
question which is for example,

1546
00:53:29,260 --> 00:53:31,378
can we delete goods services from

1547
00:53:31,378 --> 00:53:33,166
a registration before filing the

1548
00:53:33,166 --> 00:53:35,357
Section 8 or 71 declaration or or

1549
00:53:35,357 --> 00:53:36,701
concurrently with the maintenance

1550
00:53:36,701 --> 00:53:38,663
filing and not incur any fees?

1551
00:53:38,670 --> 00:53:40,350
So yes, that's absolutely the

1552
00:53:40,350 --> 00:53:42,030
way you should do it.

1553
00:53:42,030 --> 00:53:44,256
Again, we encourage you to file.

1554
00:53:44,260 --> 00:53:46,108
Your any deletions that you know.

1555
00:53:46,110 --> 00:53:47,730
If you know that you stopped

1556
00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:49,908
using a mark the goods with any

1557
00:53:49,908 --> 00:53:51,984
particular or services with the mark,

1558
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:53,615
delete the goods and services

1559
00:53:53,615 --> 00:53:55,871
as quickly as you can as early

1560
00:53:55,871 --> 00:53:57,545
in the process as you can,

1561
00:53:57,550 --> 00:53:59,412
and then you will not incur that

1562
00:53:59,412 --> 00:54:00,982
deletion fee or the deficiency

1563
00:54:00,982 --> 00:54:03,106
surcharge for deleting at that time.

1564
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,902
Thank you Montia. Yeah next question

1565
00:54:08,902 --> 00:54:12,020
is can a restaurant be sent in office

1566
00:54:12,020 --> 00:54:14,324
action based on Section 8 deficiencies

1567
00:54:14,397 --> 00:54:16,798
and also be sent a separate office

1568
00:54:16,798 --> 00:54:19,670
action based on an audit for the same

1569
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:22,309
Section 8 that's not supposed to happen,

1570
00:54:22,310 --> 00:54:24,536
it shouldn't? They should be all.

1571
00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:26,778
Be everything should be addressed together.

1572
00:54:26,780 --> 00:54:29,092
The I like to say that the audit

1573
00:54:29,092 --> 00:54:32,088
kind of layers on and over regular

1574
00:54:32,088 --> 00:54:33,495
post registration review.

1575
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:36,062
The audit examiner is always going

1576
00:54:36,062 --> 00:54:38,459
to review the Section 8 or 71.

1577
00:54:38,460 --> 00:54:40,764
Just like a post registration specialist

1578
00:54:40,764 --> 00:54:43,791
would review and then as long as it's an

1579
00:54:43,791 --> 00:54:45,900
eligible file they will add the audit.

1580
00:54:45,900 --> 00:54:47,124
On top of that.

1581
00:54:47,124 --> 00:54:48,960
So there shouldn't be any separate

1582
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:52,010
office actions, there's no.

1583
00:54:52,010 --> 00:54:54,450
Office action for a Section 8 coming out

1584
00:54:54,450 --> 00:54:56,619
of post registration that is deficiency

1585
00:54:56,619 --> 00:54:59,380
that gets handed off to the audits.

1586
00:54:59,380 --> 00:55:00,784
It there's no connection

1587
00:55:00,784 --> 00:55:02,966
between the groups that way, so.

1588
00:55:02,966 --> 00:55:05,096
Probably it answers that question.

1589
00:55:05,100 --> 00:55:06,099
Thank you Jordan.

1590
00:55:06,099 --> 00:55:09,102
OK, next one do deletion fees also apply to

1591
00:55:09,102 --> 00:55:11,900
goods that were actually in use in the past,

1592
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:12,731
such as CDs,

1593
00:55:12,731 --> 00:55:15,470
but are no longer used by the registrant,

1594
00:55:15,470 --> 00:55:16,970
IE there was no misrepresentation

1595
00:55:16,970 --> 00:55:18,470
but the goods services were

1596
00:55:18,523 --> 00:55:19,999
phased out since registration.

1597
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,620
So the answer is yes,

1598
00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:23,650
we what you should be doing is

1599
00:55:23,650 --> 00:55:25,898
before you file your Section 8 or

1600
00:55:25,898 --> 00:55:27,866
71 declaration you should be doing

1601
00:55:27,932 --> 00:55:30,312
it in Victor like we described an

1602
00:55:30,312 --> 00:55:32,252
looking for evidence or proof that

1603
00:55:32,252 --> 00:55:35,050
the mark is in use with for example.

1604
00:55:35,050 --> 00:55:36,740
The CD's before you file.

1605
00:55:36,740 --> 00:55:39,106
You should delete that those CD's from

1606
00:55:39,106 --> 00:55:41,787
that Section 8 if you can't confirm you.

1607
00:55:41,790 --> 00:55:44,270
So if you don't delete them an you

1608
00:55:44,270 --> 00:55:46,909
file that Section 8 and then we

1609
00:55:46,909 --> 00:55:48,849
select the registration for audit

1610
00:55:48,925 --> 00:55:50,545
and we ask for the CDs,

1611
00:55:50,550 --> 00:55:51,182
then yes,

1612
00:55:51,182 --> 00:55:53,078
the the deletion feed would apply

1613
00:55:53,078 --> 00:55:54,896
because you would need to delete

1614
00:55:54,896 --> 00:55:56,582
those items in order to move

1615
00:55:56,648 --> 00:55:59,102
forward and have your Section 8

1616
00:55:59,102 --> 00:56:00,329
declaration accepted eventually.

1617
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:05,867
Alright, can one piece of proof of

1618
00:56:05,867 --> 00:56:09,581
use show use for more than one item in

1619
00:56:09,581 --> 00:56:12,050
the identification of goods services?

1620
00:56:12,050 --> 00:56:14,588
For example, an ID could include

1621
00:56:14,588 --> 00:56:15,857
chocolate confectionery containing

1622
00:56:15,857 --> 00:56:17,972
pray leans and chocolate confectionery

1623
00:56:17,972 --> 00:56:20,408
having a pray lean favorite flavor.

1624
00:56:20,410 --> 00:56:22,500
So yes, it certainly can.

1625
00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:24,684
This happens a lot in particular

1626
00:56:24,684 --> 00:56:26,720
classes that with the ID

1627
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:28,768
construction there's often overlap.

1628
00:56:28,770 --> 00:56:31,878
One example might be jewelry and rings

1629
00:56:31,878 --> 00:56:34,298
are separate items listed in ID.

1630
00:56:34,300 --> 00:56:36,496
And if we ask for rings,

1631
00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:38,696
that would be also able to

1632
00:56:38,696 --> 00:56:40,160
cover jewelry as well.

1633
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:40,908
We don't.

1634
00:56:40,908 --> 00:56:43,526
You do not need redundant submissions of

1635
00:56:43,526 --> 00:56:46,006
images to cover items that cover both,

1636
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:48,206
but doesn't hurt if you label

1637
00:56:48,206 --> 00:56:48,938
everything right.

1638
00:56:48,940 --> 00:56:51,502
As to the specificity of the chocolate

1639
00:56:51,502 --> 00:56:52,600
confectionery question raised,

1640
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,088
what I'd like to say is that we

1641
00:56:55,088 --> 00:56:57,441
always look at the common commercial

1642
00:56:57,441 --> 00:56:59,919
understanding of what a term is.

1643
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:04,569
It's in an ID, so we look to see how it is.

1644
00:57:04,570 --> 00:57:05,120
If you,

1645
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,045
if you did a search for that

1646
00:57:07,045 --> 00:57:09,228
term and we look to see how it's

1647
00:57:09,228 --> 00:57:10,890
sold in the marketplace,

1648
00:57:10,890 --> 00:57:12,400
how is it referred to?

1649
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,736
Because we also have a lot of redundant

1650
00:57:14,736 --> 00:57:16,507
redundancy in IDs where certain items

1651
00:57:16,507 --> 00:57:18,578
you a singular item made be described

1652
00:57:18,578 --> 00:57:20,516
in four or five different ways.

1653
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,530
We will take a single piece of proof of use.

1654
00:57:23,530 --> 00:57:26,239
If it does cover all five of those ways,

1655
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,409
as long as it's not some kind of specific

1656
00:57:28,409 --> 00:57:30,413
or technical nuance where it won't

1657
00:57:30,413 --> 00:57:32,560
really be appropriate for some reason,

1658
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:33,932
hot chocolate is always

1659
00:57:33,932 --> 00:57:35,647
one of those items that.

1660
00:57:35,650 --> 00:57:36,140
The beverage,

1661
00:57:36,140 --> 00:57:37,855
but it's got four or five different

1662
00:57:37,855 --> 00:57:38,908
listings for the same item.

1663
00:57:38,910 --> 00:57:41,160
It kind of comes up a lot and we really

1664
00:57:41,222 --> 00:57:43,302
try to go out of our way in an audit

1665
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,440
to not ask for the same thing twice,

1666
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:46,600
because that sort of defeats

1667
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:47,296
the doesn't really.

