1 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:04,460 Good afternoon. 2 00:00:04,460 --> 00:00:09,049 All right welcome, welcome and thank you for joining us both in person and 3 00:00:09,049 --> 00:00:11,950 online for today's exciting event in fact I think we have 500 folks that are now 4 00:00:11,950 --> 00:00:12,950 online. 5 00:00:12,950 --> 00:00:18,610 I just heard that so welcome welcome and a special shout out to these students 6 00:00:18,610 --> 00:00:20,779 from T.C. Williams High School sitting in the front row. 7 00:00:20,779 --> 00:00:26,890 Thank you guys for joining us. 8 00:00:26,890 --> 00:00:29,910 My name is Wynn Coggins and I am the Deputy Chief Administrative Officer here at 9 00:00:29,910 --> 00:00:34,180 the USPTO and I now have the very great pleasure of introducing the 10 00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:38,170 Undersecretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property and our Director of the 11 00:00:38,170 --> 00:00:39,609 United States Patent and Trademark Office. 12 00:00:39,609 --> 00:00:43,219 He believes strongly in protecting intellectual property rights and is 13 00:00:43,219 --> 00:00:47,809 absolutely passionate about sharing the stories of inventors and of their 14 00:00:47,809 --> 00:00:51,329 inventions that are not only shaped us but shaped the world around us. 15 00:00:51,329 --> 00:00:56,489 In fact the speaker series is evidence of that passion and his desire to share 16 00:00:56,489 --> 00:00:58,230 these amazing stories. 17 00:00:58,230 --> 00:01:09,110 Ladies and gentlemen please join me in welcoming USPTO Director Andrei Iancu. 18 00:01:09,110 --> 00:01:15,170 Thanks Wynn very good to see everybody here and hello also to the folks online. 19 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:17,460 It's very good to see a great turnout. 20 00:01:17,460 --> 00:01:23,759 And for the USPTO speaker series including students from our local high school 21 00:01:23,759 --> 00:01:31,369 and once again welcome I just returned from the White House where Secretary Ross 22 00:01:31,369 --> 00:01:38,560 and I were there with President Trump quite a few members of Congress and lots 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:45,250 of musicians to sign the music Modernization Act. 24 00:01:45,250 --> 00:01:52,729 We are all about patents and trademarks here the PTO but we really are all about 25 00:01:52,729 --> 00:02:01,030 intellectual property in general and we did quite a bit of work on this very 26 00:02:01,030 --> 00:02:07,659 important copyright bill which updates the copyright laws for the digital age 27 00:02:07,659 --> 00:02:13,220 and it was a remarkable event because it was truly bipartisan. 28 00:02:13,220 --> 00:02:19,620 This major piece of legislation which took years to complete was passed by both 29 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:28,530 houses of Congress with unanimous consent from from all legislators and 30 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:31,640 copyright in particular is near and dear to our heart. 31 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:37,940 Again even though we are the Patent and Trademark Office copyright is identified 32 00:02:37,940 --> 00:02:47,180 in the Constitution along with patent protection for our inventors and it is 33 00:02:47,180 --> 00:02:53,980 about our inventors and innovation that we are here right now and to talk about 34 00:02:53,980 --> 00:03:00,920 all of that with a particular particularly successful example of such great 35 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:06,460 inventors and innovation innovation and I'll get to Dr. Johnson in just a 36 00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:07,460 minute. 37 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:13,640 But over my many years of experience both as an engineer and then as a lawyer 38 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:24,060 and now here the PTO I've seen firsthand the life changing history altering 39 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:33,920 impact that inventors and the innovation have and it is that type of activity 40 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:45,180 and that type of intellectual pursuit that has been a key driver of America's 41 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:50,370 economic and cultural development over the past 200 years. 42 00:03:50,370 --> 00:03:57,030 Ever since our founding and it will continue to drive us to be a world leading 43 00:03:57,030 --> 00:04:01,250 nation for the foreseeable future. 44 00:04:01,250 --> 00:04:08,980 So we want to recognize and indeed celebrate the brilliance of our inventors and 45 00:04:08,980 --> 00:04:13,610 the excitement of invention and the incredible benefits they all bring to our 46 00:04:13,610 --> 00:04:19,380 society and really that is what this speaker series is all about. 47 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:27,480 Because as I say often through the doors of the PTO walks our future and it is 48 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:33,849 here at the PTO at the forefront of innovation and entrepreneurship that we meet 49 00:04:33,849 --> 00:04:38,300 in our daily lives some of the most interesting people Americans who are 50 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:45,599 actively pursuing work that make the world a better place and we really want to 51 00:04:45,599 --> 00:04:51,020 give everybody who works at the PTO and the Department of Commerce the 52 00:04:51,020 --> 00:04:58,629 opportunity to meet these fascinating folks and it's that important because 53 00:04:58,629 --> 00:05:04,689 every member of the PTO team plays a vital role towards achieving our mission. 54 00:05:04,689 --> 00:05:09,889 Whether you're a patent examiner reviewing new technologies a trademark attorney 55 00:05:09,889 --> 00:05:13,840 helping businesses and entrepreneurs protect the brands that they rely on to 56 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:18,460 fund new ventures or any one of the hundreds of people here working to keep our 57 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:23,930 lights on or our computers and phones connected or our employees trained and on 58 00:05:23,930 --> 00:05:26,220 and on and on. 59 00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:32,219 This past August we kicked off the series the speakers series with Raytheon's 60 00:05:32,219 --> 00:05:37,450 Joseph Moran who is the inventor named on patent number 10 million. 61 00:05:37,450 --> 00:05:41,419 And today we are very fortunate to have with us celebrated inventor Dr. Lonnie 62 00:05:41,419 --> 00:05:43,699 Johnson. 63 00:05:43,699 --> 00:05:49,689 From an early age Dr. Johnson showed an avid and this I learned last night 64 00:05:49,689 --> 00:05:56,259 sometimes problematic and occasionally dangerous. 65 00:05:56,259 --> 00:05:58,779 Interest in technology and innovation. 66 00:05:58,779 --> 00:06:05,919 His early work included reverse engineering his sister's doll to understand how 67 00:06:05,919 --> 00:06:07,479 the eyes closed. 68 00:06:07,479 --> 00:06:13,400 I wonder if they closed after the reverse engineering experiment nearly burning 69 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,580 down his house while making rocket fuel and building a go cart out of a 70 00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:20,990 lawnmower engine and scraps. 71 00:06:20,990 --> 00:06:27,770 In 1968 he represented his high school at the Alabama science fair and won first 72 00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:32,780 prize for a compressed air powered robot he named Lennox. 73 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:35,259 Is that right? 74 00:06:35,259 --> 00:06:36,259 Lennox. 75 00:06:36,259 --> 00:06:37,259 Yes. 76 00:06:37,259 --> 00:06:42,819 And again this was 1968 and he was the only African-American student in the 77 00:06:42,819 --> 00:06:44,169 competition. 78 00:06:44,169 --> 00:06:48,360 He attended college at Tuskegee University on a math scholarship and earned his 79 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,319 master's degree in nuclear engineering. 80 00:06:51,319 --> 00:06:55,479 He then joined the U.S. Air Force where he worked on the Stealth bomber program 81 00:06:55,479 --> 00:06:59,710 and was awarded the Air Force Achievement Medal in the Air Force Commendation 82 00:06:59,710 --> 00:07:00,710 Medal. 83 00:07:00,710 --> 00:07:05,669 On two different occasions he later joined NASA winning awards for his work on 84 00:07:05,669 --> 00:07:12,719 spacecraft systems design in the meantime he worked on his own invention. 85 00:07:12,719 --> 00:07:18,229 While exploring ideas for an environmentally friendly heat pump he came up with 86 00:07:18,229 --> 00:07:24,960 the toy that changed summertime for millions of children. 87 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:32,460 So from NASA engineer and rocket scientist to the inventor and designer of the 88 00:07:32,460 --> 00:07:39,039 often drenched patented patented super soaker. 89 00:07:39,039 --> 00:07:42,860 This toy which is far less likely to burn down a house than homemade rocket fuel 90 00:07:42,860 --> 00:07:51,279 topped 200 million dollars in sales in 1991 and went on to annually rank among 91 00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:54,099 the world's top 20 best selling toys. 92 00:07:54,099 --> 00:07:59,680 In 2011 he was inducted into Alabama's Engineering Hall of Fame the first 93 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,789 African-American engineer to be so honored. 94 00:08:02,789 --> 00:08:07,279 Dr. Johnson is the founder and CEO of Johnson R & D. 95 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:12,000 Where his current work includes the Johnson thermo electrochemical converter or 96 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,540 Jaty easy by the way we love acronyms here. 97 00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:20,969 The PTO so I'm very happy that you also have an acronym for your technology. 98 00:08:20,969 --> 00:08:23,300 JTEC right. 99 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:28,490 And the development of a new solid state lithium metal battery holder of more 100 00:08:28,490 --> 00:08:30,490 than 100 United States patents. 101 00:08:30,490 --> 00:08:34,870 Dr. Johnson has worked through the USPTO throughout his career securing the 102 00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:40,970 benefit of IP protection that our nation offers inventors and entrepreneurs. 103 00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:45,330 And before and I would like to introduce Dr. Johnson to say a few words. 