1668
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:48,924
The purpose of asking proof of use,

1669
00:57:48,930 --> 00:57:50,379
so we try to steer away from

1670
00:57:50,379 --> 00:57:51,572
asking from two different ways

1671
00:57:51,572 --> 00:57:53,126
of saying that the same item.

1672
00:57:55,970 --> 00:57:58,600
Q Jordan so the next one is if you are

1673
00:57:58,679 --> 00:58:01,037
required to pay a deficiency feet,

1674
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,248
will you be informed ahead of time or

1675
00:58:03,248 --> 00:58:05,402
must you anticipate that when submitting

1676
00:58:05,402 --> 00:58:08,048
so whether or not the deficiency fee

1677
00:58:08,048 --> 00:58:10,232
is owed in some cases will depend on,

1678
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:12,648
for instance, the the issue and the timing

1679
00:58:12,648 --> 00:58:14,990
when your office action first goes out.

1680
00:58:14,990 --> 00:58:17,286
So for instance, if if we're by the

1681
00:58:17,286 --> 00:58:19,428
time the office action goes out,

1682
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:22,040
if you file in period one and you file

1683
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,001
your original Section 8 in period one and

1684
00:58:25,001 --> 00:58:27,876
that office action is going out in period 2.

1685
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,224
Then we will tell you that, for instance,

1686
00:58:30,224 --> 00:58:31,976
if you have a specimen issue,

1687
00:58:31,980 --> 00:58:33,738
you're going to need to pay

1688
00:58:33,738 --> 00:58:34,910
that that deficiency surcharge.

1689
00:58:34,910 --> 00:58:36,668
But in other cases, for example,

1690
00:58:36,670 --> 00:58:38,462
if you file really early on in

1691
00:58:38,462 --> 00:58:39,896
period one where there's still

1692
00:58:39,896 --> 00:58:42,031
time left when you could in theory

1693
00:58:42,031 --> 00:58:43,700
respond within that same period,

1694
00:58:43,700 --> 00:58:46,337
one we don't know whether or not you will,

1695
00:58:46,340 --> 00:58:47,408
oh a deficiency surcharge.

1696
00:58:47,408 --> 00:58:49,398
It will depend on the time period

1697
00:58:49,398 --> 00:58:50,730
when you actually respond,

1698
00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:53,367
but that will be explained it it will say,

1699
00:58:53,370 --> 00:58:56,061
hey, you know you need to pay it efficiency

1700
00:58:56,061 --> 00:58:57,886
surcharge if you file your response.

1701
00:58:57,890 --> 00:59:00,256
After this date, but in other cases,

1702
00:59:00,260 --> 00:59:02,276
if we're already in period 2,

1703
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:02,956
for example,

1704
00:59:02,956 --> 00:59:04,984
when we issue that office action,

1705
00:59:04,990 --> 00:59:07,686
then yes, will say oh by the way,

1706
00:59:07,690 --> 00:59:09,380
you owe a deficiency surcharge.

1707
00:59:09,380 --> 00:59:11,270
Your specimen is bad and you need

1708
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:13,022
to respond with an acceptable

1709
00:59:13,022 --> 00:59:14,786
specimen and efficiency surcharge.

1710
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:19,748
Alright, we have a fact pattern here.

1711
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:21,515
This is actually a very

1712
00:59:21,515 --> 00:59:22,927
common fact pattern question,

1713
00:59:22,930 --> 00:59:25,684
so I'm really glad this is asked and I'll

1714
00:59:25,684 --> 00:59:28,456
note also that the auto program wasn't

1715
00:59:28,456 --> 00:59:30,704
always entirely 100% consistent on how

1716
00:59:30,704 --> 00:59:33,550
we handled this in the very early days,

1717
00:59:33,550 --> 00:59:36,028
so I'm glad this question was asked.

1718
00:59:36,030 --> 00:59:38,958
So two classes are audited and a response

1719
00:59:38,958 --> 00:59:42,396
from its proof of use for items in one class.

1720
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,530
The audit the proof is accepted,

1721
00:59:44,530 --> 00:59:47,770
and in the other class the proof of use.

1722
00:59:47,770 --> 00:59:48,913
Is not accepted.

1723
00:59:48,913 --> 00:59:51,199
Well, the second Office action require

1724
00:59:51,199 --> 00:59:54,134
proof of use for all items remaining in

1725
00:59:54,134 --> 00:59:56,219
the entire registration or just remaining

1726
00:59:56,219 --> 00:59:58,820
in the class where the audit with the

1727
00:59:58,820 --> 01:00:01,780
proof of users not accepted and so the

1728
01:00:01,780 --> 01:00:04,499
audits are on a class by class basis.

1729
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:06,915
So in this case the second Office

1730
01:00:06,915 --> 01:00:09,322
action will only escalate to ask for

1731
01:00:09,322 --> 01:00:11,740
proof of use in the audited class

1732
01:00:11,740 --> 01:00:14,110
where the audit was not satisfied,

1733
01:00:14,110 --> 01:00:17,038
so only one class here will get request

1734
01:00:17,038 --> 01:00:19,508
a requirement to provide proof of use.

1735
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:21,680
For everything that's not provided

1736
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,819
proof of use yet in that class.

1737
01:00:24,820 --> 01:00:25,687
The first class,

1738
01:00:25,687 --> 01:00:27,710
it will note that the audit has

1739
01:00:27,773 --> 01:00:29,615
been resolved for class one and

1740
01:00:29,615 --> 01:00:31,589
that this audit SEC office Action

1741
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:33,976
letter is only applicable to Class 2.

1742
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,747
You so the next question is can

1743
01:00:39,747 --> 01:00:42,015
you delete a service or good after

1744
01:00:42,015 --> 01:00:44,362
you file a Section 8 that was

1745
01:00:44,362 --> 01:00:46,420
accepted and still avoid a fee?

1746
01:00:46,420 --> 01:00:48,562
In other words, you discover a service

1747
01:00:48,562 --> 01:00:50,772
that is no longer offered but was

1748
01:00:50,772 --> 01:00:53,240
soon after a Section 8 was accepted.

1749
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:54,404
The answer is yes,

1750
01:00:54,404 --> 01:00:56,927
you would not have to pay that deletion

1751
01:00:56,927 --> 01:00:59,735
fee if the Section 8 has been accepted.

1752
01:00:59,740 --> 01:01:01,770
When you then file your Section 7

1753
01:01:01,770 --> 01:01:04,262
two and you wouldn't have to pay the

1754
01:01:04,262 --> 01:01:06,652
Section 7 filing fee at that point

1755
01:01:06,652 --> 01:01:08,974
either once that section is accepted.

1756
01:01:08,980 --> 01:01:11,668
Yes, you can go ahead and delete via

1757
01:01:11,668 --> 01:01:14,679
Section 7 without painted deletion feeds.

1758
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:20,988
Once a company has been audited and

1759
01:01:20,988 --> 01:01:24,307
has had to delete goods or services,

1760
01:01:24,310 --> 01:01:27,229
will that make them more vulnerable to

1761
01:01:27,229 --> 01:01:29,450
being audited continuously going forward?

1762
01:01:29,450 --> 01:01:31,595
Present practice is that we

1763
01:01:31,595 --> 01:01:33,740
do not have repeat audits.

1764
01:01:33,740 --> 01:01:36,320
The program is still fairly new,

1765
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,295
so we've really just sort of barely

1766
01:01:39,295 --> 01:01:42,317
dipped our toes into this coming up,

1767
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,120
but as of now,

1768
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,820
after registration has been audited once.

1769
01:01:46,820 --> 01:01:48,836
We are not treating it as

1770
01:01:48,836 --> 01:01:50,180
eligible for an audit.

1771
01:01:50,180 --> 01:01:51,185
When it falls,

1772
01:01:51,185 --> 01:01:52,525
it's next maintenance violent.

1773
01:01:55,530 --> 01:01:56,502
OK, the next one.

1774
01:01:56,502 --> 01:01:58,840
Do I always need to pay the deficiency

1775
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,288
surcharge when paying the deletion feed?

1776
01:02:01,290 --> 01:02:03,210
So again, it's going to vary.

1777
01:02:03,210 --> 01:02:05,177
It's going to depend on when you

1778
01:02:05,177 --> 01:02:07,014
respond and when you filed your

1779
01:02:07,014 --> 01:02:08,874
original Section 8 or 71 declaration

1780
01:02:08,874 --> 01:02:11,382
if you if you're deleting and you're

1781
01:02:11,382 --> 01:02:13,102
responding with the deletion fee

1782
01:02:13,102 --> 01:02:14,854
within the same period that your

1783
01:02:14,854 --> 01:02:17,289
Section 8 or 71 declaration was filed,

1784
01:02:17,290 --> 01:02:18,890
then you wouldn't OS that

1785
01:02:18,890 --> 01:02:19,850
that deficiency surcharge.

1786
01:02:19,850 --> 01:02:22,090
But if by the time you respond,

1787
01:02:22,090 --> 01:02:24,142
for instance that six year period

1788
01:02:24,142 --> 01:02:26,349
is ended and you're now in this.