104 00:08:45,330 --> 00:08:52,260 But before you speak given your long relationship with the USPTO I want to give 105 00:08:52,260 --> 00:09:00,040 to you USPTO pin you have in addition to acronyms we love pins in Washington 106 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,050 D.C. 107 00:09:02,050 --> 00:09:06,010 You have several pins you can leave that on leave that you. 108 00:09:06,010 --> 00:09:23,700 He the United States flag on and we will add a USPTO pin. 109 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:27,740 Dr. Johnson. 110 00:09:27,740 --> 00:09:33,610 Well, I don't know quite what to say. 111 00:09:33,610 --> 00:09:38,210 Everyone has made a really big deal out of my being here. 112 00:09:38,210 --> 00:09:43,370 But let me tell you that for me being here is a super super big deal. 113 00:09:43,370 --> 00:09:51,670 I am literally humbled by the work that you do and the importance that that work 114 00:09:51,670 --> 00:09:56,650 has represented for me personally and the impact that it's had on my life. 115 00:09:56,650 --> 00:09:57,790 So I want thank you. 116 00:09:57,790 --> 00:10:04,820 I want to thank you for being the conscientious people who tend to the details 117 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:10,220 that make it so important that are so important rather to make sure that the 118 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:20,320 patents are indeed sound and can stand the test that invariably successful 119 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,730 patents will go through. 120 00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:28,490 It is very important that the work that you do and I just want to say thank you 121 00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:35,030 thank you for the impact that you've had on me personally as the director 122 00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:36,030 indicated. 123 00:10:36,030 --> 00:10:38,400 I started out as a very early age. 124 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:44,090 In fact if you go to the first slide I want to show an image of my robot. 125 00:10:44,090 --> 00:10:48,020 This was me in high school in 1968. 126 00:10:48,020 --> 00:10:56,580 It's not the robot. 127 00:10:56,580 --> 00:11:01,700 This was at the University of Alabama in 1968 and it was during the heart of the 128 00:11:01,700 --> 00:11:04,120 civil rights movement. 129 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:10,070 Being at the University of Alabama where Governor Wallace had stood in the door 130 00:11:10,070 --> 00:11:13,740 said no black students would attend this university. 131 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:19,420 And in that era you could imagine that was a really big deal and a huge success 132 00:11:19,420 --> 00:11:24,940 for me personally I use it wisely robots to the left there the Robby the Robot 133 00:11:24,940 --> 00:11:26,850 and the Lost in Space robot on TV. 134 00:11:26,850 --> 00:11:29,200 And I want to have my own robot. 135 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,940 I didn't know that those robots had. 136 00:11:31,940 --> 00:11:35,640 I wondered if they had people inside but I wasn't sure. 137 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,170 Thank you. 138 00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:40,740 I'm supposed to use a clicker. 139 00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:42,020 I just. 140 00:11:42,020 --> 00:11:43,020 OK. 141 00:11:43,020 --> 00:11:44,380 So that's my robot. 142 00:11:44,380 --> 00:11:47,440 What looks like eyes is actually a reel to reel tape recorder. 143 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,440 That was his memory. 144 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,380 That was the state of the art back then there was no digital technology and none 145 00:11:52,380 --> 00:11:57,270 of the things that we take for granted today is ARBs he could move his arms any 146 00:11:57,270 --> 00:11:58,780 way a human could. 147 00:11:58,780 --> 00:12:00,680 He was fully radio controlled. 148 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,810 So the antenna in the center there was functional. 149 00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:09,770 That was the antenna from my sister's walkie talkie. 150 00:12:09,770 --> 00:12:11,950 That was how I got the signals into the robot. 151 00:12:11,950 --> 00:12:16,800 I tried building electronic circuit but as a high school kid growing up in 152 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,950 Alabama there was not a lot of advice or consultants that I could go to that 153 00:12:20,950 --> 00:12:27,250 really learn how to do this so I had to literally feel my way I went on to work 154 00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:31,510 on some of the more advanced robots in fact I worked on the Galileo spacecraft 155 00:12:31,510 --> 00:12:33,000 and a number of other spacecraft. 156 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,420 But I put this one up in particular because I have an invention on Galileo and 157 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:44,750 I'm having an invention that goes to another planet and I felt like I've 158 00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:45,750 arrived. 159 00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:49,040 This is this is what I call the big fish that got away. 160 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,690 This is when this was one of my this was actually my first patent and it was one 161 00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:56,590 of the few electronic patents that I have. 162 00:12:56,590 --> 00:13:02,840 But this was based on using you know I used to use microfiche to read documents 163 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,140 back in the day. 164 00:13:04,140 --> 00:13:08,090 And I thought to myself you know the lines that form those letters could 165 00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:12,220 actually be digital ones in the blank spaces would be zeroes after the acts that 166 00:13:12,220 --> 00:13:17,320 make a digital encoder that could read binary encoding information that had been 167 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,381 photographically reduced to the point that you couldn't read it which a naked 168 00:13:21,381 --> 00:13:25,870 eye but I could read it electronically as the base technology for DVDs and CDs 169 00:13:25,870 --> 00:13:27,370 optical encoders. 170 00:13:27,370 --> 00:13:32,060 I got that patent in 1979 did not pursue it. 171 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:36,460 I was having fun working on space systems and stuff and back then I was 172 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:41,490 inventing for fun little without that the same was true that come up with a 173 00:13:41,490 --> 00:13:45,140 better mousetrap and the world would beat a path to your door. 174 00:13:45,140 --> 00:13:46,140 You've got to beat path. 175 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:50,360 You've got to find a way to get it commercialized. 176 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,240 But you know neat being the mother of invention I would go home and work on my 177 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,790 own projects and I had this idea that you know I could help solve the problem 178 00:14:00,790 --> 00:14:05,540 that freon was creating for the environment because freon was destroying the 179 00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:09,850 ozone layer which was contributing to global warming and I wanted to come up 180 00:14:09,850 --> 00:14:15,490 with the air conditioning system that did not rely on freon. 181 00:14:15,490 --> 00:14:20,031 So I was working on what I call the Johnson to heat pump device that would use 182 00:14:20,031 --> 00:14:24,690 high pressure water going at a high velocity and use a Bernoulli effect to 183 00:14:24,690 --> 00:14:29,750 create a low pressure region where it could evaporate water at low temperature 184 00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:33,400 and condense it using the kinetic energy of the moving stream of water. 185 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,970 Well let me some of these nozzles to do this and I was experimenting in my 186 00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:42,240 bathroom and shot the stream of water across the bathroom and I thought this 187 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,440 still feels really good. 188 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:44,690 It could make a really neat. 189 00:14:44,690 --> 00:14:48,540 water gun a really high powerful water power would be a lot of fun. 190 00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:52,910 So I put the hard science stuff aside and started working a toy water gun. 191 00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:57,180 And I figured that if I could generate some income I could support myself and 192 00:14:57,180 --> 00:15:04,490 become a full time inventor that worked out OK. 193 00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:11,690 But with the success of super soaker and now was to revolutionize toy water guns 194 00:15:11,690 --> 00:15:14,090 I thought to use I'd like to beat a king of all toy guns and there were these 195 00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:20,390 other toy guns out of the dart guns and I started working on Nerf guns and I 196 00:15:20,390 --> 00:15:23,380 designed guns that worked a lot better than what Hasbro had on the market at the 197 00:15:23,380 --> 00:15:24,380 time. 198 00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:28,100 I went in presented those at Hasbro and I feel like I'm I think in hindsight 199 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,090 intimidating them into doing a deal with me because they are the ahead shell 200 00:15:31,090 --> 00:15:32,990 space they were selling their product. 201 00:15:32,990 --> 00:15:37,300 They didn't really need what I had but they didn't want me to take it to someone 202 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:38,300 else. 203 00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:43,220 So they know the license agreement and so the success of the nerf product 204 00:15:43,220 --> 00:15:47,130 landing in strike land in fact were based on my products. 205 00:15:47,130 --> 00:15:51,550 But that income enabled me to go back to my passion which was the hard science 206 00:15:51,550 --> 00:15:57,570 stuff focused on thermodynamics energy technology in particular the Johnson 207 00:15:57,570 --> 00:15:58,570 tube. 208 00:15:58,570 --> 00:16:03,660 I'm sorry the Jim Johnson electromechanical systems as a company set up to 209 00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:09,990 develop the j tech which is the Johnson thermal electro Kimmell bird are now one 210 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:15,130 might wonder why I put Johnson in so many titles in my inventions. 