1789
01:02:26,350 --> 01:02:27,898
In the six month Grace period,

1790
01:02:27,900 --> 01:02:29,376
an you're deleting you would need

1791
01:02:29,376 --> 01:02:30,952
both the deletion fee as well

1792
01:02:30,952 --> 01:02:32,028
as the deficiency surcharge.

1793
01:02:34,790 --> 01:02:37,022
If a registrant can provide the

1794
01:02:37,022 --> 01:02:39,355
requested proof of use in response

1795
01:02:39,355 --> 01:02:41,275
to the Third Office action,

1796
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:42,808
is a petition required

1797
01:02:42,808 --> 01:02:44,336
under the revised rules?

1798
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:45,808
After the change, yes,

1799
01:02:45,808 --> 01:02:47,643
a petition is required to

1800
01:02:47,643 --> 01:02:49,689
submit additional proof of use.

1801
01:02:49,690 --> 01:02:52,278
Evidence that is not

1802
01:02:52,278 --> 01:02:54,219
previously been submitted.

1803
01:02:54,220 --> 01:02:55,128
And that includes paying

1804
01:02:55,128 --> 01:02:56,036
of the petition fee.

1805
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,680
Waiting on her next question.

1806
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,354
OK, who is conducting the review for

1807
01:03:03,354 --> 01:03:06,379
the audit an are they are let's see.

1808
01:03:06,380 --> 01:03:08,660
Are they trained to fully understand

1809
01:03:08,660 --> 01:03:10,166
the specimen? Produce rule?

1810
01:03:10,166 --> 01:03:12,404
Yes, first of all I'll answer

1811
01:03:12,404 --> 01:03:14,740
the second question first of yes,

1812
01:03:14,740 --> 01:03:16,260
they are absolutely trained

1813
01:03:16,260 --> 01:03:17,400
to understand specimen.

1814
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:18,928
The proof of use.

1815
01:03:18,928 --> 01:03:20,838
The staff includes examining attorneys

1816
01:03:20,838 --> 01:03:23,507
on work Project L as well as program

1817
01:03:23,507 --> 01:03:25,759
analyst who are really experienced.

1818
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,445
Have an expert expert level

1819
01:03:27,445 --> 01:03:29,689
knowledge base when it comes to

1820
01:03:29,689 --> 01:03:31,177
post registration examination.

1821
01:03:31,180 --> 01:03:32,926
As well as specimens and Jordan

1822
01:03:32,926 --> 01:03:35,113
and I actually both do the training

1823
01:03:35,113 --> 01:03:36,718
for the audit team examiners,

1824
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,072
so absolutely they are well trained on

1825
01:03:39,072 --> 01:03:41,647
both specimens as well as the proof of use.

1826
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,314
Question is, do you have data

1827
01:03:47,314 --> 01:03:49,314
on how successful a response

1828
01:03:49,314 --> 01:03:52,128
to an audit is based on whether

1829
01:03:52,128 --> 01:03:54,720
someone has representation or not?

1830
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,170
OK, there's a couple of ambiguities here.

1831
01:03:57,170 --> 01:03:59,860
In what successful means. Uh.

1832
01:03:59,860 --> 01:04:02,230
In terms of does that mean

1833
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:05,099
getting to a notice of acceptance,

1834
01:04:05,100 --> 01:04:08,004
no deletions or not two years ago we

1835
01:04:08,004 --> 01:04:11,314
did a fairly deep dive into a sample

1836
01:04:11,314 --> 01:04:14,280
of more than 2000 registrations.

1837
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,088
We looked at the breakdown between

1838
01:04:17,088 --> 01:04:19,529
audit files with representation or pro.

1839
01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:21,774
Say we actually found that there

1840
01:04:21,774 --> 01:04:24,489
were more deletions made in the

1841
01:04:24,489 --> 01:04:25,637
representation registration.

1842
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,968
So the pro say.

1843
01:04:28,970 --> 01:04:30,465
Respondents had made less deletions

1844
01:04:30,465 --> 01:04:32,738
and we're we're able to satisfy their

1845
01:04:32,738 --> 01:04:34,548
audits without making any deletions.

1846
01:04:34,550 --> 01:04:36,776
At a slightly higher percentage rate

1847
01:04:36,776 --> 01:04:39,165
than those with Council do not have

1848
01:04:39,165 --> 01:04:41,430
the exact number in my head right now,

1849
01:04:41,430 --> 01:04:43,726
'cause it's been a couple of years.

1850
01:04:43,730 --> 01:04:45,704
I will know we are actually on

1851
01:04:45,704 --> 01:04:47,570
this summer going to be doing

1852
01:04:47,570 --> 01:04:49,478
additional data analysis on a fairly

1853
01:04:49,478 --> 01:04:51,269
large sample of registrations,

1854
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:54,084
but I do believe it was pretty

1855
01:04:54,084 --> 01:04:57,439
close to the split between the two.

1856
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,766
It's hard to say to satisfy, you know,

1857
01:04:59,766 --> 01:05:01,106
successfully completing an audit can

1858
01:05:01,106 --> 01:05:02,819
have lots of different meanings,

1859
01:05:02,820 --> 01:05:05,204
so I don't want to get into that.

1860
01:05:05,210 --> 01:05:06,710
I mean, you can get,

1861
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:07,906
you know, stick sentence,

1862
01:05:07,906 --> 01:05:09,700
delete it one or two items,

1863
01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:11,786
and you know that might be successful.

1864
01:05:11,790 --> 01:05:13,590
If you have several 100 items,

1865
01:05:13,590 --> 01:05:15,080
it's all based on context,

1866
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:16,963
but but but it's not intuitive to

1867
01:05:16,963 --> 01:05:18,853
think that just because someone is

1868
01:05:18,853 --> 01:05:20,558
pro say that automatically they're

1869
01:05:20,558 --> 01:05:22,560
going to do worse than an audit,

1870
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:24,050
and someone that has council,

1871
01:05:24,050 --> 01:05:27,749
and I think our data is back set up

1872
01:05:27,749 --> 01:05:30,002
quite a bit. Hey thank you Jordan.

1873
01:05:30,002 --> 01:05:32,478
Next one is does the USPTO plan

1874
01:05:32,478 --> 01:05:34,596
on increasing the number of audits

1875
01:05:34,596 --> 01:05:36,439
conducted in the coming years.

1876
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,120
I will say currently for the for the

1877
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,039
indefinite future I would say Jordan.

1878
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,680
I've not heard of any plans to increase.

1879
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,976
We are going to be for now.

1880
01:05:45,980 --> 01:05:47,620
Continuing with that 5000 case,

1881
01:05:47,620 --> 01:05:49,870
you know a year goal, you know.

1882
01:05:49,870 --> 01:05:52,270
Certainly we would love to if you know

1883
01:05:52,338 --> 01:05:54,528
staffing and an you know permitted,

1884
01:05:54,530 --> 01:05:56,125
that would certainly be something

1885
01:05:56,125 --> 01:05:58,479
I think we would want to consider.

1886
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,512
But for now.

1887
01:05:59,512 --> 01:06:01,920
We are just doing the 5000 per

1888
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,639
year as our goal for the program.

1889
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,363
And of course if examiners get really

1890
01:06:07,363 --> 01:06:10,125
ambitious and want to help us to do more,

1891
01:06:10,130 --> 01:06:12,212
you know it's certainly you know

1892
01:06:12,212 --> 01:06:14,316
we love and appreciate the work

1893
01:06:14,316 --> 01:06:15,620
that our examiners do,

1894
01:06:15,620 --> 01:06:18,120
but the official goal for

1895
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,250
the office is 5000 per year.

1896
01:06:21,250 --> 01:06:22,670
Just tack on to that.

1897
01:06:22,670 --> 01:06:24,090
When the rule was written,

1898
01:06:24,090 --> 01:06:26,646
I believe is that was sort of a finger

1899
01:06:26,646 --> 01:06:28,346
at 10% of post registration filings.

1900
01:06:28,346 --> 01:06:29,766
If I recall it right.

1901
01:06:29,770 --> 01:06:32,034
Well, that would be 18,000 or so roughly,

1902
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:33,750
so we're not close to that.

1903
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:35,170
There is room for flexibility,

1904
01:06:35,170 --> 01:06:36,868
but but yeah, it actually did.

1905
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:38,014
Yeah, and I actually,

1906
01:06:38,014 --> 01:06:39,730
I don't think they will actually

1907
01:06:39,789 --> 01:06:40,849
caps it at anything.

1908
01:06:40,850 --> 01:06:45,050
It says to start with 10% so it's dream big.

1909
01:06:45,050 --> 01:06:49,055
But but yeah, it's 5000. So question is,

1910
01:06:49,055 --> 01:06:52,230
can you speak a little more as to the

1911
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:54,485
software and process for identifying

1912
01:06:54,485 --> 01:06:57,080
registrations that are chosen for audit?

1913
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,439
Are they truly random or does the

1914
01:06:59,439 --> 01:07:01,843
software select a certain number of

1915
01:07:01,843 --> 01:07:04,489
registrations under East under each basis?