211 00:16:15,130 --> 00:16:21,560 Well historically if you go back to my childhood in the 60s historically I was 212 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,030 made aware that there are a lot of innovations that African Americans have come 213 00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:28,000 up with contributions that we've made. 214 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,970 We credit for those inventions have been taken by other people and I want to 215 00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:37,070 make sure that I stuck my name only so that people will recognize that 216 00:16:37,070 --> 00:16:40,100 African-Americans make contributions to America as well. 217 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,610 And that was important to me. 218 00:16:42,610 --> 00:16:44,760 The battery technology I'm also developing. 219 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,980 Let me talk about the heat engine for a minute. 220 00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:57,270 So when you look at when you think about fuel cells the bank OK. 221 00:16:57,270 --> 00:17:00,970 It's based on fuel cell technology. 222 00:17:00,970 --> 00:17:04,089 So all the engines work on this basic principle of compressing or working fluid 223 00:17:04,089 --> 00:17:06,650 at low temperature and heating it up and expanding it. 224 00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:07,650 TIM Sure. 225 00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:10,019 All engines work on that basic principle. 226 00:17:10,019 --> 00:17:15,949 And my engine is no different in that sense but I use membrane electrode 227 00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:19,129 assemblies that are used in fuel cells except in my engine. 228 00:17:19,129 --> 00:17:22,220 Know I use hydrogen as a working fluid. 229 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:25,270 There's no oxygen in the water just pure hydrogen. 230 00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:29,269 I use a pressure difference to force hydrogen through the membrane like what is 231 00:17:29,269 --> 00:17:30,820 simply to generate a voltage. 232 00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:32,759 Well it turns out that process is reversible. 233 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:37,299 You can actually apply Bodas to a membrane electrode simply pump hydrogen from 234 00:17:37,299 --> 00:17:43,370 low pressure in a high pressure the voltage that you get from such a system is a 235 00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:47,380 linear function of temperature so that if you have had temps you're going to 236 00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:50,499 have a high voltage if you get low Tenshi going to have a low voltage. 237 00:17:50,499 --> 00:17:54,129 So while you have an engine you can compress the low temperature low voltage low 238 00:17:54,129 --> 00:17:58,789 energy and expand it had temperature Habbo to high energy get more energy out 239 00:17:58,789 --> 00:18:01,640 during the expansion and use some of that energy to drive the compression 240 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,360 process and still have it coming out. 241 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:09,720 All engines of work based on that basic principle my engine J GTECH actually 242 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:17,010 operates on what's called a Ericksen thermodynamic cycle which is a Conall 243 00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:18,820 equivalent cycle. 244 00:18:18,820 --> 00:18:23,760 I want to tell you that when I first proposed this engine I actually made a 245 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,889 presentation at the Office of Naval Research and I got kicked out. 246 00:18:27,889 --> 00:18:33,350 They accused me of presenting an idea that would not work and was wasting their 247 00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:34,350 time. 248 00:18:34,350 --> 00:18:39,419 This is the honest truth I got kicked out I submitted proposals a lot of SBIR 249 00:18:39,419 --> 00:18:41,660 proposals and things like that. 250 00:18:41,660 --> 00:18:46,260 The response was that you know people didn't understand that they claim that it 251 00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:49,559 was a perpetual motion machine and other things that were just physically not 252 00:18:49,559 --> 00:18:54,270 possible even getting the patent issued on it was a bit of a challenge. 253 00:18:54,270 --> 00:18:57,460 But we managed to overcome that one fortunately because someone here was paying 254 00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:04,370 attention. 255 00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:08,460 So you know the idea is that the data to go through this book. 256 00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:12,289 What's important about it is that it does not have any moving mechanical part 257 00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:16,419 gets it is a terminal unending engine and it offers efficiency levels said 258 00:19:16,419 --> 00:19:20,450 existing mechanical engines will not be able to achieve. 259 00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:25,309 I started at Mission the fact that I know all obstacles I faced in trying to get 260 00:19:25,309 --> 00:19:31,100 it developed or get resources to get investments to get people interested in and 261 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:35,870 understand it after all of that eventually I started getting some traction and 262 00:19:35,870 --> 00:19:38,030 Popular Mechanics magazine has a lot. 263 00:19:38,030 --> 00:19:48,820 This engine is one of the top 10 Worldchanging inventions. 264 00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:49,820 Put this chart up. 265 00:19:49,820 --> 00:19:53,100 This is a all the way to the left. 266 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:56,429 There you can see as the Internet's internal combustion engine in the and with 267 00:19:56,429 --> 00:20:00,559 the j tech operating on waste heat from the internal combustion engine you can 268 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:05,220 see the efficiency levels that are in excess of 50 percent overall conversion 269 00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:06,220 efficiency. 270 00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:07,220 That's it. 271 00:20:07,220 --> 00:20:10,409 You can get all of the waste heat from the internal combustion engine into the 272 00:20:10,409 --> 00:20:15,419 GTECH the curve that you're seeing at the plot top blue curve. 273 00:20:15,419 --> 00:20:18,350 That's the kind of efficiency curve. 274 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:20,809 So it looks like how would exceed Karno. 275 00:20:20,809 --> 00:20:21,809 Right. 276 00:20:21,809 --> 00:20:23,549 But that's not really what's going on. 277 00:20:23,549 --> 00:20:26,929 It turns out that the internal combustion engine is actually burning fuel all 278 00:20:26,929 --> 00:20:30,640 the way over there to the right at very hot temperatures so the potential is 279 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:31,640 high. 280 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,909 So you can get good quality waste heat from the. 281 00:20:33,909 --> 00:20:38,700 Taking factory waste heat Kimche is where the engine that combination is 282 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:39,700 located. 283 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:45,850 So not exceeding Connell's but I am exceeding the efficiency of the existing 284 00:20:45,850 --> 00:20:46,850 internal combustion engines. 285 00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:54,789 In fact it's ATEC that second column of vertical bar represent a Geck take J. 286 00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:58,460 Operating on solar energy at about 85 percent of Karno. 287 00:20:58,460 --> 00:21:04,120 So based on our modeling analysis that is that it's not outside the realm of 288 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:07,940 possibilities so it could be one of the most efficient developments in the 289 00:21:07,940 --> 00:21:08,940 world. 290 00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:13,360 The this is an example of the engine being used for solar power generation a 291 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:17,200 high temperatures part of the engine could be located on a tower where you focus 292 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,509 energy solar energy and the low temperature of course to maintain your ambient 293 00:21:21,509 --> 00:21:25,879 so that you have that temperature difference which is generating power. 294 00:21:25,879 --> 00:21:28,610 A lot of the energy I don't think I want to describe this chart 295 00:21:28,610 --> 00:21:32,149 I'll just say that it's a lot more efficient if you can get a renewable energy 296 00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:37,509 source that is created as electricity and supply to an electric vehicle. 297 00:21:37,509 --> 00:21:44,659 You don't have the all the losses along the pipeline of trying to develop a fuel 298 00:21:44,659 --> 00:21:48,649 refine it distributed get it into the car and then have most of the energy 299 00:21:48,649 --> 00:21:53,650 dissipated as heat working on solid state batteries and goes forward. 300 00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:59,080 This is a we're on the lithium air cell that I'm presently working on. 301 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,409 And I'll just stop here because I'm sure the director has some questions but 302 00:22:02,409 --> 00:22:09,289 I'll say that this cell whereas conventional lithium ion batteries are about 200 303 00:22:09,289 --> 00:22:13,749 watt hours per kilogram in terms of energy specific energy the cell will achieve 304 00:22:13,749 --> 00:22:17,169 about close to 2000 Watrous per kilogram. 305 00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:22,809 It changes the game and in fact imagining an electric vehicle going today we can 306 00:22:22,809 --> 00:22:24,240 go only a few hundred miles. 307 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,399 Imagine being able to go thousands of miles on a single charge. 