1916
01:07:04,490 --> 01:07:07,570
It is as random as one believes

1917
01:07:07,570 --> 01:07:10,528
in randomness as a matter of

1918
01:07:10,528 --> 01:07:13,103
software programming there is no.

1919
01:07:13,110 --> 01:07:14,935
Program bias per on Abeona

1920
01:07:14,935 --> 01:07:16,395
to target certain bases.

1921
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:17,684
We don't do that.

1922
01:07:17,684 --> 01:07:20,110
The software I can let you know

1923
01:07:20,110 --> 01:07:22,235
updates itself every bye week.

1924
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,856
We get a table of all the eligible

1925
01:07:24,856 --> 01:07:27,692
files run in the prior bye week and

1926
01:07:27,692 --> 01:07:30,374
that software runs on a basis of

1927
01:07:30,374 --> 01:07:32,786
parsing ID's through semi colons and

1928
01:07:32,786 --> 01:07:35,620
commas and then when an audit examiner

1929
01:07:35,620 --> 01:07:38,489
logs into the software they get a

1930
01:07:38,489 --> 01:07:40,829
numerical list and they are instructed

1931
01:07:40,829 --> 01:07:43,398
to go through that List 1 by 1.

1932
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,268
An and it's just presented in

1933
01:07:46,268 --> 01:07:48,778
a randomized order every time

1934
01:07:48,778 --> 01:07:51,288
you refresh on that software,

1935
01:07:51,290 --> 01:07:55,190
re jumbles the table and.

1936
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:56,965
You know that that's worked

1937
01:07:56,965 --> 01:07:59,629
for us for a few years now.

1938
01:07:59,630 --> 01:08:00,958
There's there's no other

1939
01:08:00,958 --> 01:08:02,618
anything else to the software,

1940
01:08:02,620 --> 01:08:04,937
and in terms of basis or targeting,

1941
01:08:04,940 --> 01:08:07,264
really long IDs or nothing like that,

1942
01:08:07,270 --> 01:08:08,930
it's simply a minimum criteria.

1943
01:08:08,930 --> 01:08:10,590
Looking at a minimum number

1944
01:08:10,590 --> 01:08:12,250
of commas and semi colons.

1945
01:08:12,250 --> 01:08:15,034
So we just have a basis to start

1946
01:08:15,034 --> 01:08:17,359
through an we just go one by

1947
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:19,550
one down and look to see it.

1948
01:08:19,550 --> 01:08:21,755
And if there's it's gotten on a

1949
01:08:21,755 --> 01:08:23,530
used claim against bounced out,

1950
01:08:23,530 --> 01:08:26,058
and if there's proof of use for enough

1951
01:08:26,058 --> 01:08:28,510
items to not take anything to note,

1952
01:08:28,510 --> 01:08:32,185
it just gets bounced out as well.

1953
01:08:32,190 --> 01:08:33,303
Thank you, Jordan.

1954
01:08:33,303 --> 01:08:34,787
Another two part question.

1955
01:08:34,790 --> 01:08:37,486
If during an audit you find that a

1956
01:08:37,486 --> 01:08:39,608
product such as software on CD's

1957
01:08:39,608 --> 01:08:42,199
and Class 9 has evolved into non

1958
01:08:42,199 --> 01:08:44,469
downloadable software in Class 42,

1959
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:46,260
can that be revised instead

1960
01:08:46,260 --> 01:08:48,560
of delete it during an audit?

1961
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,044
Is the evolving technology

1962
01:08:50,044 --> 01:08:51,157
amendment still available?

1963
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,508
So I'll answer the second part of that first,

1964
01:08:54,510 --> 01:08:55,635
which is yes.

1965
01:08:55,635 --> 01:08:56,760
Technology evolution petitions

1966
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,600
are available to amend ID's.

1967
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,490
They are again there's a

1968
01:09:00,490 --> 01:09:02,380
petition that must be filed.

1969
01:09:02,380 --> 01:09:04,662
In order to avail yourself of that

1970
01:09:04,662 --> 01:09:06,787
request to amend as far as Jordan,

1971
01:09:06,790 --> 01:09:08,995
I'm going to put you on this.

1972
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,184
Are you aware of us ever considering

1973
01:09:11,184 --> 01:09:13,409
in in the midst of an audit?

1974
01:09:13,410 --> 01:09:14,301
Are requests to.

1975
01:09:14,301 --> 01:09:14,598
Basically,

1976
01:09:14,598 --> 01:09:17,635
I guess it would be we need to suspend the

1977
01:09:17,635 --> 01:09:20,020
audit in order to consider the petition,

1978
01:09:20,020 --> 01:09:21,600
seeking to amend the idea,

1979
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:22,230
I don't.

1980
01:09:22,230 --> 01:09:26,250
I'm not aware of us ever doing that, but.

1981
01:09:26,250 --> 01:09:29,400
No, I don't think we've had any kind of.

1982
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,220
Suspension yeah request but again,

1983
01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:32,692
if you're proactively reviewing

1984
01:09:32,692 --> 01:09:34,900
your ID before you file your

1985
01:09:34,962 --> 01:09:36,677
Section 8 or 71 declaration,

1986
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,328
hopefully you're realizing that

1987
01:09:38,328 --> 01:09:40,800
your class your CD's are now

1988
01:09:40,875 --> 01:09:42,870
a class 42 item and so again,

1989
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:44,855
that's another really good and

1990
01:09:44,855 --> 01:09:47,267
important reason to do your due

1991
01:09:47,267 --> 01:09:49,012
diligence early to see what's

1992
01:09:49,012 --> 01:09:50,408
in use and what's

1993
01:09:50,485 --> 01:09:53,418
not in use, and take care of that tech.

1994
01:09:53,420 --> 01:09:55,724
Evil evil petition in advance of

1995
01:09:55,724 --> 01:09:58,386
filing your Section 8 or 71 declaration

1996
01:09:58,386 --> 01:10:00,829
we we we have had several tech.

1997
01:10:00,830 --> 01:10:02,970
Evil petitions for audited files,

1998
01:10:02,970 --> 01:10:05,945
but nothing since the funerals come out,

1999
01:10:05,950 --> 01:10:08,512
so we haven't seen how that

2000
01:10:08,512 --> 01:10:11,078
works together, if at all yet.

2001
01:10:15,410 --> 01:10:16,898
Couple of questions here.

2002
01:10:16,898 --> 01:10:19,556
One is our foreign registrants selected for

2003
01:10:19,556 --> 01:10:21,716
an audit more than domestic registrants.

2004
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,922
There's, as we've noted, there's no

2005
01:10:23,922 --> 01:10:25,800
specific targeting by filing basis,

2006
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,635
so the only statistic I have on that is

2007
01:10:28,635 --> 01:10:31,216
just the breakdown between one a basis

2008
01:10:31,216 --> 01:10:34,328
which could be by far and domiciliaries,

2009
01:10:34,330 --> 01:10:37,298
or by any of the three other bases,

2010
01:10:37,300 --> 01:10:39,820
and after the one a basis it's

2011
01:10:39,820 --> 01:10:42,547
Madrid to the second the 66 days.

2012
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:45,750
Are the most common to show up in an audit,

2013
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:47,784
but there's there's no attention being

2014
01:10:47,784 --> 01:10:50,085
paid to anything about related to the

2015
01:10:50,085 --> 01:10:52,150
country that an owner is domiciled in.

2016
01:10:52,150 --> 01:10:54,566
It's not at all related to the software

2017
01:10:54,566 --> 01:10:56,630
programming to create a randomized list.

2018
01:10:58,740 --> 01:11:00,868
On the next one is what is the

2019
01:11:00,868 --> 01:11:02,448
relevant period during which there

2020
01:11:02,448 --> 01:11:04,416
must have been used in commerce.

2021
01:11:04,420 --> 01:11:06,646
If the mark was used in commerce

2022
01:11:06,646 --> 01:11:08,529
three months prior to the opening

2023
01:11:08,529 --> 01:11:10,877
date on which the Section 8 can be

2024
01:11:10,877 --> 01:11:12,788
filed in the Section 8 is filed,

2025
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:14,766
that first day is acceptable to rely on

2026
01:11:14,766 --> 01:11:17,041
use from the three months earlier than

2027
01:11:17,041 --> 01:11:18,766
the 5th year anniversary anniversary,

2028
01:11:18,770 --> 01:11:20,863
so use has to be within that

2029
01:11:20,863 --> 01:11:21,760
statutory filing period,

2030
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,750
which would be the 5th year to you know so.

2031
01:11:24,750 --> 01:11:27,142
So you should need to be within that

2032
01:11:27,142 --> 01:11:28,430
relevant period, because, again,

2033
01:11:28,430 --> 01:11:31,190
you're going to have to provide a specimen.

2034
01:11:31,190 --> 01:11:32,984
That's going to support use during

2035
01:11:32,984 --> 01:11:34,560
the relevant statutory filing period,

2036
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,695
so it would be that fifth year,

2037
01:11:36,700 --> 01:11:37,872
and then you know,

2038
01:11:37,872 --> 01:11:39,630
ending with going all the way

2039
01:11:39,698 --> 01:11:41,896
through to the grace period for use.