308 00:22:27,399 --> 00:22:39,529 So these are the kind of things I'm working on at this point. 309 00:22:39,529 --> 00:22:42,929 Great, thank you. 310 00:22:42,929 --> 00:22:52,350 Really my first question is can we combine the JTEC high temperature fuel cell 311 00:22:52,350 --> 00:23:03,240 with a super soaker so that the parents can instantaneously dry the carpets. 312 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,639 Because I think my carpet my son's 21 and I think my carpets at home are still 313 00:23:06,639 --> 00:23:10,830 wet from all those years ago. 314 00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:13,299 It's really nice. 315 00:23:13,299 --> 00:23:15,690 It's nothing like me. 316 00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:17,929 It is like that. 317 00:23:17,929 --> 00:23:21,539 It's like a perfect combination. 318 00:23:21,539 --> 00:23:24,379 So talk a little bit. 319 00:23:24,379 --> 00:23:31,149 Let's I want to ask you about the importance of having patents in all of the 320 00:23:31,149 --> 00:23:37,110 work that you have done and perhaps you can address that in a super soaker 321 00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:44,950 context whether it helped you there but if not there in any other context as 322 00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:45,950 well. 323 00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:47,980 Well actually a super soaker has a rich history. 324 00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:50,519 And you know that was the original patent. 325 00:23:50,519 --> 00:23:53,539 There was a whole series of follow on patents. 326 00:23:53,539 --> 00:23:57,059 And of course the dart gun patents that came after that. 327 00:23:57,059 --> 00:24:04,360 When the when the water gun first hit the market the first year it came out. 328 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:10,270 It literally was flying off of the toy store store shelves by word of mouth. 329 00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:14,350 There was no TV commercial no advertisements soon as one kid in the neighborhood 330 00:24:14,350 --> 00:24:15,350 got one. 331 00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:16,409 Everybody wanted to get one. 332 00:24:16,409 --> 00:24:19,519 So we knew it was going to be successful. 333 00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:24,749 We ended up putting it on TV and other companies saw that we were making money 334 00:24:24,749 --> 00:24:28,100 making these guns and so they started making them too. 335 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:33,520 We were able to use the patent the original patent to enforce it against the 336 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,159 company we actually filed a lawsuit and took them to court and when the other 337 00:24:37,159 --> 00:24:43,440 companies saw that they pull back and pretty much we won that Salt's lawsuit and 338 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,360 we didn't have to fight anybody else. 339 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:49,399 So it was you know and by the time they figured out how to get around our 340 00:24:49,399 --> 00:24:54,960 patents we pretty much establish ourselves in the market. 341 00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:00,909 And how did you manage to make contacts you did not make all of these at a high 342 00:25:00,909 --> 00:25:02,739 level production yourself right here. 343 00:25:02,739 --> 00:25:04,860 You worked with a toy company. 344 00:25:04,860 --> 00:25:10,309 How did you get in touch with the toy company and enter into that agreement 345 00:25:10,309 --> 00:25:13,610 upfront for the production of a super soaker. 346 00:25:13,610 --> 00:25:15,470 Well that was a long story. 347 00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:20,970 It is a long story and quite a long time to tell it was a long time experience 348 00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:25,929 that I got the idea in 1982 for the water to go. 349 00:25:25,929 --> 00:25:30,520 It wasn't until 1992 that it became a successful product. 350 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,590 In the meantime I was it was. 351 00:25:32,590 --> 00:25:36,260 There were a lot of false starts different companies I was talking to were 352 00:25:36,260 --> 00:25:37,260 producing. 353 00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:38,260 I wrote a lot of letters. 354 00:25:38,260 --> 00:25:42,809 One of them was to Hasbro who basically ended up with it but they rejected the 355 00:25:42,809 --> 00:25:45,669 idea. 356 00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:49,260 The there were other companies where I had false starts I wanted to manufacture 357 00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:54,869 it myself at one point when I figured out and got it backwards forwards what it 358 00:25:54,869 --> 00:25:58,320 would cost to set up a production line as a captain in the air force. 359 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,409 And that was not something I would be able to do. 360 00:26:01,409 --> 00:26:04,619 And I also realized that there was a lot about business that I didn't 361 00:26:04,619 --> 00:26:05,619 understand. 362 00:26:05,619 --> 00:26:10,519 So at that point I realized that it would be smart to find a licensee someone 363 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:15,440 who would know how to execute it properly and make it a profitable product. 364 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,789 And then there were a lot of false starts met several companies I talk to most 365 00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:22,549 of them liked the product but they failed in the execution. 366 00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:24,210 I ended up getting the rights back. 367 00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:30,220 And eventually by aiding the people they lay on me a toy fair in New York and 368 00:26:30,220 --> 00:26:36,399 was his story earlier about when I met the vice president of the company and was 369 00:26:36,399 --> 00:26:40,860 telling me I had this toy gun invention started describe it describing it to him 370 00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:45,360 he said well I can't review it now we were at a major trade show talking to 371 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,200 buyers for our product. 372 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,220 But my headquarters is in Philadelphia a few area in the area. 373 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:54,100 Love to talk to you about your invention and your idea. 374 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,070 And I said Great okay I'll see you in Philadelphia. 375 00:26:57,070 --> 00:27:00,799 As I was getting up you said don't make a special trip. 376 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:07,480 I went home and the last company I've been talking to I had not got my prototype 377 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,440 back and they were having problems even with their model shop. 378 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,179 So I had to make a new gun and this was the first time I actually put the bottle 379 00:27:15,179 --> 00:27:19,639 on top and actually had a large volume of water in it up until the end it was 380 00:27:19,639 --> 00:27:23,769 all inside the body of the gun it was all glued together basically. 381 00:27:23,769 --> 00:27:28,559 And but it took me a couple of weeks to make the next generation. 382 00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:33,649 And when I got it finished I picked up the phone and told me their office and I 383 00:27:33,649 --> 00:27:40,510 said I'm going to be in the area next week but still don't make us special. 384 00:27:40,510 --> 00:27:48,379 But I made a special trip and it was classic you know I was there I was sitting 385 00:27:48,379 --> 00:27:52,659 outside and I remember the glass window I was outside in the reception area. 386 00:27:52,659 --> 00:27:56,299 The receptionist was on the other side of class and I said there seems like it 387 00:27:56,299 --> 00:28:00,529 was hours waiting to be called because the president of the company was there 388 00:28:00,529 --> 00:28:03,519 the vice president and the management staff. 389 00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:07,090 They were having meetings and I had to wait until they were ready for me and so 390 00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:09,919 it was really classic in that sense. 391 00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:14,639 Eventually they called me and asked me what I had and opened up my suitcase 392 00:28:14,639 --> 00:28:16,950 pulled the gun out and pumped it up. 393 00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:24,340 I had water in it and fire fired across the conference room and the president of 394 00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:27,639 the company said Wow. 395 00:28:27,639 --> 00:28:31,749 And then and they had manufactured water guns before but they never seen 396 00:28:31,749 --> 00:28:35,239 anything perform like that and they got excited and then the brainstorming 397 00:28:35,239 --> 00:28:38,440 started and they started talking about how they could get into production what 398 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,240 kind of price would they have. 399 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,029 And at that point I realized that I captured the imagination and I basically 400 00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:50,149 just kind of stepped back and let them go at it because it felt like it was in 401 00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:52,960 your hands at that point and the rest is history. 402 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,539 It became very successful. 403 00:28:54,539 --> 00:28:58,610 Did you have a patent at the time you first met with absolutely. 404 00:28:58,610 --> 00:29:04,009 In hindsight I'm convinced that if I had not had a patent contract I ended up 405 00:29:04,009 --> 00:29:05,619 with would not have happened. 406 00:29:05,619 --> 00:29:07,019 There's no way. 407 00:29:07,019 --> 00:29:13,320 I've seen some things they've done to other inventors. 408 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,080 Fortunately I could see it from the inside. 409 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,190 But you know I worked closely with Laramie and continued to make other versions 410 00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:25,700 of the product refinements and so the intricate mechanisms were different 411 00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:27,340 variations on it. 412 00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:33,549 It evolved to a pretty extensive plan by the way. 413 00:29:33,549 --> 00:29:36,739 We're going to have the audience asked some questions in a few minutes and you 414 00:29:36,739 --> 00:29:40,390 should all get ready students ready. 415 00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:46,700 Okay so at that time did you have another job when you were shopping around your 416 00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:48,029 time. 417 00:29:48,029 --> 00:29:51,139 I was active duty in the military was in the Air Force. 418 00:29:51,139 --> 00:29:59,159 I was in Omaha Nebraska at Strategic Air Command Headquarters and those were 419 00:29:59,159 --> 00:30:03,080 those were the 80s when one false start after another. 420 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:09,380 I met the people that layer me after I got out of the Air Force. 421 00:30:09,380 --> 00:30:13,860 And I initially got out of the Air Force with the water gun was one of the 422 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:17,919 project but I had like five other projects and I felt like OK I got the odds in 423 00:30:17,919 --> 00:30:18,919 my favor. 424 00:30:18,919 --> 00:30:20,880 One of these have to be successful. 425 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,830 At the request separation from the military six months isn't it in advance. 426 00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:26,830 Yes. 427 00:30:26,830 --> 00:30:28,879 That was a requirement as an officer. 428 00:30:28,879 --> 00:30:33,700 And so as those six months rolled around one by one those projects ended up 429 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:34,850 getting delayed. 430 00:30:34,850 --> 00:30:36,870 One problem after another. 431 00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:41,600 And in the end it ended up falling flat on my face I had to get out of the Air 432 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,890 Force so I had no job. 433 00:30:43,890 --> 00:30:46,940 Be living in base housing which me and I had no home. 434 00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:50,990 I had a family to support. 435 00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:53,210 And I can tell you that was a very stressful time. 436 00:30:53,210 --> 00:31:01,090 But what was important about that was the clear intent of watching going out on 437 00:31:01,090 --> 00:31:02,090 their own. 438 00:31:02,090 --> 00:31:07,059 And I was able to reach out to the people at JPL. 439 00:31:07,059 --> 00:31:08,450 And they welcomed me back fortunately. 440 00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:16,639 So I went back to NASA and soon as I got stabilized again footing started again 441 00:31:16,639 --> 00:31:19,960 with this time super soaker. 442 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:26,369 I'd wait until I started getting some income before I left. 443 00:31:26,369 --> 00:31:32,299 Talk a little bit about by the way the way sometimes these things work. 444 00:31:32,299 --> 00:31:37,229 I've experienced being on the other side of this type of an interview. 445 00:31:37,229 --> 00:31:42,870 And sometimes the interviewers the reporters give the questions ahead of time 446 00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:45,739 and you're expecting a response of time so you can work together. 447 00:31:45,739 --> 00:31:50,220 I tried that with Dr. Johnson yesterday and work so well. 448 00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:53,679 I said that I might ask you this question. 449 00:31:53,679 --> 00:31:57,100 He says well you know be careful. 450 00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:00,000 You never know what I'm going to say. 451 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,710 So I'm a little concerned nevertheless. 452 00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:13,679 So talk a little bit about what role failure has had in your career. 453 00:32:13,679 --> 00:32:21,090 Was it a you did say that you had some false starts and you fell flat a couple 454 00:32:21,090 --> 00:32:23,019 of times. 455 00:32:23,019 --> 00:32:25,090 So talk about a bit about that. 456 00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:27,950 And could you have done it without. 457 00:32:27,950 --> 00:32:35,679 What made you persevere through all that. 458 00:32:35,679 --> 00:32:40,630 When you said that I was thinking about a different question but that's OK. 459 00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:41,630 We can also do that. 460 00:32:41,630 --> 00:32:42,630 What question should I ask. 461 00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:51,490 I will address the other one buddy in a minute. 462 00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:58,809 OK let me ask you this one first. 463 00:32:58,809 --> 00:33:01,249 Failure plays a role. 464 00:33:01,249 --> 00:33:08,519 You know I mention when I when I was going to manufacture the product myself and 465 00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:13,580 I got a response from the injection molding company that was going to cost 466 00:33:13,580 --> 00:33:18,590 hundred thousand dollars to get the first hundred guns off no 4000 guns off the 467 00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:21,190 production line to think 200 dollars for water. 468 00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:23,080 Who's going to pay that. 469 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:31,119 You know so it at that point it didn't make sense to try and pursue it right 470 00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:34,630 because nobody's going to pay that much for water. 471 00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:35,880 But I was so. 472 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,360 One could have said OK this is not going to work. 473 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,899 I need to do something different. 474 00:33:39,899 --> 00:33:43,529 But rather than accept that you know I could look around and see that there were 475 00:33:43,529 --> 00:33:45,200 other products out there. 476 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,070 I realize that you know there were some things I didn't know and didn't 477 00:33:49,070 --> 00:33:50,070 understand. 478 00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:56,289 So I decided that's when I just had license but it was an opportunity to learn 479 00:33:56,289 --> 00:34:01,929 what it what it came down to but also within another opportunity another path of 480 00:34:01,929 --> 00:34:10,609 failure possibly because one of the things that investors worry about a lot is 481 00:34:10,609 --> 00:34:12,179 you know will someone steal my idea. 482 00:34:12,179 --> 00:34:15,619 Will they just take it and run with it and leave me out. 483 00:34:15,619 --> 00:34:23,649 And I have experienced that I've experienced it in a very real sense. 484 00:34:23,649 --> 00:34:27,899 But I was willing to take the risk because one I knew that there were some 485 00:34:27,899 --> 00:34:30,530 things I needed to learn. 486 00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:35,290 And to also knew that if nobody knew about my idea there was no way I was going 487 00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:36,379 to make any money. 488 00:34:36,379 --> 00:34:39,429 You know it could be successful if nobody knew about it. 489 00:34:39,429 --> 00:34:44,760 So you know I decided that it was worth the risk and if things did go wrong I 490 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,030 would at least learn something and that people use them. 491 00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:49,629 Well my next idea. 492 00:34:49,629 --> 00:34:54,210 But the idea of giving up never really occurred to me. 493 00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:57,200 It just didn't occur to me. 494 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,319 The question that I thought you were going to ask about was you know how do we 495 00:35:02,319 --> 00:35:03,559 stimulate our youth. 496 00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:07,849 And what happens to new man. 497 00:35:07,849 --> 00:35:11,180 One of the challenges that we face. 498 00:35:11,180 --> 00:35:17,079 Is the fact that we're we tend to be conservative without children we want to 499 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:22,109 protect them and we tend to steer away from risk. 500 00:35:22,109 --> 00:35:27,859 I was fortunate in hindsight maybe my parents were just too busy to pay 501 00:35:27,859 --> 00:35:28,859 attention. 502 00:35:28,859 --> 00:35:32,890 But I don't think that was the case because I literally when I was building the 503 00:35:32,890 --> 00:35:33,890 robot it was in my mother's kitchen. 504 00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:38,240 And she had a small kitchen and that robot had parts all over the place. 505 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:40,549 I must've taken up half the kitchen. 506 00:35:40,549 --> 00:35:48,330 But also when I was mixing the rocket fuel it was in the kitchen and and go into 507 00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:49,500 the library to fit in. 508 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:50,500 Yeah. 509 00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:52,380 And this recipe I was interested in rocket Siawash. 510 00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:56,180 President Kennedy when he talked about putting a man on the moon before the 511 00:35:56,180 --> 00:36:01,819 decade without him I was all into rockets and so I was mixing the rocket fuel. 512 00:36:01,819 --> 00:36:07,130 Following the directions and been mixed and made this wasn't my first time. 513 00:36:07,130 --> 00:36:13,190 I got pretty pretty good at it but also when I was on the stove and it was 514 00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:18,099 melting down becomes just surp like material that you pour into the body of the 515 00:36:18,099 --> 00:36:19,099 rocket right. 516 00:36:19,099 --> 00:36:25,771 Well it overheated a little bit and as soon as I saw that spark I knew that it 517 00:36:25,771 --> 00:36:29,180 was no way I could because it's solid propellant it's just they're reacting with 518 00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:30,180 itself. 