2040
01:11:44,530 --> 01:11:46,742
Can you please confirm how the number

2041
01:11:46,742 --> 01:11:49,021
of goods or services being deleted

2042
01:11:49,021 --> 01:11:51,553
is determined for cost fee purposes?

2043
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,332
For example, sometimes different goods in the

2044
01:11:54,332 --> 01:11:57,110
class are separated by commas or semi colons,

2045
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:59,330
sunglasses and software or is clothing,

2046
01:11:59,330 --> 01:12:01,920
namely, will all the goods that follow,

2047
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,510
namely be counted as one deletions are.

2048
01:12:04,510 --> 01:12:07,100
It's a, it's a class based fee.

2049
01:12:07,100 --> 01:12:10,061
So no matter how many deletions you make in

2050
01:12:10,061 --> 01:12:13,464
a single class in a single filing response.

2051
01:12:13,470 --> 01:12:15,438
You're just going to pay the

2052
01:12:15,438 --> 01:12:17,230
2:50 for the entire class,

2053
01:12:17,230 --> 01:12:20,236
so if you have 50 items and you whittle

2054
01:12:20,236 --> 01:12:23,045
it down to two and you delete 48,

2055
01:12:23,050 --> 01:12:27,434
you're still paying the 250 for that class.

2056
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:29,920
So so and the deficiency fee is not

2057
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:32,757
at all related to to specific goods

2058
01:12:32,757 --> 01:12:35,640
or services or classes. It's a.

2059
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,565
It's an overall registration fee.

2060
01:12:38,570 --> 01:12:40,235
So you want to go ahead and take that?

2061
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:40,954
Take that one.

2062
01:12:40,954 --> 01:12:43,029
I'm going to wait on another one for me.

2063
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:46,880
Ha. The very last time.

2064
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,580
Sorry I'm scrolling here.

2065
01:12:48,580 --> 01:12:50,800
I'm sorry monthly, that's OK.

2066
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,070
Our monthly or quarterly statistics

2067
01:12:53,070 --> 01:12:56,649
on the number of audits and the number

2068
01:12:56,649 --> 01:12:59,097
of office actions etc available on

2069
01:12:59,097 --> 01:13:01,898
the PTO website or someplace else.

2070
01:13:01,900 --> 01:13:04,224
Unfortunately, our TM dashboard

2071
01:13:04,224 --> 01:13:07,710
has yet to include audit data.

2072
01:13:07,710 --> 01:13:09,595
Our stats are typically made

2073
01:13:09,595 --> 01:13:10,726
available in presentations.

2074
01:13:10,730 --> 01:13:13,378
They have been in the past given by

2075
01:13:13,378 --> 01:13:15,628
our executives at various conferences,

2076
01:13:15,630 --> 01:13:18,960
but we do not have that on the TM

2077
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,610
dashboard yet, though I hope we do.

2078
01:13:22,610 --> 01:13:24,929
Get it soon.

2079
01:13:24,930 --> 01:13:27,274
K So the next one can all trademark

2080
01:13:27,274 --> 01:13:29,384
owners expect an audit during the

2081
01:13:29,384 --> 01:13:30,848
lifetime of their trademarks.

2082
01:13:30,850 --> 01:13:32,170
We cannot promise that.

2083
01:13:32,170 --> 01:13:33,160
We just say,

2084
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,414
you know you want to be prepared

2085
01:13:35,414 --> 01:13:36,770
because you never know.

2086
01:13:36,770 --> 01:13:38,750
It is completely random, and again,

2087
01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:42,040
you know it really is the luck of the draw.

2088
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,317
If you want to call it that as to

2089
01:13:44,317 --> 01:13:46,959
whether or not your registration will be

2090
01:13:46,959 --> 01:13:48,950
randomly randomly selected for audit.

2091
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:49,480
But again,

2092
01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:51,600
keep in mind we're going to have these

2093
01:13:51,659 --> 01:13:53,879
new mechanisms mechanisms available soon.

2094
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:55,254
Reexamination expungement where?

2095
01:13:55,254 --> 01:13:58,002
There's an opportunity for third parties

2096
01:13:58,002 --> 01:14:00,903
and the director of the USPTO to look into,

2097
01:14:00,910 --> 01:14:01,808
you know,

2098
01:14:01,808 --> 01:14:04,951
nonuse and failure to use in commerce

2099
01:14:04,951 --> 01:14:08,100
through those those proceedings as well.

2100
01:14:08,100 --> 01:14:10,290
Just to piggyback off that though

2101
01:14:10,290 --> 01:14:11,750
I had one more.

2102
01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:13,904
I have another question here you

2103
01:14:13,904 --> 01:14:16,139
should think about the audit not

2104
01:14:16,139 --> 01:14:17,959
just as a registration owner,

2105
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:20,696
but now is the time of filing of new

2106
01:14:20,696 --> 01:14:22,487
applications 'cause there are multiple

2107
01:14:22,487 --> 01:14:25,102
milestones along the way in the pre

2108
01:14:25,102 --> 01:14:27,217
registration process where you can

2109
01:14:27,217 --> 01:14:29,588
make determinations about use in commerce.

2110
01:14:29,588 --> 01:14:31,961
It's a 1B application when you get

2111
01:14:31,961 --> 01:14:34,263
to that statement of use stage

2112
01:14:34,263 --> 01:14:36,611
you have an opportunity then to

2113
01:14:36,611 --> 01:14:38,127
remove goods or services.

2114
01:14:38,130 --> 01:14:40,104
There may be no longer have a

2115
01:14:40,104 --> 01:14:41,250
bonafide intent to use,

2116
01:14:41,250 --> 01:14:43,266
so I think now now that the audit

2117
01:14:43,266 --> 01:14:45,508
program has been around for several years,

2118
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:47,200
it's really important to consider

2119
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,233
what is going into your application

2120
01:14:49,233 --> 01:14:51,789
at that stage before you end up at a

2121
01:14:51,855 --> 01:14:53,335
registration stage and you

2122
01:14:53,335 --> 01:14:54,815
have to work backwards.

2123
01:14:54,820 --> 01:14:56,806
Alright, so this question is if

2124
01:14:56,806 --> 01:14:58,843
some goods are deleted on filing

2125
01:14:58,843 --> 01:15:00,775
the Section 8 or 71 declaration,

2126
01:15:00,780 --> 01:15:02,435
but later the client actually

2127
01:15:02,435 --> 01:15:03,759
starts using those goods.

2128
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,384
Can we later add them back to their

2129
01:15:06,384 --> 01:15:08,463
registration or do we file a newer

2130
01:15:08,463 --> 01:15:10,646
it a new application so once goods

2131
01:15:10,646 --> 01:15:12,926
or services are deleted from a

2132
01:15:12,926 --> 01:15:15,134
registration they do not come back?

2133
01:15:15,134 --> 01:15:18,505
You will need to file a new application

2134
01:15:18,505 --> 01:15:21,275
for those goods or services.

2135
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,926
So this one is a follow up on the

2136
01:15:23,926 --> 01:15:26,183
relevant use period question that I

2137
01:15:26,183 --> 01:15:28,941
asked answered a moment ago following up

2138
01:15:28,941 --> 01:15:31,720
the relevant use period is the answer.

2139
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:34,960
The same for the 9th and 10th year renewal.

2140
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,120
Absolutely it's for every period there,

2141
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:38,412
after every 10 years.

2142
01:15:38,412 --> 01:15:41,140
You know they use should be within the

2143
01:15:41,140 --> 01:15:43,674
relevant that 10 year filing period with

2144
01:15:43,674 --> 01:15:46,477
the 20 year filing period going forward.

2145
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:49,175
That's when your Section 8 or 71

2146
01:15:49,175 --> 01:15:50,880
declaration is attesting to use.

2147
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,060
During that relevant filing period.

2148
01:15:56,750 --> 01:16:01,020
And looks like last chance, yeah?

2149
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:08,275
So I think that's that's

2150
01:16:08,275 --> 01:16:09,980
pretty close to all of them.

2151
01:16:09,980 --> 01:16:11,849
I know that there are some questions

2152
01:16:11,849 --> 01:16:13,309
that haven't necessarily been answered,

2153
01:16:13,310 --> 01:16:16,370
but and so I know folks that you sent him in.

2154
01:16:16,370 --> 01:16:17,204
They're not necessarily

2155
01:16:17,204 --> 01:16:18,594
relevant to the topic today,

2156
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,644
so that's probably one of the reasons

2157
01:16:20,644 --> 01:16:22,345
why the presenters aren't going to

2158
01:16:22,345 --> 01:16:24,252
get a chance to answer them, but.

2159
01:16:24,252 --> 01:16:27,228
But we pretty much hit all of my.

2160
01:16:27,230 --> 01:16:29,510
I think a lot of the questions have

2161
01:16:29,510 --> 01:16:31,716
really been have focused on what is the

2162
01:16:31,716 --> 01:16:34,114
best way for an attorney to help the

2163
01:16:34,114 --> 01:16:36,344
client avoid paying all of those fees.