519 00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:32,220 I knew that there was no way I was going to put it out. 520 00:36:32,220 --> 00:36:36,359 The only thing I do was back up and the smoke got so thick I couldn't see my 521 00:36:36,359 --> 00:36:38,750 hands this close to my face that was that. 522 00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:43,240 Flames were shooting out of the pod you know and it was just crazy. 523 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:48,740 And when it eventually clear cleared there were a few small holes hole burns in 524 00:36:48,740 --> 00:36:52,920 the kitchen chairs but the kitchen didn't catch fire. 525 00:36:52,920 --> 00:37:00,350 And of course I was scared to death but when my dad came home he looked at me 526 00:37:00,350 --> 00:37:06,331 and he said you don't have to mix that outside from now on and he and they 527 00:37:06,331 --> 00:37:10,650 bought me a hot plate. 528 00:37:10,650 --> 00:37:19,900 So being able to tolerate quirky kids who do things that are crazy sometimes 529 00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:23,470 independent thinking it's hard for adults to accept. 530 00:37:23,470 --> 00:37:30,359 And sometimes I think I'll show that kids who really break the rules and think 531 00:37:30,359 --> 00:37:35,970 outside of the box and do things that are sometimes unbecoming. 532 00:37:35,970 --> 00:37:41,599 A lot of them end up in trouble and in serious trouble. 533 00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:45,950 One story I like the tell sometimes you know my brother took some of my rocket 534 00:37:45,950 --> 00:37:47,220 fuel to school. 535 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:54,520 It was not me but it ended up in math class right. 536 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,641 And being the studious student that I was when my name came over the P.A. system 537 00:37:59,641 --> 00:38:01,589 Lonnie Johnson report the principal's office. 538 00:38:01,589 --> 00:38:04,090 I knew I was in trouble for what. 539 00:38:04,090 --> 00:38:08,059 I had no idea when I got there that was my brother with some of his friends a 540 00:38:08,059 --> 00:38:13,780 bit some of my rocket fuel on the hallway in school and the police was there. 541 00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:21,910 They cause you know I'm just I said I was trying to explain that I hadn't done 542 00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:27,020 anything but I was the manufacturer. 543 00:38:27,020 --> 00:38:30,840 No in fact I was the bomb builder so they accused us of trying to blow up the 544 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,880 school and they took us all down to the police station and they were crying 545 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,360 scared to death. 546 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,600 And I was trying to explain that it was just rocket propelled and it was not a 547 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:48,490 bomb and you know and the detective was say OK well he was taking it all with a 548 00:38:48,490 --> 00:38:49,490 grain of salt. 549 00:38:49,490 --> 00:38:52,970 And then they actually got results from the laboratory that they actually 550 00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:58,010 analyzed the material and it came back and he started reciting the ingredients 551 00:38:58,010 --> 00:39:00,460 that were in the propellant. 552 00:39:00,460 --> 00:39:01,930 Right. 553 00:39:01,930 --> 00:39:10,690 Reverse engineered it really impressed at how sophisticated they were. 554 00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:13,930 And then as I told you it wasn't rocket it wasn't a bomb it was just rocket 555 00:39:13,930 --> 00:39:14,930 propellant. 556 00:39:14,930 --> 00:39:18,210 And he said Yeah we have to change it from trying to blow up the school to 557 00:39:18,210 --> 00:39:19,210 arson. 558 00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:27,550 I'm like oh my god I got my whole future my whole ideas about who I wanted to be 559 00:39:27,550 --> 00:39:31,619 what it was just bad news. 560 00:39:31,619 --> 00:39:35,480 Eventually the detective called up my high school principal and asked what 561 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,480 should I do with him. 562 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,710 And he said send them home. 563 00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:40,520 And that was the end of it. 564 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:47,130 So I would not be sitting here if adults in my generation had not been as 565 00:39:47,130 --> 00:39:49,940 tolerant. 566 00:39:49,940 --> 00:39:55,550 Ok so I guess the lesson is that I go home and say Mom and Dad I've got to blow 567 00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:56,839 up the kids. 568 00:39:56,839 --> 00:40:00,359 I was at the PTO today to celebrate great. 569 00:40:00,359 --> 00:40:05,349 You got to be tolerant. 570 00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:06,349 That's a great story though. 571 00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:11,260 There are many many stories like that and there are many inventors who would say 572 00:40:11,260 --> 00:40:16,550 that it's a shame that kids are no longer allowed to be kids nowadays and the 573 00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:21,270 chemistry sets we give them nowadays are so safe and proper and secure. 574 00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:24,400 It's hard to experiment with real stuff. 575 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,400 OK. 576 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,039 Questions from the audience. 577 00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:31,349 Yes ma'am. 578 00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:39,640 Second for a microphone yet. 579 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,590 So on the path from vision to fruition I'm curious to know if you have an 580 00:40:44,590 --> 00:40:48,740 opinion in regard to whether there's some least effective advice and most 581 00:40:48,740 --> 00:40:52,480 effective advice most of group life. 582 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,480 Yeah. 583 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,380 In order to progress from having a vision to realizing the vision whether there 584 00:40:57,380 --> 00:41:00,450 is something that you've been told or that you think is the least effective 585 00:41:00,450 --> 00:41:04,520 advice and something that's the most effective vice. 586 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,650 Yeah that was one bit of advice that I got. 587 00:41:08,650 --> 00:41:13,280 I don't know if I could call that advice early on. 588 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,789 I remember I was at the airforce rocket propulsion laboratory. 589 00:41:15,789 --> 00:41:24,960 It was there for space and I was talking to a scientist about the heat pump the 590 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,589 jouncing tube to pump thing that the precursor to the Super Soaker. 591 00:41:30,589 --> 00:41:33,950 And I was telling him I want to be an independent inventor. 592 00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:40,119 And he said guys like celebrities you know. 593 00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:46,750 But if that's really what you want to do I wish you a lot of help which means 594 00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:51,289 that I didn't quite understand it at the time. 595 00:41:51,289 --> 00:41:57,760 But certainly you know you don't really succeed achieve success without a lot of 596 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,609 help without people believing in you without taking people taking risks along 597 00:42:01,609 --> 00:42:04,430 with you. 598 00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:08,339 Getting people to understand what you're trying to do you can you know you 599 00:42:08,339 --> 00:42:11,500 really don't get there by yourself. 600 00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:17,450 So but the other bit of advice I would give it and it's based on my experience 601 00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:22,630 is the most important thing you can do is persevere by far. 602 00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:28,410 I mean and there's no set recipe or process because every invention is different 603 00:42:28,410 --> 00:42:32,410 it's different market different device different technology and it's a 604 00:42:32,410 --> 00:42:38,880 combination of things that particularly for an independent inventor coming from 605 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:45,670 outside of a situation it really does come down to that you know the problem you 606 00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:50,100 have with large companies is that you the companies typically have engineers on 607 00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:55,490 staff whose job it is to come up with innovation come up with new products and 608 00:42:55,490 --> 00:43:00,660 so forth and so someone coming out in from the outside they got to go tell the 609 00:43:00,660 --> 00:43:03,609 boss that hey this guy came up with something that's better than I could come up 610 00:43:03,609 --> 00:43:04,609 with. 611 00:43:04,609 --> 00:43:07,130 And most people don't want to do that. 612 00:43:07,130 --> 00:43:09,320 So it's it's it is difficult. 613 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,630 And typically you're going in at a middle management level where we're going to 614 00:43:13,630 --> 00:43:14,630 face that kind of scenario. 615 00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:20,039 So you've got to really have something that's going to make a difference or 616 00:43:20,039 --> 00:43:23,430 you've got to do it yourself and a lot of times people in fact companies don't 617 00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:29,090 have the vision to see what you see as an inventor. 618 00:43:29,090 --> 00:43:34,589 And so it's hard to capture their imagination so perseverance is really the one 619 00:43:34,589 --> 00:43:44,480 key element that I think is consistent and does work. 620 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:51,750 I wanted to use perhaps the j tech device as an example for a wider question. 621 00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:57,100 I'm curious because I know that the JPL there was work on several electrics as 622 00:43:57,100 --> 00:43:58,100 well. 623 00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:02,670 And you rightly mentioned that some of the quality of heat. 624 00:44:02,670 --> 00:44:07,520 Everybody wants to scavenge what is supposedly free energy but by the time you 625 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,450 get to scavenge it it's kind of degraded. 