2164
01:16:36,344 --> 01:16:38,696
And maybe it might be a good idea,

2165
01:16:38,700 --> 01:16:40,892
as we as we continue to wrap up

2166
01:16:40,892 --> 01:16:42,809
today to to really hit home.

2167
01:16:42,810 --> 01:16:43,866
Maybe one more time?

2168
01:16:43,866 --> 01:16:46,167
Like what is the best way to help

2169
01:16:46,167 --> 01:16:47,807
clients avoid paying those fees?

2170
01:16:47,810 --> 01:16:49,580
Montia, you want to take it?

2171
01:16:49,580 --> 01:16:51,338
Sure, I would again encourage you.

2172
01:16:51,340 --> 01:16:52,222
You know, right?

2173
01:16:52,222 --> 01:16:53,398
As you're approaching that,

2174
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:54,724
that statutory relevant statutory

2175
01:16:54,724 --> 01:16:55,386
filing period.

2176
01:16:55,390 --> 01:16:58,750
5th year be at the 10th year the 20th year.

2177
01:16:58,750 --> 01:16:59,632
Check the ID.

2178
01:16:59,632 --> 01:17:01,690
Create a checklist and set each good

2179
01:17:01,750 --> 01:17:03,970
and service that's currently in your

2180
01:17:03,970 --> 01:17:05,810
registration on a separate line,

2181
01:17:05,810 --> 01:17:08,064
and then if you're the attorney you

2182
01:17:08,064 --> 01:17:10,391
want to work with your client to

2183
01:17:10,391 --> 01:17:13,094
have them to look to confirm use of

2184
01:17:13,094 --> 01:17:15,537
the mark with the specific goods and

2185
01:17:15,537 --> 01:17:17,570
services that are in their registration.

2186
01:17:17,570 --> 01:17:18,814
If they cannot confirm,

2187
01:17:18,814 --> 01:17:21,380
use then as soon as they can and

2188
01:17:21,380 --> 01:17:22,965
again before they file their

2189
01:17:22,965 --> 01:17:24,960
Section 8 or 71 declaration,

2190
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,720
delete those goods and services.

2191
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:27,924
If the of course,

2192
01:17:27,924 --> 01:17:29,128
there's no excusable nonuse

2193
01:17:29,128 --> 01:17:30,698
claim that can be submitted,

2194
01:17:30,700 --> 01:17:31,615
proactively delete anything

2195
01:17:31,615 --> 01:17:32,835
that they can't confirm.

2196
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:33,758
Use for an.

2197
01:17:33,758 --> 01:17:35,900
That's really the way you and then,

2198
01:17:35,900 --> 01:17:36,462
of course,

2199
01:17:36,462 --> 01:17:38,148
collect any evidence and hold on

2200
01:17:38,148 --> 01:17:39,270
to that evidence,

2201
01:17:39,270 --> 01:17:43,006
and make sure any evidence that you have.

2202
01:17:43,010 --> 01:17:46,435
Identifies use during the relevant

2203
01:17:46,435 --> 01:17:48,490
statutory filing period.

2204
01:17:48,490 --> 01:17:49,890
Call thank you very much.

2205
01:17:49,890 --> 01:17:51,210
Have one more command.

2206
01:17:51,210 --> 01:17:53,573
I'm just checking to make sure and

2207
01:17:53,573 --> 01:17:56,069
see whether whether it's one that we can.

2208
01:17:56,070 --> 01:17:57,618
We can ask Jordan,

2209
01:17:57,618 --> 01:18:00,761
do you have anything that you want to

2210
01:18:00,761 --> 01:18:03,721
hit home as well as we closeout today?

2211
01:18:03,730 --> 01:18:05,530
Call your audit examiner with questions.

2212
01:18:05,530 --> 01:18:07,874
We try to be as helpful as possible

2213
01:18:07,874 --> 01:18:09,730
over the phone or by email,

2214
01:18:09,730 --> 01:18:11,942
and if you're just unsure about procedure

2215
01:18:11,942 --> 01:18:14,093
unsure about how to use the form just

2216
01:18:14,093 --> 01:18:16,330
just to help get your submission through,

2217
01:18:16,330 --> 01:18:17,530
give us a call.

2218
01:18:17,530 --> 01:18:18,730
We want to help.

2219
01:18:18,730 --> 01:18:20,706
We want to be as helpful as we

2220
01:18:20,706 --> 01:18:22,630
can can provide legal advice,

2221
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:24,208
but we can certainly help you

2222
01:18:24,208 --> 01:18:26,022
walk you through the process and

2223
01:18:26,022 --> 01:18:27,426
get that response submitted.

2224
01:18:27,430 --> 01:18:29,542
We don't want to see a registration get

2225
01:18:29,542 --> 01:18:30,990
cancelled because the response just

2226
01:18:30,990 --> 01:18:32,430
couldn't get submitted for reasons

2227
01:18:32,430 --> 01:18:34,030
that were otherwise resolvable.

2228
01:18:34,030 --> 01:18:37,380
So, so please reach out. Yeah.

2229
01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:41,386
That's it. One more just came in Jordan.

2230
01:18:41,390 --> 01:18:43,140
Alright, so we got here.

2231
01:18:43,140 --> 01:18:45,780
Well that's a long one if you are

2232
01:18:45,780 --> 01:18:48,058
required to pay a deficiency fee,

2233
01:18:48,060 --> 01:18:49,908
will you be informed ahead of

2234
01:18:49,908 --> 01:18:51,140
time or must you

2235
01:18:51,215 --> 01:18:52,791
anticipate all and submitting

2236
01:18:52,791 --> 01:18:56,470
wait we have one, yeah?

2237
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:57,510
Think we answered that one.

2238
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:59,757
Yeah, I think we got that one.

2239
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:01,648
But yeah, you you only have to pay

2240
01:19:01,648 --> 01:19:03,500
once in response, so you will.

2241
01:19:03,500 --> 01:19:05,705
You will get the office action that will

2242
01:19:05,705 --> 01:19:07,982
let you know what fees are owed and then

2243
01:19:08,045 --> 01:19:10,125
you have to pay the fees in response.

2244
01:19:10,130 --> 01:19:10,928
How about Jordan?

2245
01:19:10,928 --> 01:19:12,258
The last part of that?

2246
01:19:12,260 --> 01:19:14,750
Which is what are the consequences

2247
01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:17,059
of forgetting to submit the fee?

2248
01:19:17,060 --> 01:19:18,353
In the end,

2249
01:19:18,353 --> 01:19:22,090
you're going to get to a stage where.

2250
01:19:22,090 --> 01:19:25,233
You're going to get a third office

2251
01:19:25,233 --> 01:19:27,919
action that's going to require you.

2252
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,728
This is a good question is we have not

2253
01:19:30,728 --> 01:19:33,258
really gotten this yet with the feral,

2254
01:19:33,260 --> 01:19:35,969
but at some point that he's going to have

2255
01:19:35,969 --> 01:19:38,609
to get paid and ultimately it's not.

2256
01:19:38,610 --> 01:19:40,608
The registration is going to cancel,

2257
01:19:40,610 --> 01:19:40,944
right?

2258
01:19:40,944 --> 01:19:43,950
You'll get an office action or go to say,

2259
01:19:43,950 --> 01:19:46,190
hey, you know you need to pay

2260
01:19:46,190 --> 01:19:47,960
the fee if the fees.

2261
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:49,810
The only thing that's outstanding

2262
01:19:49,810 --> 01:19:52,324
then then we would issue that office

2263
01:19:52,324 --> 01:19:54,417
action to say you know we need

2264
01:19:54,417 --> 01:19:56,637
this fee to you know deletion fee,

2265
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:57,597
efficiency, surcharge etc.

2266
01:19:57,597 --> 01:19:57,916
Yeah,

2267
01:19:57,916 --> 01:20:00,142
there is at some point a cut

2268
01:20:00,142 --> 01:20:01,871
off we can't just get every six

2269
01:20:01,871 --> 01:20:03,585
months a letter without the fee

2270
01:20:03,585 --> 01:20:05,331
that we asked for and expect.

2271
01:20:05,340 --> 01:20:06,535
Another office action is going

2272
01:20:06,535 --> 01:20:08,080
to go out at some point.

2273
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,439
There is a cut off and that

2274
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,628
registration is going to be cancelled.

2275
01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:15,126
And we have a couple more coming in,

2276
01:20:15,130 --> 01:20:16,537
so hold on,

2277
01:20:16,537 --> 01:20:20,510
folks will try and get to him here.

2278
01:20:20,510 --> 01:20:21,794
Well, actually let me.

2279
01:20:21,794 --> 01:20:23,720
I can ask you this one.

2280
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:24,860
Jason, I'm sorry Jordan,

2281
01:20:24,860 --> 01:20:27,266
to sort of attack on So what happens

2282
01:20:27,266 --> 01:20:29,156
if your call is not returned

2283
01:20:29,156 --> 01:20:31,098
when you're calling the examiner?

2284
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:33,668
What's the policy with regard to phone calls?

2285
01:20:33,670 --> 01:20:36,038
Is there a one to two business days

2286
01:20:36,038 --> 01:20:38,490
or what are we talking about here?