626 00:44:10,450 --> 00:44:14,530 And I think BMW for a while I don't know if they ever realized that they were 627 00:44:14,530 --> 00:44:19,190 talking about putting a thermal electric device on their engine to capture some 628 00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:20,190 energy. 629 00:44:20,190 --> 00:44:28,950 So I'm wondering what your vision of the scope of these heat scavengers is and 630 00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:36,010 where you see the really effective devices coming along and in the larger 631 00:44:36,010 --> 00:44:44,170 picture of invention how you progress whether you have sort of people that you 632 00:44:44,170 --> 00:44:47,029 regularly go to to bounce ideas off of. 633 00:44:47,029 --> 00:44:53,029 To get out of your own head and how you work right now in terms of the inventive 634 00:44:53,029 --> 00:45:01,060 space a series of questions could be audio visual guys to put up my charts put 635 00:45:01,060 --> 00:45:07,420 up the whole array of charts because the ones that were pulled up earlier I 636 00:45:07,420 --> 00:45:20,000 thought I might need to root for go down further to the whole array of things. 637 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,339 Go up. 638 00:45:23,339 --> 00:45:30,010 I don't see it. 639 00:45:30,010 --> 00:45:39,990 So there was a chart that I was thinking that may have included in the air that 640 00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:48,809 shows that if you look at the amount of waste that's produced around the world. 641 00:45:48,809 --> 00:45:52,869 And look at the temperature at which it's available because you're going to be 642 00:45:52,869 --> 00:45:54,000 limited by the Konno. 643 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,670 It's kind of potential. 644 00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:59,960 It turns out that you could add Konno conversion efficiency. 645 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:09,210 It's about 47 electrical power and I said that's a lot cheaper take. 646 00:46:09,210 --> 00:46:17,040 If I had added 70 percent efficient I took 70 percent of that and came over and 647 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:24,109 a amount of electricity and I looked at the cost of energy from petroleum as a 648 00:46:24,109 --> 00:46:25,529 source. 649 00:46:25,529 --> 00:46:27,190 And I did a comparison. 650 00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:33,089 It turned out that in worldwide waste heat at Conille potential meaning that 651 00:46:33,089 --> 00:46:36,529 even if it's at lower temperature and it's limited in terms of how much you can 652 00:46:36,529 --> 00:46:42,529 actually get power from it it turns out that there is a hundred no one thousand 653 00:46:42,529 --> 00:46:48,970 nine hundred trillion dollars worth of electricity available from waste heat 654 00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:49,970 around the world. 655 00:46:49,970 --> 00:46:51,840 That's a lot of waste heat a lot of energy. 656 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,480 So the GTECH really could have a profound impact if it could really effectively 657 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,559 use that waste heat to produce power. 658 00:46:58,559 --> 00:47:01,570 So that's a source of excitement. 659 00:47:01,570 --> 00:47:03,920 There were some other questions in there. 660 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,260 So we'll come back to those. 661 00:47:05,260 --> 00:47:08,280 I want to give a few other people opportunity if we have time we'll come back. 662 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:16,260 I remember the other questions one of the students. 663 00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:19,869 Did patenting the product solely protect the intellectual property of say the 664 00:47:19,869 --> 00:47:22,190 super soaker or did it also affect the amount of revenue the product garnered. 665 00:47:22,190 --> 00:47:32,130 Yes I think you if I understood you correctly the patent we did end up enforcing 666 00:47:32,130 --> 00:47:34,180 the patent against infringers so it did. 667 00:47:34,180 --> 00:47:41,940 It was key to the success of the super soaker and particularly my success in 668 00:47:41,940 --> 00:47:50,960 terms of being able to really explore the invention and did it have a financial 669 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:51,960 impact. 670 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,000 I think part absolutely it had a financial impact. 671 00:47:55,000 --> 00:48:01,609 You know I think I may have mentioned that a number of companies realize that 672 00:48:01,609 --> 00:48:04,810 high performance water guns there was a huge market for a lot of people were 673 00:48:04,810 --> 00:48:09,920 excited about it so other companies started copying and making high performance 674 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:10,920 targets as well. 675 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,380 We took one to court and sued them using the patent as a basis for the lawsuit. 676 00:48:16,380 --> 00:48:17,980 We were able to stop them. 677 00:48:17,980 --> 00:48:21,799 We were able to use the patent to get him sanctions against companies that were 678 00:48:21,799 --> 00:48:26,120 bringing in knockoff waterlines from from China. 679 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:33,079 We will use the patents to do that and once we were able to do that of course we 680 00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:39,030 were free to pursue the market and exploit the patent and eventually as I say it 681 00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:42,980 took it took them a few years but eventually they were able to come up with 682 00:48:42,980 --> 00:48:48,520 designs that use compressed air that avoided the patent but they couldn't figure 683 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,240 out how to do it initially. 684 00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:56,359 So the patent was extremely helpful and in hindsight I could have written the 685 00:48:56,359 --> 00:49:06,210 patent a little bit different but you're right on the spot in fact. 686 00:49:06,210 --> 00:49:07,470 Yes. 687 00:49:07,470 --> 00:49:12,660 So you went from a super soaker which is definitely a consumer kind of industry 688 00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:16,880 back to what is really high tech with battery technologies. 689 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,599 Electrochemistry fuel cells. 690 00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:22,809 So in your time that you really were focused on super soaker were you 691 00:49:22,809 --> 00:49:26,180 maintaining your network in the high tech area and how did you kind of see that 692 00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:31,619 transition back from the consumer side to the high tech side. 693 00:49:31,619 --> 00:49:38,589 Well I would say that maintaining a network is probably not what I did because 694 00:49:38,589 --> 00:49:44,400 at one point I was focused on toys totally in the 90s and we were we could do 695 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,400 concept. 696 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,119 We went from concept to product design including packaging and the whole nine 697 00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:53,410 yards and we were having product manufacturing like your factory in China and my 698 00:49:53,410 --> 00:49:58,609 company was actually subcontracting to allow me to get the products developed. 699 00:49:58,609 --> 00:50:02,069 And so I was collecting royalties as well as being paid on a contractual basis 700 00:50:02,069 --> 00:50:04,339 to develop the product. 701 00:50:04,339 --> 00:50:07,440 So that worked very well and I was really focused on it. 702 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,430 I was a big get interested in energy tech. 703 00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:14,450 I was already interested in energy technology but I got started working on 704 00:50:14,450 --> 00:50:22,200 batteries in 98 time frame and maintain a focus on that technology not so much a 705 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:27,130 network of relationships but moving the technology itself forward. 706 00:50:27,130 --> 00:50:31,140 I'm not sure I mean a mission but I think the question that was asked earlier 707 00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:33,910 was about spacecraft power and so forth. 708 00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:39,760 But NASA is now looking at the J tech as a way of converting heat from 709 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:45,119 radioisotope powered spacecraft into electricity because it's a lot more 710 00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:47,110 efficient than thermally electrics. 711 00:50:47,110 --> 00:50:51,609 The auto industry I think for the most part gave up on use of electrics to 712 00:50:51,609 --> 00:50:56,369 convert heat to electricity because the materials themselves will cost effective 713 00:50:56,369 --> 00:51:02,279 Balitang added on all the other stuff to be able to convert the heat it ended up 714 00:51:02,279 --> 00:51:03,279 not cost effective. 715 00:51:03,279 --> 00:51:07,910 I think for the most part they've given up but Jake take represents a new 716 00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:13,529 opportunity to really make vehicles automobiles take internal combustion engines 717 00:51:13,529 --> 00:51:15,180 more efficient. 718 00:51:15,180 --> 00:51:17,710 Hopefully the internal combustion engines go away. 719 00:51:17,710 --> 00:51:22,549 There may be some so take will be useful industrial applications where you need 720 00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:27,030 until combustion engines but hopefully your patents are written broadly enough. 721 00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:33,000 Well hopefully you'll go internal combustion engines and cars are replaced with 722 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,130 electric vehicles because that's what we need to have happen. 723 00:51:36,130 --> 00:51:42,430 So that's why I'm working on battery technology too great and because I've spent 724 00:51:42,430 --> 00:51:45,480 the better part of this hour and looking straight at our commissioner for 725 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:46,480 trademarks. 