2287
01:20:38,490 --> 01:20:41,130
Sure, yeah, we, we we.

2288
01:20:41,130 --> 01:20:44,532
We ask that calls in return within 24 hours.

2289
01:20:44,540 --> 01:20:47,400
So one business day.

2290
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,398
Email can be helpful as well.

2291
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:51,070
We all kind of work.

2292
01:20:51,070 --> 01:20:52,745
Variety of hours are located

2293
01:20:52,745 --> 01:20:53,750
in different locations.

2294
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:55,598
If you persistently have a hard

2295
01:20:55,598 --> 01:20:57,420
time getting ahold of somebody,

2296
01:20:57,420 --> 01:20:59,090
you know after several weeks,

2297
01:20:59,090 --> 01:21:00,494
contact that person's supervisor.

2298
01:21:00,494 --> 01:21:02,600
If you can locate that information

2299
01:21:02,655 --> 01:21:03,429
on the website,

2300
01:21:03,430 --> 01:21:05,768
or you can contact me or Montia,

2301
01:21:05,770 --> 01:21:07,440
that is fine as well.

2302
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:08,784
If you're persistently having

2303
01:21:08,784 --> 01:21:10,800
a hard time getting ahold of

2304
01:21:10,865 --> 01:21:12,779
somebody and their out of office,

2305
01:21:12,780 --> 01:21:16,110
email is not provided instructions otherwise.

2306
01:21:16,110 --> 01:21:18,945
OK, and I did get another one about use.

2307
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:20,756
Are you saying that you must

2308
01:21:20,756 --> 01:21:22,749
be in the 9th 10th year?

2309
01:21:22,750 --> 01:21:23,701
In other words,

2310
01:21:23,701 --> 01:21:25,603
you cannot claim use if it

2311
01:21:25,603 --> 01:21:27,168
was used in year six,

2312
01:21:27,170 --> 01:21:29,375
but not since that is absolutely correct.

2313
01:21:29,380 --> 01:21:31,585
It uses during the relevant statutory period,

2314
01:21:31,590 --> 01:21:33,170
whatever that statutory period is

2315
01:21:33,170 --> 01:21:34,434
for maintaining your registration.

2316
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:38,256
It's a hold on. We might have

2317
01:21:38,256 --> 01:21:39,874
one more we can sneak in here

2318
01:21:39,874 --> 01:21:41,278
before we have to close out.

2319
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:47,667
George said OK, can you pay multiple

2320
01:21:47,667 --> 01:21:51,257
deletion fees for deleting goods in the

2321
01:21:51,257 --> 01:21:54,431
same class when deletions are requested,

2322
01:21:54,440 --> 01:21:56,440
following multiple office actions?

2323
01:21:59,750 --> 01:22:02,366
OK, if I understand this right 'cause I'm

2324
01:22:02,366 --> 01:22:05,082
trying to think of a scenario this comes

2325
01:22:05,082 --> 01:22:07,268
up so frequently will have a response

2326
01:22:07,268 --> 01:22:09,734
to one of the few rule in effect where

2327
01:22:09,734 --> 01:22:11,918
the response makes deletions in a class,

2328
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,728
but the fee for that class is not submitted,

2329
01:22:14,730 --> 01:22:16,809
so the second office action goes out

2330
01:22:16,809 --> 01:22:19,404
and the audit is not satisfied, so that

2331
01:22:19,404 --> 01:22:21,276
second office action will indicate that.

2332
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:23,146
Let's say it's a one class,

2333
01:22:23,150 --> 01:22:25,342
so a fee of $200 was incurred

2334
01:22:25,342 --> 01:22:26,890
but not provided an.

2335
01:22:26,890 --> 01:22:28,780
If you make any additional deletions

2336
01:22:28,780 --> 01:22:30,480
in this second office action.

2337
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:33,180
You will pay the fee again and so yes,

2338
01:22:33,180 --> 01:22:35,580
in that response to the Second Office action.

2339
01:22:35,580 --> 01:22:37,380
If you are making additional deletions,

2340
01:22:37,380 --> 01:22:40,080
you will pay at a minimum the 250,

2341
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:42,460
initially incurred and then the fees

2342
01:22:42,460 --> 01:22:44,291
for anything deleted on top of

2343
01:22:44,291 --> 01:22:45,773
that on a per class basis,

2344
01:22:45,780 --> 01:22:47,652
and you want to pay all of that

2345
01:22:47,652 --> 01:22:49,644
in your second office action if

2346
01:22:49,644 --> 01:22:51,474
that Second Officer comes back,

2347
01:22:51,480 --> 01:22:52,380
makes the deletions,

2348
01:22:52,380 --> 01:22:54,180
but the fee is not paid,

2349
01:22:54,180 --> 01:22:55,960
you're gonna get another office

2350
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,420
action with the fee amount and that

2351
01:22:58,420 --> 01:23:00,569
warning that if you don't respond to

2352
01:23:00,569 --> 01:23:03,185
that with the fees that the entire

2353
01:23:03,185 --> 01:23:04,681
registration will be cancelled.

2354
01:23:04,690 --> 01:23:06,600
And I have another one.

2355
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:08,510
How are requests for Nonuse

2356
01:23:08,510 --> 01:23:10,038
handled during audit proceedings?

2357
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:13,288
So if the initial Section 8 or 71

2358
01:23:13,288 --> 01:23:15,388
declaration includes a non use claim,

2359
01:23:15,390 --> 01:23:18,134
it is actually kicked out of the

2360
01:23:18,134 --> 01:23:20,521
audit because the purpose of our

2361
01:23:20,521 --> 01:23:22,777
audit is to check the accuracy

2362
01:23:22,777 --> 01:23:25,766
of use claims in a Section 8 or

2363
01:23:25,766 --> 01:23:28,137
71 declaration on occasion we do,

2364
01:23:28,137 --> 01:23:30,711
I think see Nonuse claims being

2365
01:23:30,711 --> 01:23:33,140
submitted after an audit is underway

2366
01:23:33,140 --> 01:23:35,440
and we do evaluate those and.

2367
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:36,349
You know, George.

2368
01:23:36,349 --> 01:23:38,167
I think generally you can help

2369
01:23:38,167 --> 01:23:39,610
me out with this one.

2370
01:23:39,610 --> 01:23:41,100
It'll come down to cases

2371
01:23:41,100 --> 01:23:41,994
where they're saying,

2372
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:42,530
you know,

2373
01:23:42,530 --> 01:23:44,120
during the midst of the of

2374
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:45,870
the COVID pandemic they would.

2375
01:23:45,870 --> 01:23:46,508
You know,

2376
01:23:46,508 --> 01:23:48,422
respondents might say we can't get

2377
01:23:48,422 --> 01:23:50,476
to our warehouse to even check to

2378
01:23:50,476 --> 01:23:53,019
see if we have a good proof of you.

2379
01:23:53,020 --> 01:23:55,116
So we would allow for the audit to

2380
01:23:55,116 --> 01:23:57,189
conclude in those cases because again,

2381
01:23:57,190 --> 01:23:58,978
it's something that's beyond their control,

2382
01:23:58,980 --> 01:24:01,066
and so that's a way where it's

2383
01:24:01,066 --> 01:24:02,260
not necessarily non use.

2384
01:24:02,260 --> 01:24:04,180
But they're saying we can't prove

2385
01:24:04,180 --> 01:24:06,089
to you that we're using it.

2386
01:24:06,090 --> 01:24:08,379
And then in the cases where they

2387
01:24:08,379 --> 01:24:09,760
are responding by then,

2388
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,440
saying actually are mark is not in use.

2389
01:24:12,440 --> 01:24:15,780
Do you want to in the context of an audit,

2390
01:24:15,780 --> 01:24:17,992
do you want to handle what what

2391
01:24:17,992 --> 01:24:20,118
we would do in those cases?

2392
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:20,832
Sure, yeah.

2393
01:24:20,832 --> 01:24:21,188
So.

2394
01:24:21,188 --> 01:24:24,459
So to the two things that crop up a lot,

2395
01:24:24,460 --> 01:24:26,588
we do have a COVID related scheme

2396
01:24:26,588 --> 01:24:27,934
for handling nonuse specifically

2397
01:24:27,934 --> 01:24:29,799
to requested proof of use,

2398
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:31,156
because the good research.

2399
01:24:31,156 --> 01:24:33,190
Well the more common services could

2400
01:24:33,250 --> 01:24:35,056
not be performed during the pandemic

2401
01:24:35,056 --> 01:24:36,666
due to perhaps the government

2402
01:24:36,666 --> 01:24:38,416
regulations that affect the ability

2403
01:24:38,416 --> 01:24:40,604
of the service is being performed,

2404
01:24:40,604 --> 01:24:40,996
that's.

2405
01:24:40,996 --> 01:24:43,348
Whole separate scheme where we have

2406
01:24:43,348 --> 01:24:45,196
procedures for evaluating those claims

2407
01:24:45,196 --> 01:24:47,284
and certain statements that have to

2408
01:24:47,345 --> 01:24:48,947
be made to conclude an audit.

2409
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:51,085
However, we also do have a time

2410
01:24:51,085 --> 01:24:53,220
where once an audit is started.

2411
01:24:53,220 --> 01:24:55,530
If an unused claim under the ordinary

2412
01:24:55,530 --> 01:24:57,498
non use rules is being made,

2413
01:24:57,500 --> 01:25:00,790
a new Section 8 or 71 has to be filed.

2414
01:25:00,790 --> 01:25:02,920
A response that simply actually creates

2415
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:05,677
that States and non use claim is not

2416
01:25:05,677 --> 01:25:07,591
sufficient because you cannot file a

2417
01:25:07,651 --> 01:25:09,751
section 871 that you claim there is

2418
01:25:09,751 --> 01:25:12,310
used and Elvis needs to be like now,

2419
01:25:12,310 --> 01:25:13,666
there's actually not use.

2420
01:25:13,666 --> 01:25:16,364
You need to file a new eight or

2421
01:25:16,364 --> 01:25:19,148
section A Section 8 or 71 to make that

2422
01:25:19,148 --> 01:25:21,860
claim that Section 8 or 71 will be

2423
01:25:21,860 --> 01:25:23,935
reviewed outside of the audit review

2424
01:25:23,935 --> 01:25:26,524
and will be handled under all the

2425
01:25:26,524 --> 01:25:28,489
normal rules for excusable nonuse.

2426
01:25:28,490 --> 01:25:29,990
OK, and I have another one.

2427
01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:32,014
What if you file a renewal during the

2428
01:25:32,014 --> 01:25:33,985
regular period and you get an office action?

2429
01:25:33,990 --> 01:25:35,990
Can you show use in the grace period?

2430
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:37,418
The answer is yes because the

2431
01:25:37,418 --> 01:25:39,202
grace period is also a part of

2432
01:25:39,202 --> 01:25:40,238
the statutory filing period.

2433
01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:43,992
Alright, excellent,

2434
01:25:43,992 --> 01:25:46,240
that appears to be all that we have,

2435
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:48,249
or at least all the technology is

2436
01:25:48,249 --> 01:25:49,888
allowing to extend it this time.

2437
01:25:49,890 --> 01:25:52,138
So let's go ahead and close it out.

2438
01:25:52,140 --> 01:25:54,388
So first of all, a big thank you,

2439
01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:55,514
both you Montia answer,

2440
01:25:55,514 --> 01:25:56,357
Jordan for hosting,

2441
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,688
and for giving us all this great information

2442
01:25:58,688 --> 01:26:00,820
and would like to thank thank the crew

2443
01:26:00,820 --> 01:26:02,745
has been great in terms of making

2444
01:26:02,745 --> 01:26:04,782
sure all the tech is working properly.

2445
01:26:04,790 --> 01:26:06,750
And of course thank you to all of

2446
01:26:06,750 --> 01:26:08,439
you folks for attending today.

2447
01:26:08,440 --> 01:26:11,104
You are going to be getting a survey so

2448
01:26:11,104 --> 01:26:13,904
please take a minute or two to fill that out.

2449
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:15,751
We really do look at the results

2450
01:26:15,751 --> 01:26:17,918
and we really do want to make sure

2451
01:26:17,918 --> 01:26:19,668
we're giving you the best possible

2452
01:26:19,668 --> 01:26:21,528
webinars that we possibly can.

2453
01:26:21,530 --> 01:26:22,088
So please,

2454
01:26:22,088 --> 01:26:24,320
if you can take it a minute or

2455
01:26:24,395 --> 01:26:26,509
minute or two to fill that out.

2456
01:26:26,510 --> 01:26:29,807
I also want to just very briefly.

2457
01:26:29,810 --> 01:26:31,268
Tell you folks just let me.

2458
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:34,924
I'm going to share my screen here real quick.

2459
01:26:34,930 --> 01:26:35,226
Alright,

2460
01:26:35,226 --> 01:26:37,298
so just so everyone is aware because

2461
01:26:37,298 --> 01:26:39,347
the question always comes in is a copy

2462
01:26:39,347 --> 01:26:41,159
or a recording going to be available.

2463
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:41,988
The answer is yes,

2464
01:26:41,988 --> 01:26:44,229
you will be able to find it here on

2465
01:26:44,229 --> 01:26:45,814
the understanding the trademark post

2466
01:26:45,814 --> 01:26:47,130
registration audit program page.

2467
01:26:47,130 --> 01:26:48,480
As you can see here,

2468
01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:50,321
it's going to be posted here and

2469
01:26:50,321 --> 01:26:52,257
it's also going to be posted on

2470
01:26:52,257 --> 01:26:53,622
the trademarks webinars series page,

2471
01:26:53,630 --> 01:26:55,646
so keep an eye out for that and also

2472
01:26:55,646 --> 01:26:57,297
wanted to let you know that there

2473
01:26:57,297 --> 01:26:58,966
we have some some additional fun

2474
01:26:58,966 --> 01:27:01,060
stuff that's going to be happening

2475
01:27:01,060 --> 01:27:02,835
Commissioner Gooder is going to be

2476
01:27:02,835 --> 01:27:04,689
doing a sort of fireside chat about

2477
01:27:04,689 --> 01:27:06,484
intellectual property in the Olympics.

2478
01:27:06,490 --> 01:27:08,762
That is on June 11th and you can

2479
01:27:08,762 --> 01:27:10,695
register early to or register at

2480
01:27:10,695 --> 01:27:12,325
anytime actually before it begins

2481
01:27:12,325 --> 01:27:13,439
to attend that.

2482
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:15,645
And if you have those TMI questions,

2483
01:27:15,650 --> 01:27:18,494
by all means join us for the round table.

2484
01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:21,660
It is going to be, I believe, on the 14th.

2485
01:27:21,660 --> 01:27:22,940
Yes, on June 14th,

2486
01:27:22,940 --> 01:27:25,768
so please go ahead and sign up for that.

2487
01:27:25,770 --> 01:27:26,613
And of course,

2488
01:27:26,613 --> 01:27:28,299
obviously most of you folks on

2489
01:27:28,299 --> 01:27:30,393
this call today don't need a

2490
01:27:30,393 --> 01:27:31,446
trademark Basics bootcamp,

2491
01:27:31,450 --> 01:27:33,598
but if anybody in your organization

2492
01:27:33,598 --> 01:27:36,078
you think might want a little brush

2493
01:27:36,078 --> 01:27:38,040
up on all the trademark basics.

2494
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:38,739
By all means,

2495
01:27:38,739 --> 01:27:40,370
please sign up and join us for

2496
01:27:40,428 --> 01:27:42,098
the Trademark Basics Bootcamp or

2497
01:27:42,098 --> 01:27:43,768
maybe even recommended to some

2498
01:27:43,825 --> 01:27:45,568
of your clients just to make sure

2499
01:27:45,568 --> 01:27:47,445
that they are up to speed on all

2500
01:27:47,445 --> 01:27:48,997
the things to make your meetings

2501
01:27:48,997 --> 01:27:50,457
with them more efficient.

2502
01:27:50,460 --> 01:27:51,448
If you haven't attended,

2503
01:27:51,448 --> 01:27:53,750
it is an 8 week series and we pretty

2504
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:55,521
much cover all the basics that you

2505
01:27:55,576 --> 01:27:57,788
need to know from fundamentals all the

2506
01:27:57,788 --> 01:27:59,604
way through searching and through filing.

2507
01:27:59,604 --> 01:28:01,620
I even walked through a tease plus

2508
01:28:01,682 --> 01:28:03,628
form we talked about how to respond

2509
01:28:03,628 --> 01:28:05,637
to office action and then as you know,

2510
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:07,020
so a lot of information.

2511
01:28:07,020 --> 01:28:08,946
That Montia is an expert on.

2512
01:28:08,950 --> 01:28:10,510
We talk about here in keeping

2513
01:28:10,510 --> 01:28:11,290
your registration alive,

2514
01:28:11,290 --> 01:28:13,306
so just want to point that out as

2515
01:28:13,306 --> 01:28:14,998
another possibility of this sort of

2516
01:28:14,998 --> 01:28:16,138
educational programming that we're

2517
01:28:16,138 --> 01:28:18,158
trying to do to make sure that you

2518
01:28:18,158 --> 01:28:19,350
have all the information possible.

2519
01:28:19,350 --> 01:28:21,170
So we're going to close it out.

2520
01:28:21,170 --> 01:28:22,730
We're just about on 4:30 Eastern,

2521
01:28:22,730 --> 01:28:23,622
so thank you again.

2522
01:28:23,622 --> 01:28:24,960
Very much for being with us

2523
01:28:25,015 --> 01:28:26,467
today and thank you again to

2524
01:28:26,467 --> 01:28:28,157
Montia and to Jordan for sharing

2525
01:28:28,157 --> 01:28:29,489
their knowledge with everyone.

2526
01:28:29,490 --> 01:28:31,002
Thank you so much and have

2527
01:28:31,002 --> 01:28:32,610
a great rest of your day.