726 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,359 It reminds me that I'm going to get in trouble if I don't ask the following 727 00:51:49,359 --> 00:51:59,730 question What role did trademarks play. 728 00:51:59,730 --> 00:52:01,151 Because it's actually a very good story right. 729 00:52:01,151 --> 00:52:03,980 The super soaker was not called Super Soaker upfront. 730 00:52:03,980 --> 00:52:04,980 Right. 731 00:52:04,980 --> 00:52:10,680 Well trademarks plate actually a very important role. 732 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:15,940 So well super soaker first came out the first year it was called trencher. 733 00:52:15,940 --> 00:52:23,180 And another inventor plainly that he owned the name trencher because he had 734 00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:29,220 trencher say so on a word he had a contact with something else but told read 735 00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:32,549 Trichy and since he hit country in the world word and the caption The hue city 736 00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:36,460 on that name and he was going to sue us and so forth and so rather than deal 737 00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:41,200 with it we changed the name to super soaker the super soaker became successful 738 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,850 and the brand was well known. 739 00:52:44,850 --> 00:52:50,069 Laramie started putting other products under the super soaker land that was not 740 00:52:50,069 --> 00:52:54,290 based on my patents and so they were trading. 741 00:52:54,290 --> 00:52:58,130 I even though my patents and my insurance they created Super Soaker. 742 00:52:58,130 --> 00:53:02,609 There were things that they were able to use the trademark because it contracted 743 00:53:02,609 --> 00:53:04,390 covered that. 744 00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:08,539 So you know obviously I was disappointed about it. 745 00:53:08,539 --> 00:53:15,299 So when I started working on nerf dart guns ha as I said you know this is an 746 00:53:15,299 --> 00:53:19,490 opportunity to learn for you lose a little bit sometimes tuition is very 747 00:53:19,490 --> 00:53:22,540 expensive. 748 00:53:22,540 --> 00:53:29,400 So when we did that when I did the dog guns I told Hasbro that OK I want a 749 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,830 subcategory you already have and they're planning on staying the shelf space. 750 00:53:32,830 --> 00:53:35,420 But I think like guns to perform very well. 751 00:53:35,420 --> 00:53:39,910 And so I'd like to have a separate category under the. 752 00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:41,760 And you can name it what you see what you like. 753 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,789 I suggest that some things are taken some other things like that. 754 00:53:44,789 --> 00:53:49,800 But it's up to you to choose which braining you like to use. 755 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:55,440 Sure enough my Dargin started doing well they had set up this subcategory called 756 00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,609 in strike and when things really started taking off I see some kids nodding Oh 757 00:54:00,609 --> 00:54:06,320 yeah I reckon they recognize strike started doing well. 758 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,849 HASPEL started putting other product under their land but they didn't pay 759 00:54:09,849 --> 00:54:14,710 royalties on and the role stream that kind of tapered off. 760 00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:17,750 They started putting other product on the line that they didn't have to pay roll 761 00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:20,339 even dark eyes the whole nine yards. 762 00:54:20,339 --> 00:54:25,450 You know the one day I went to the store and see all these guns call in strike. 763 00:54:25,450 --> 00:54:30,410 So I thought I went back and actually looked at the contract and it turned out 764 00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:32,310 indeed I had that clause in there. 765 00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:33,700 I called them up. 766 00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:38,359 They said Oh no Mr. Johnson you were misreading it misinterpreting the contract. 767 00:54:38,359 --> 00:54:40,380 That's not what it says at all. 768 00:54:40,380 --> 00:54:43,970 And they gave me an alternate definition for it. 769 00:54:43,970 --> 00:54:46,390 And this went on for about a year. 770 00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:48,260 And so finally I said OK I filed a lawsuit. 771 00:54:48,260 --> 00:54:53,599 They fought it and lost. 772 00:54:53,599 --> 00:54:58,630 How was their relationship. 773 00:54:58,630 --> 00:55:02,710 Well I really avoided me and that's exactly what I did not want to happen. 774 00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:10,380 But it turned out that the president of Hasbro to his credit said money I know 775 00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:17,040 that I and even the engineers and managers in the lawsuit. 776 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,039 They came in they were very honest very straightforward. 777 00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:21,440 It was really refreshing. 778 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,170 But there were some things that I felt like I was getting beat up. 779 00:55:24,170 --> 00:55:26,069 So it was a very stressful experience. 780 00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:38,349 But the president of the company called me and said We'd like to settle this and 781 00:55:38,349 --> 00:55:44,259 after we settle I will personally attend some of the Minters submissions 782 00:55:44,259 --> 00:55:49,990 meetings with you just to let everybody know that we're still cool. 783 00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:51,210 And I said well that's great. 784 00:55:51,210 --> 00:55:57,460 And so I ended up but along the way things started getting tight for me 785 00:55:57,460 --> 00:55:59,720 financially because I was running a company. 786 00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:06,180 His engineers working on things like that Jake taking the battery technology. 787 00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:11,319 And I wasn't getting revenue from Hasbro and so I got a call out of the blue 788 00:56:11,319 --> 00:56:13,079 from a tale. 789 00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:20,059 It turns out they were launching a product line and I didn't realize it will be 790 00:56:20,059 --> 00:56:21,059 worth a profit. 791 00:56:21,059 --> 00:56:25,430 And they ran into one of my patents and it turns out that that patent only had a 792 00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:30,210 year of life left on it and they wanted to buy it. 793 00:56:30,210 --> 00:56:33,259 And I said well I don't know if I can do that. 794 00:56:33,259 --> 00:56:36,099 I contacted my attorneys and everything they said. 795 00:56:36,099 --> 00:56:39,640 We looked at the contract it's OK for you to do this. 796 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,200 Turns out it was it. 797 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,829 But anyway a solar panel thing was like two hundred thousand dollars 250000 798 00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:51,809 something like that even though it only hit one year of life live. 799 00:56:51,809 --> 00:56:55,980 If I hadn't known that they had a whole product where this particular product 800 00:56:55,980 --> 00:57:02,589 was like the only TV promoted product and they had a lot at stake I probably 801 00:57:02,589 --> 00:57:04,690 could have gotten a lot more for it. 802 00:57:04,690 --> 00:57:13,130 But in any case trademarks played a key role. 803 00:57:13,130 --> 00:57:19,330 OK we're basically out of time unfortunately we are out of time. 804 00:57:19,330 --> 00:57:26,280 I want to give you the last words and just if you can briefly if you have some 805 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:36,200 thoughts on what could we do as a country to inspire the next generations of 806 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:43,740 Americans to be like you to to create to take the risks that are needed and to 807 00:57:43,740 --> 00:57:44,740 invent. 808 00:57:44,740 --> 00:57:52,500 Well I think that one of the things you know as I indicated you know the system 809 00:57:52,500 --> 00:58:02,130 seems to be tightening up in terms of the freedom that our kids have to explore. 810 00:58:02,130 --> 00:58:04,740 Take risk do things. 811 00:58:04,740 --> 00:58:10,559 When I was a kid there were days I could get up in the morning get on my bicycle 812 00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:17,599 and I'd be gone all day until night and then I come home and it was OK. 813 00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:25,369 But heaven forbid forbid if my daughter would do that my wife would panic and 814 00:58:25,369 --> 00:58:28,440 I'd worry too. 815 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,009 So it's hard. 816 00:58:30,009 --> 00:58:32,410 And I think I don't think things are that different. 817 00:58:32,410 --> 00:58:38,660 Hill kids I grew up in the South in Alabama and in my neighborhood. 818 00:58:38,660 --> 00:58:46,920 It was not uncommon for whites to come into the neighborhood and literally pick 819 00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:53,130 up black kids and sometimes we would not hear from them. 820 00:58:53,130 --> 00:59:00,539 I personally had an experience where I literally ran for my life in a similar scenario. 821 00:59:00,539 --> 00:59:05,890 And so even with that we were still we still had the freedom. 822 00:59:05,890 --> 00:59:14,329 But I think that the news cycle and maybe some other things cause the fear to be so 823 00:59:14,329 --> 00:59:18,230 present that we really maintain a tight rein. 824 00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:21,849 I don't think a lot of things that we see now mass shootings and things like 825 00:59:21,849 --> 00:59:23,480 that were not happening that I recall. 826 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:29,099 But there were other dangers but we've got to let our kids we've got to have got 827 00:59:29,099 --> 00:59:37,490 to be free to explore ideas and not destroy them when they make a mistake. 828 00:59:37,490 --> 00:59:38,490 Great. 829 00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:39,490 Thank you. 830 00:59:39,490 --> 00:59:40,490 You're an inspiration. 831 00:59:40,490 --> 00:59:40,496 Please join me in thanking him!